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Well, you might be ok. Some schools average them. You should have voided the first one. If you dont score at least a 513 or so some schools will question the 4th retake as well
 
DO NOT go for a 5th attempt. I think you’ve proved your point.

Most schools take the highest or most recent score. I haven’t heard of any DO schools that average scores.

Apply to all DO schools. You will land somewhere.


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I have a lower GPA and have a sub 500 first score with a 513 re-take and am sitting on two IIs right now. I'm not sure how 4 retakes will look though. Hopefully you score higher on the 4th and I'd guess you should be ok.
 
Although you might have legitimate reasons for scoring lower, adcoms are going to question your judgement. This is what the void option is for. Still, stats wise, you will be okay to get in somewhere
 
Dr.Doctor MD MPH said:
Hey everyone I'm hoping to get into DO school this cycle and have already submitted my app to over 20 schools (filled out over 14 secondaries so far)

My stats:

ORM (Texas resident, applied to all TMDSAS schools as well), just graduated from university.

cGPA 3.3
sGPA 3.2
MCAT 508 (3rd time taking... 496-->503-->508)
Reasons for taking 3 times:
1st time: extremely sick, stomach virus, still scored despite literally having to rush to the bathroom between sections to throw up. I ended my CARS and B/BS sections early just because I had to get to a bathroom.

2nd time: no excuse, I was lazy and didn't study enough, complacent with my studying from the first time

3rd time: father had a stroke just a few months before my MCAT, halted my studying until the month before because I had to take care of him (super long story, he couldn't walk straight for some time and had other health/psychological problems)

Over 500+ clinical/hospital volunteering
Over 100+ research (clinical and wetlab), 1 publication
No leadership positions

Also: I recently retook my MCAT for a 4th time (scores come out August 23rd). Before everyone jumps on me for doing this, I am confident I scored higher than a 508 and took much more time to actually study (without any personal distractions) so hopefully I will get in somewhere. I do not want to take another gap year
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A higher MCAT isn't going to salvage those GPAs. You're fine right now for DO if you apply broadly.

Your judgement leaves much to be considered though. We want candidates who make good choices.
 
Goro said:
A higher MCAT isn't going to salvage those GPAs. You're fine right now for DO if you apply broadly.

Your judgement leaves much to be considered though. We want candidates who make good choices.
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@Goro ,

Can I ask a question, when you say bad judgement, why? Why is it bad to try and raise your score? For example, if I had a 505 and wanted to raise it, and got a 508, that’s borderline acceptable for MD. However, if I wanted to try and raise it but only got a 509/510, why is that so bad?

I guess I don’t understand the logic behind demonstrating improvement.

I could understand going from 508 to 500 or lower as bad but not the other way around.

Can you shed some light on this?
 
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jczarnecki said:
@Goro ,

Can I ask a question, when you say bad judgement, why? Why is it bad to try and raise your score? For example, if I had a 505 and wanted to raise it, and got a 508, that’s borderline acceptable for MD. However, if I wanted to try and raise it but only got a 509/510, why is that so bad?

I guess I don’t understand the logic behind demonstrating improvement.

I could understand going from 508 to 500 or lower as bad but not the other way around.

Can you shed some light on this?
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1st time: extremely sick, stomach virus, still scored despite literally having to rush to the bathroom between sections to throw up. I ended my CARS and B/BS sections early just because I had to get to a bathroom.

2nd time: no excuse, I was lazy and didn't study enough, complacent with my studying from the first time

3rd time: father had a stroke just a few months before my MCAT, halted my studying until the month before because I had to take care of him (super long story, he couldn't walk straight for some time and had other health/psychological problems)

You took a high stakes, career deciding exam not once but THREE times when you were not at your best. This is not good choice making. You could have voided at any time.

Quoting the wise Homeskool: Taking the MCAT is like getting married: ideally you only do it once, and the more times you do it the worse you start looking to suitors with good judgment.
 
Goro said:
1st time: extremely sick, stomach virus, still scored despite literally having to rush to the bathroom between sections to throw up. I ended my CARS and B/BS sections early just because I had to get to a bathroom.

2nd time: no excuse, I was lazy and didn't study enough, complacent with my studying from the first time

3rd time: father had a stroke just a few months before my MCAT, halted my studying until the month before because I had to take care of him (super long story, he couldn't walk straight for some time and had other health/psychological problems)

You took a high stakes, career deciding exam not once but THREE times when you were not at your best. This is not good choice making. You could have voided at any time.

Quoting the wise Homeskool: Taking the MCAT is like getting married: ideally you only do it once, and the more times you do it the worse you start looking to suitors with good judgment.
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I’m going to respectfully disagree with this. Of course we all would like to take the MCAT once and get a 525 on our first attempt. However, taking it twice or even three times is not necessarily indicative of bad judgement. If my first score does not suffice to land an acceptance, then I believe taking it again and working on improving my score is an indication that I’m determined to pursue medicine.

Your quote about marriage is cool and all, but it’s a false equivalency. The MCAT is an obstacle that I’m trying to overcome, whereas a marriage is a commitment I make for the pursuit of my happiness. And hey; if what you’re saying is true, Trump married three times and look where that got him.


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Xanias said:
I’m going to respectfully disagree with this. Of course we all would like to take the MCAT once and get a 525 on our first attempt. However, taking it twice or even three times is not necessarily indicative of bad judgement. If my first score does not suffice to land an acceptance, then I believe taking it again and working on improving my score is an indication that I’m determined to pursue medicine.

Your quote about marriage is cool and all, but it’s a false equivalency. The MCAT is an obstacle that I’m trying to overcome, whereas a marriage is a commitment I make for the pursuit of my happiness. And hey; if what you’re saying is true, Trump married three times and look where that got him.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
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Adcoms will think otherwise. The MCAT is exam that tests both competence and judgement.

I have a colleague who would reject you outright.
 
Xanias said:
I’m going to respectfully disagree with this. Of course we all would like to take the MCAT once and get a 525 on our first attempt. However, taking it twice or even three times is not necessarily indicative of bad judgement. If my first score does not suffice to land an acceptance, then I believe taking it again and working on improving my score is an indication that I’m determined to pursue medicine.

Your quote about marriage is cool and all, but it’s a false equivalency. The MCAT is an obstacle that I’m trying to overcome, whereas a marriage is a commitment I make for the pursuit of my happiness. And hey; if what you’re saying is true, Trump married three times and look where that got him.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Click to expand...
I have to agree with @Goro . You shouldnt take it till your practice scores are where you want. The OP should have moved or voided his exams. They knew especially that first time that they didnt do well
 
Goro said:
Adcoms will think otherwise. The MCAT is exam that tests both competence and judgement.

I have a colleague who would reject you outright.
Click to expand...

Obviously your opinion trumps mine, and I agree that OP over did it by taking the exam 4 times. But persistence should count for something, this is not a quick easy exam you can take, and many give up on Med School as they can’t get through the MCAT.


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Xanias said:
Obviously your opinion trumps mine, and I agree that OP over did it by taking the exam 4 times. But persistence should count for something, this is not a quick easy exam you can take, and many give up on Med School as they can’t get through the MCAT.


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If OP is capable of better than 508, that's what they should have gotten the first or second time. Having a bad day, sure. Retake it and show us what you can do and hope you can convince someone you had a bad day the first time. Have a bad day, then follow that up by taking it again when you're not well-prepared? Then again?

That's not admirable persistence. That's Tin Cup putting the ball into the lake until he has no more balls in his bag. He earns the cheers of the movie-goer, but loses the tournament big time.
 
Xanias said:
Obviously your opinion trumps mine, and I agree that OP over did it by taking the exam 4 times. But persistence should count for something, this is not a quick easy exam you can take, and many give up on Med School as they can’t get through the MCAT.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
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It's a premed delusion that persistence has magic qualities that somehow trumps other required and important things.
 
So, why GPA reinvention is appreciated but MCAT reinvention is not. So being 2.5 GPA for 3 years, for example is not bad judgment? But if person retakes many courses and then does well in Post-bacc or SMP, he looks better than a person who decided to retake MCAT?
 
I see both sides. If he just included his scores without reasoning, I see improvement.

If he adds that he took it and there was some reason that prevented him from doing better, he could have voided. Okay. Perhaps not so great judgement.

However, at the end of the day I see a 20-30+ percentile change which is pretty solid.

But that’s the system as of now. I am sure there are people that have been accepted after 2, 3, and may be more retakes. It may not be an ideal path, perhaps add some difficulty because you have to explain yourself. But if you go up 30+ percentile, that’s a pretty solid demonstration in my mind.

Any other field, professional career, sport, etc, that would get you a promotion, extended contract, and probably a nice bonus. : )

I would have been pretty damn happy with that 508.
 
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de Ribas said:
So, why GPA reinvention is appreciated but MCAT reinvention is not. So being 2.5 GPA for 3 years, for example is not bad judgment? But if person retakes many courses and then does well in Post-bacc or SMP, he looks better than a person who decided to retake MCAT?
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Once is fine. OP is going to take it for the 4th time
 
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