ABIM Vs. Dr Salas

[DiveMD]

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http://www.doctorsjustice.com

Please read and help a peer. This is an injustice.

 

[jdh71]

Injustice? Maybe. I mean I've been critical of the ABIM for many things, but did Jimmy compile from multiple sources and give specific test questions to Dr. Arora's for his board review course or not? If he did, then he's guilty of what they accuse him. If he did not, then I'd like to see evidence he did not.

 

[markcinnn]

The only question unanswered is: is it cheating to copy and reproduce test questions from memory?

It doesn't really matter in terms of consequences since everyone signs a honesty pledge not to and a lawsuit for copyright infringement is legally justified, albeit harsh. And it doesn't sound like he denies any of it + ABIM seems to have great evidence as per its court document against him.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Calling this an injustice is an injustice. He cheated, plain and simple. Aurora Board Review was a clever scam, where people used previous test questions to study, then were asked to memorize questions and send them back, which then fed the next cycle. He cheated, was caught, and now thinks it is unfair. His legal argument was that he only signed the honesty pledge at the exam, so he didn't need to be honest beforehand because there was no specific rule telling him he couldn't cheat.

To be fair, the ABIM was actually quite generous to him. Because of all of his "good works" in PR and other islands, they modified it from a permanent ban to a 7 year ban, and if he had been following their plan, made amends, he'd be board eligible in 2019. They are much more forgiving than I.

 

[VentJockey]

Calling this an injustice is an injustice. He cheated, plain and simple. Aurora Board Review was a clever scam, where people used previous test questions to study, then were asked to memorize questions and send them back, which then fed the next cycle. He cheated, was caught, and now thinks it is unfair. His legal argument was that he only signed the honesty pledge at the exam, so he didn't need to be honest beforehand because there was no specific rule telling him he couldn't cheat.

To be fair, the ABIM was actually quite generous to him. Because of all of his "good works" in PR and other islands, they modified it from a permanent ban to a 7 year ban, and if he had been following their plan, made amends, he'd be board eligible in 2019. They are much more forgiving than I.

The ABIM gets no sympathy from me. They exist to bleed money from internists and buy expensive condos for themselves. I paid my exam fees, I know exactly what those jackasses are all about. Someone give me some Zofran.

 

[visari]

I don't know how his volunteer work and good deeds matter in this case ... He might be the best physician ever ... but it's a simple question: did he truly gather test questions and used them in the review course? if yes, then he has to bear the consequences ... Although I've never imagined I would say it, but I think ABIM was fair

 

[DiveMD]

http://media.wix.com/ugd/4b5ef9_e5fe60484587429fa27afd9f9534f607.pdf

"Plaintiff, the American Board of Internal Medicine (“ABIM”), is an unelected, self appointed,bogus "non-profit," vampire corporation; the largest of an umbrella cartel known as the American Board of Medical Specialties (ABMS) that latches itself onto the neck of every medical doctor in the United States, without any independent verification of results, accuracy or quality,demanding thousands of dollars from each physician throughout their careers for nothing in return,save the de facto right to practice their State-licensed profession, in all but the least desirable or exceptionally rare medical jobs in America"

You are missing the point. Who elected or gave these people the power to destroy someone's medical career? They already spent 700K trying to bury Dr. Salas. What are they afraid of? Why can't they release the documents that Dr. Sala's defense is requesting? Maybe they know those documents will expose the scam the ABIM(ABMS) truly is.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Simple fix: move to Oklahoma (or hopefully Michigan)...

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/862331

 

[NotAProgDirector]

http://media.wix.com/ugd/4b5ef9_e5fe60484587429fa27afd9f9534f607.pdf

"Plaintiff, the American Board of Internal Medicine (“ABIM”), is an unelected, self appointed,bogus "non-profit," vampire corporation; the largest of an umbrella cartel known as the American Board of Medical Specialties (ABMS) that latches itself onto the neck of every medical doctor in the United States, without any independent verification of results, accuracy or quality,demanding thousands of dollars from each physician throughout their careers for nothing in return,save the de facto right to practice their State-licensed profession, in all but the least desirable or exceptionally rare medical jobs in America"

You are missing the point. Who elected or gave these people the power to destroy someone's medical career? They already spent 700K trying to bury Dr. Salas. What are they afraid of? Why can't they release the documents that Dr. Sala's defense is requesting? Maybe they know those documents will expose the scam the ABIM(ABMS) truly is.

Full disclose: I have nothing to do with the ABIM. I am not part of their administrative organization. My only interaction with the ABIM is via the MOC program and being required to take the exam every ten years. Which I am due for shortly.

Is the ABIM a useful construct? That's a tough question. Overall I think there is some value to ensuring that physicians meet some minimal level of competence/knowledge. And because there is MOC and recurrent exams, it forces physicians to review and keep up to date. I would like to think that I would pass the exam if I just took it -- I go to morning report 3x per week, a bunch of other teaching conferences, and have instant access to subspecialists to answer questions and teach me. But even with all that, I'll study intensively for the exam -- and that's a good thing. On the other hand, the MOC system as initially rolled out was a disaster, the cost of all of this seems extreme, and the finances of the ABIM seem somewhat suspect (although I have spoken directly to the people that run the ABIM, and they claim that many of the claims in the Newsweek articles are without merit*)

Regardless, even if one feels the ABIM is a giant scam and of no real value, stealing exam questions is not an acceptable solution to the problem.

I am not good at reading legal pleadings. Like medical student notes, they ramble on for pages and pages and you have to hunt for the salient points. The major "documents" to which Salinas is requesting appears to be the exams themselves. The ABIM refuses to release them, as they are supposed to be confidential. They have released copies of the exams that are redacted -- so that only the questions he allegedly copied are visible. I think this is a reasonable solution -- having access to questions he did not steal seems of no benefit. They also want access to ABIM's insurance policies, presumably to figure out how much they can sue for. I can't make much sense of the other documents they are requesting -- much have to do with the Aurora prosecution. Because that settled, much of the evidence didn't get into the public record (I assume).

* I specifically asked about the condo. The Newsweek article(s) made it sound like it was this luxury flat for ABIM fat cats to hang out in. My contact at the ABIM stated that they were paying ridiculous amounts of money on hotel fees for people working (as contractors), so instead they bought a condo as it was a cheaper option. I have no idea which story is real, but the latter sounds completely plausible. I do find the existence of an "ABIM Foundation" extremely troubling, especially if any profits from the ABIM exam are funneled into the ABIM foundation which then is free to spend it's money any way it wants. I have no idea if that's true, and someone should figure that out. But stealing questions isn't the right path.

 

[Gastrapathy]

I feel that the ABIM is a morally bankrupt tail wagging the dog organization. They claim the Newsweek articles are false but can't ever rebut a specific allegation. They have zero accountability to us. That said, you sign up for their test, you play by their rules. Don't steal.

 

[VentJockey]

Yeah, I'm not endorsing stealing the test questions. But when you charge me >$1K to take a stupid exam, and run a huge racket basically extorting my entire profession, I'm just not EVER going to take your side. So if someone steals from the ABIM, and the ABIM decides to make a fuss, I'm going to defend that guy. Why? Because the ABIM is extorting this entire profession with their exams and MOC and pocketing the money for a few fat cats. Any opportunity I have to put a finger in their eye, I will. I could care less about the doctor in that situation. The fact that he has upset the ABIM makes him a hero in my book. If the ABIM wants good will, they should stop extorting us with their bull*hit exam process. My position is that anyone who wants to sue the ABIM for anything gets my support. At the very least it gives ABIM some bad publicity and hopefully a little GERD for their executives.

 

[DiveMD]

http://drwes.blogspot.com

 

[bananas85]

There is always two sides to a story like this.. and I hope a resolution is reached. I really don't know why people stress about ABIM boards so much.. or feel the need to cheat. I am a very average IM doctor, probably average resident and med student and I passed it without taking a review course or studying for it. There is no need to lose sleep over it. Out of all the exams I have taken in my life, this was probably the least stressful one cause I know even If I failed sure it would be embarrassing but I can still have a job still make money and retake it next year.

Compare that to USMLE . You "fail" and you are practically ruined.

 

[DiveMD]

There is always two sides to a story like this.. and I hope a resolution is reached. I really don't know why people stress about ABIM boards so much.. or feel the need to cheat. I am a very average IM doctor, probably average resident and med student and I passed it without taking a review course or studying for it. There is no need to lose sleep over it. Out of all the exams I have taken in my life, this was probably the least stressful one cause I know even If I failed sure it would be embarrassing but I can still have a job still make money and retake it next year.

Compare that to USMLE . You "fail" and you are practically ruined.

You are missing the point. Who gave all these boards (including ophthalmology) the unilateral authority to hold your medical license (and practice) hostage if you don't pay for the MOC? Are you happy knowing that your MOC fees are used by an un-elected group of individuals to support their lavish lifestyle? Wake up my friend.

 

[Raryn]

You are missing the point. Who gave all these boards (including ophthalmology) the unilateral authority to hold your medical license (and practice) hostage if you don't pay for the MOC? Are you happy knowing that your MOC fees are used by an un-elected group of individuals to support their lavish lifestyle? Wake up my friend.

What state requires board certification to be licensed? Last I heard, you can be licensed in all 50 states and 6 territories without even completing a full residency, much less passing the boards, much less maintaining board certification. Now, many hospitals/practices won't hire someone not BE or BC... but those are voluntary privileges, not state sanctioned. You can always open a private practice if you want to try and swing that. In addition, if you think that MOC is completely useless, go to your medical staff office and work to get the bylaws (or whatever rules govern your privileges) changed to accept alternate boards or no boards at all. If you can't do that, well, I suppose that people you work with/for disagree with you. Have fun.

And yes, the MOC system is a bit much... which is why they're making it less onerous. Our specialty societies are working with the ABIM (etc) and changes are happening, including the abolition of the q10 year exam requirement in 2018. I don't want to pay a couple hundred bucks to them every year the rest of my life either, but it's not like there's any doctors where that fee is the difference between a regular life and not being able to put food on their kids table.