ABIM Research Pathway - Residency at one institution, Fellowship at another?

[Tothepub]

Hi all, I'm an MD-PhD student interested in the ABIM research pathway (Cardiology fellowship).
Though a popular choice for MD-PhDs there isn't a lot of information on the specifics of the pathway online.

Is it possible to match to a research track residency, opt into the ABIM research pathway, and then match to another institution for fellowship + research? I understand that some PSTPs will guarantee admission into their fellowships, but others require an application (I guess at the start of PGY2?).

I assume lots of networking needs to come into play for a program to accept a resident into their fellowship with only two years of clinical training. My spouse is in residency and will need to move for their fellowship at the end of residency (not offered at home institution). So we are trying to see what options there might be to accommodate both of our fellowship preferences.

If its relevant I am at a T10 med school, High Step 1 score (lol), 20-25 basic science pubs (Neuroscience, not cards but still EP).

Does anyone have experience with this kind of arrangement?

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[dl2dp2]

You just need to ask the fellowship director of the program directly. The easier way tho is to match ABIM at the fellowship location, and then have your spouse move to you.

 

[GritsNGuts]

Yes, you can. Also applying ABIM this cycle and have spoken to tons of PSTPs...including one who is doing just that. They are applying to a fellowship at another institution. Will still be part of the ABIM pathway. Just realized that they are more interested in the research at other institutions.

 

[Z-Dimension]

Hello all, I'm in the process of beginning to look into programs now. I've been digging around the NRMP and ABIM (among other) websites to find a consolidated list of IM research programs. Do any of y'all happen to know where I could find one? Or does one have to go school by school and manually check each residency website..

 

[eteshoe]

Hello all, I'm in the process of beginning to look into programs now. I've been digging around the NRMP and ABIM (among other) websites to find a consolidated list of IM research programs. Do any of y'all happen to know where I could find one? Or does one have to go school by school and manually check each residency website..

Unfortunately that's what you have to do for IM since different programs call their research tracks different things

 

[GritsNGuts]

Hello all, I'm in the process of beginning to look into programs now. I've been digging around the NRMP and ABIM (among other) websites to find a consolidated list of IM research programs. Do any of y'all happen to know where I could find one? Or does one have to go school by school and manually check each residency website..

I'm applying this year and was kinda having the same struggle. Then, I came across this pretty solid list that the APSA has. You can sort based on specialty.

https://www.physicianscientists.org/page/pstp

 

[Z-Dimension]

I'm applying this year and was kinda having the same struggle. Then, I came across this pretty solid list that the APSA has. You can sort based on specialty.

https://www.physicianscientists.org/page/pstp

Thank you for sharing, I appreciate it! In your experience this cycle, how accurate did you find this list? Many of the updates (at least for IM) are dated 2018, so if you still found this reasonably reliable then it seems like a solid resource

 

[eteshoe]

Doximity also had a residency tool. I'm interested in hem/onc so I looked at all the major programs (sorted by status) and then looked at the percentages of graduates they sent into hem/onc.

Also for hem/onc, I just looked at every NCI-designated comprehensive cancer center. I subtracted any place I wouldn't want to live in for 4 years, and then added any programs that were known to send their residents into fellowship associated with said cancer center. It's cumbersome work but it's your career so start early.

 

[GritsNGuts]

Thank you for sharing, I appreciate it! In your experience this cycle, how accurate did you find this list? Many of the updates (at least for IM) are dated 2018, so if you still found this reasonably reliable then it seems like a solid resource

It was very accurate for me. Pretty much every program I applied to was also on the list. Some programs last being updated in like 2018 isn't a big deal to me, especially if you're mainly using it as a way to find a list of PSTPs.

 

[Z-Dimension]

Awesome, thank you for the input @GritsNGuts !

Also for hem/onc, I just looked at every NCI-designated comprehensive cancer center. I subtracted any place I wouldn't want to live in for 4 years, and then added any programs that were known to send their residents into fellowship associated with said cancer center. It's cumbersome work but it's your career so start early.

I am actually considering Heme/Onc as well. The NCI list of cancer centers is part of how I formed my school list for MSTP apps so that's kind of a throwback hehe

On a tangential note, how important is research fit with PIs at said institution if one is applying for ABIM/PSTP? I remember it being one of the most impactful factors for med school

If I took this list of PSTPs on the APSA website, cross-referenced it with NCI cancer centers, and eliminated programs with poor research/location fit, I'd end up with maybe ~20-25 programs. Does that sound realistic? IM has 15 singals this year, I think

 

[eteshoe]

Awesome, thank you for the input @GritsNGuts !

I am actually considering Heme/Onc as well. The NCI list of cancer centers is part of how I formed my school list for MSTP apps so that's kind of a throwback hehe

On a tangential note, how important is research fit with PIs at said institution if one is applying for ABIM/PSTP? I remember it being one of the most impactful factors for med school

If I took this list of PSTPs on the APSA website, cross-referenced it with NCI cancer centers, and eliminated programs with poor research/location fit, I'd end up with maybe ~20-25 programs. Does that sound realistic? IM has 15 singals this year, I think

I think that that's fine. I applied to like 30 PSTP and had 5 categorical programs that had strong hem/onc matches. Even with 15 signals, I've gotten a few interviews from places I didn't signal (also gotten radio silence from places I didn't signal that I would have considered if I had more signals)

 

[GritsNGuts]

Awesome, thank you for the input @GritsNGuts !

I am actually considering Heme/Onc as well. The NCI list of cancer centers is part of how I formed my school list for MSTP apps so that's kind of a throwback hehe

On a tangential note, how important is research fit with PIs at said institution if one is applying for ABIM/PSTP? I remember it being one of the most impactful factors for med school

If I took this list of PSTPs on the APSA website, cross-referenced it with NCI cancer centers, and eliminated programs with poor research/location fit, I'd end up with maybe ~20-25 programs. Does that sound realistic? IM has 15 singals this year, I think

Research fit is extremely important, definitely one of the top factors to consider. Need to make sure that there at least 3-5 labs you could see yourself working in within your general area of interest.

Other important factors to consider are structure, grant support, mentorship, salary supplement (many programs offer additional salary support during your postdoc years, but some don't), and if they're the type of program that hopes to keep their PSTPs on as faculty.

I think 20-25 is very reasonable. I applied to 15. So far 4 interviews, no rejections. We'll see how everything goes.

 

[GritsNGuts]

I think that that's fine. I applied to like 30 PSTP and had 5 categorical programs that had strong hem/onc matches. Even with 15 signals, I've gotten a few interviews from places I didn't signal (also gotten radio silence from places I didn't signal that I would have considered if I had more signals)

I took a different approach and used the 15 signals as a way to cap my programs list. Most of the places I applied to explicitly said you're unlikely to get an interview if you don't signal. It's nice to know that some programs will still extend an interview invite without a signal. Out of curiosity, were those at bigger or smaller institutions? I get the sense that smaller places aren't as serious about signals as the big places.

 

[eteshoe]

I took a different approach and used the 15 signals as a way to cap my programs list. Most of the places I applied to explicitly said you're unlikely to get an interview if you don't signal. It's nice to know that some programs will still extend an interview invite without a signal. Out of curiosity, were those at bigger or smaller institutions? I get the sense that smaller places aren't as serious about signals as the big places.

In my case, I think some of the smaller institutions are actually way more serious about the signals than bigger places. So far 1 bigger and medium program sent me invites w/o signals and 1 big name and smaller program sent me invites since I did signal them. Now some of the super high tier places for IM haven't yet started sending out invites so I'll see how it shakes out lol (I saved most of my signals for the super high ranked programs)

 

[GritsNGuts]

In my case, I think some of the smaller institutions are actually way more serious about the signals than bigger places. So far 1 bigger and medium program sent me invites w/o signals and 1 big name and smaller program sent me invites since I did signal them. Now some of the super high tier places for IM haven't yet started sending out invites so I'll see how it shakes out lol (I saved most of my signals for the super high ranked programs)

Interesting. Well I might have applied to more than 15 PSTPs if I knew I had a shot at some places without signaling lol. I guess smaller programs being serious about signaling does make sense.