about howard university

[joonkimdds]

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1159 ppl applied, 83 got accepted, 2 from in state, 81 from out of state 3.04 GPA, 2.9 sciece gpa, 15from DAT 14 from PAT.

my question is...
if people with 3.04 gpa were accepted, does that mean other 1076 people who got rejected have like 2.0 gpa and lower than 14 dat score?
Because I don't see the reason that 4.0 gpa and 30 DAT score would be rejected just because of their preferences, so the only way for me to understand this situation is that as long as u have 3.0 gpa and 15 dat score, u r guaranteed to be accepted....sounds like back up school.

 

[Bickle]

1159 ppl applied, 83 got accepted, 2 from in state, 81 from out of state 3.04 GPA, 2.9 sciece gpa, 15from DAT 14 from PAT.

my question is...
if people with 3.04 gpa were accepted, does that mean other 1076 people who got rejected have like 2.0 gpa and lower than 14 dat score?
Because I don't see the reason that 4.0 gpa and 30 DAT score would be rejected just because of their preferences, so the only way for me to understand this situation is that as long as u have 3.0 gpa and 15 dat score, u r guaranteed to be accepted....sounds like back up school.

I think your stuck in the mentalilty that schools only look at gpa and dat scores when determining who gets accepted and who doesnt. dont get me wrong, those are really important, but schools also look at other things too, such as volunteering, background, and other personal info.

 

[LSR1979]

I think your stuck in the mentalilty that schools only look at gpa and dat scores when determining who gets accepted and who doesnt. dont get me wrong, those are really important, but schools also look at other things too, such as volunteering, background, and other personal info.

...........but schools [insert HOWARD] also look at other things too, such as volunteering, background, [insert RACE], and other personal info [insert RACE again].



Let's call a spade a spade and admit that a minority student with a 3.0 and 15's across the board will undoubtedly get in before a non-minority student with a 3.5 and 20's.

You can argue with me if you like, but their acceptance numbers speak for themselves.

 

[grant555]

Personally, I won't argue the point because I have been down this road before, and it is a dead end. If you want to fill up the rest of your Sunday evening, just search "Howard University" and restrict it to the dental forums. You will get a bevy of options. My personal favorite is this one

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=162309&highlight=Howard+University

Take care and GOD bless.

 

[Bickle]

...........but schools [insert HOWARD] also look at other things too, such as volunteering, background, [insert RACE], and other personal info [insert RACE again].



Let's call a spade a spade and admit that a minority student with a 3.0 and 15's across the board will undoubtedly get in before a non-minority student with a 3.5 and 20's.

You can argue with me if you like, but their acceptance numbers speak for themselves.

No need to argue about the race thing, its true. Howard is traditionally an african american school. So it is fair to say they base their acceptances on race, is it a bad thing? I personally dont think so. The reasoning behind it is to allow more diversity in a very important profession.

Judging by your post, you dont seem to agree with Howards admission policies. Thats totally fine, but you have to remember they are a private institution and can have any admission requirements they choose. Is it fair to non minorities? I'm not sure, but its the way it is.

 

[Bickle]

And to add, I stand by my original post in saying that many schools look at other things besides gpa and dat. Its not unheard of for a school (ANY school) to accept a candidate with lower scores than another. Why? Maybe the candidate with higher scores messed up his interview, or maybe hes a complete jackass?? 😎

 

[joonkimdds]

And to add, I stand by my original post in saying that many schools look at other things besides gpa and dat. Its not unheard of for a school (ANY school) to accept a candidate with lower scores than another. Why? Maybe the candidate with higher scores messed up his interview, or maybe hes a complete jackass?? 😎

I heard that valunteer is also important, but what else? GPA + DAT + valunteer + ???
(I wonder if ??? can be my part time job, and hobby, or activities)

is there any idle valunteer hours required and where I valunteer?
I work at staples, and if I work there without getting paid(temporarily) will that also be a valunteer work?

 

[coolslugs]

I heard that valunteer is also important, but what else? GPA + DAT + valunteer + ???
(I wonder if ??? can be my part time job, and hobby, or activities)

is there any idle valunteer hours required and where I valunteer?
I work at staples, and if I work there without getting paid(temporarily) will that also be a valunteer work?

Please...it's volunteer!

 

[Dental Mom]

..........is there any idle valunteer hours required and where I valunteer? I work at staples, and if I work there without getting paid(temporarily) will that also be a valunteer work?

I think that by volunteer job, they mean volunteer for you comunity. Mentor the youth, children, be a coach, hospital ect....they want to see your comunity involment.

 

[LSR1979]

And to add, I stand by my original post in saying that many schools look at other things besides gpa and dat. Its not unheard of for a school (ANY school) to accept a candidate with lower scores than another. Why? Maybe the candidate with higher scores messed up his interview, or maybe hes a complete jackass?? 😎

I never bashed Howard for their admissions criteria. So many people get so worked up and start stuttering and blushing whenever the topic of race is brought up. I pointed out a fact that cannot be argued, and suddenly people are all but calling me a bigot. I do feel that there are intangible factors that should play *some* role in the admissions process at all schools. But I also feel that lowering admission standards to accept more minority students is bad for everybody. First, it is degrading to the minority students that had the scores to get in despite their race. It makes everybody wonder if they got in on their own merit or if they were part of a quota. Secondly, diversity is great as long as the quality of the individuals is not sacrificed to obtain it. The number of dentists in this country is already low, the last thing we want to do is release low quality dentists among the masses. I'm not saying or implying that this is the case, but you can see how it would APPEAR that in SOME cases OTHER criteria is more important than good scores at some schools. Now the "other" criteria may be that the questionable person is the dean's son, it might be a racial issue, it might be the daughter of a large donor to the school, etc. All I am saying is that the traditionally black insitutions have the lowest acceptance criteria of all dental schools in the country. They are private institutions so they are entitled to do as they wish. No question there. And they are accredited by the ADEA. These points cannot be argued. Their students must also pass the national board exams and regional licensing exams. In short, I am all about diversity as long as in doing so quality candidates are not turned away to make room for less competitive students because of racial issues. In the case of Howard and Meharry, it does not appear that this is the case. The same holds true in medicine. If you don't believe that it is MUCH easier to get into professional school as a minority, you need a wake up call.


http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2004/mcatgparaceeth.htm


These numbers don't lie. White students with the numbers of the matriculated black students wouldn't even get an interview.

 

[Bickle]

I never bashed Howard for their admissions criteria. So many people get so worked up and start stuttering and blushing whenever the topic of race is brought up. I pointed out a fact that cannot be argued, and suddenly people are all but calling me a bigot. I do feel that there are intangible factors that should play *some* role in the admissions process at all schools. But I also feel that lowering admission standards to accept more minority students is bad for everybody. First, it is degrading to the minority students that had the scores to get in despite their race. It makes everybody wonder if they got in on their own merit or if they were part of a quota. Secondly, diversity is great as long as the quality of the individuals is not sacrificed to obtain it. The number of dentists in this country is already low, the last thing we want to do is release low quality dentists among the masses. I'm not saying or implying that this is the case, but you can see how it would APPEAR that in SOME cases OTHER criteria is more important than good scores at some schools. Now the "other" criteria may be that the questionable person is the dean's son, it might be a racial issue, it might be the daughter of a large donor to the school, etc. All I am saying is that the traditionally black insitutions have the lowest acceptance criteria of all dental schools in the country. They are private institutions so they are entitled to do as they wish. No question there. And they are accredited by the ADEA. These points cannot be argued. Their students must also pass the national board exams and regional licensing exams. In short, I am all about diversity as long as in doing so quality candidates are not turned away to make room for less competitive students because of racial issues. In the case of Howard and Meharry, it does not appear that this is the case. The same holds true in medicine. If you don't believe that it is MUCH easier to get into professional school as a minority, you need a wake up call.


http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2004/mcatgparaceeth.htm


These numbers don't lie. White students with the numbers of the matriculated black students wouldn't even get an interview.

thats great, just to clarify I never said your a bigot or racist.

 

[jay228]

1159 ppl applied, 83 got accepted, 2 from in state, 81 from out of state 3.04 GPA, 2.9 sciece gpa, 15from DAT 14 from PAT.

my question is...
if people with 3.04 gpa were accepted, does that mean other 1076 people who got rejected have like 2.0 gpa and lower than 14 dat score?
Because I don't see the reason that 4.0 gpa and 30 DAT score would be rejected just because of their preferences, so the only way for me to understand this situation is that as long as u have 3.0 gpa and 15 dat score, u r guaranteed to be accepted....sounds like back up school.

oh my god are you really this ignorant of how the process works? The AVERAGE number is the AVERAGE, that means people with lower and higher numbers have been accepted and rejected. Numbers play the major factor in getting you to an interview, the overall application, the whole package if you will, determines whether you're getting in or not.

Apply to whatever school you feel like, or feel like is a backup school, no one's stopping you from anything, just shut up and go apply already.

 

[mhl397]

1159 ppl applied, 83 got accepted, 2 from in state, 81 from out of state 3.04 GPA, 2.9 sciece gpa, 15from DAT 14 from PAT.

my question is...
"sounds like back up school."

You come off as very ignorant...why don't u research your questions before you make a post.
1. www.google.com
2. type in howard university and click I'M FEELING LUCKY
3. HOLY **** it's the website
4. I have to make up steps because it's really not that hard to do this.

 

[joonkimdds]

You come off as very ignorant...why don't u research your questions before you make a post.
1. www.google.com
2. type in howard university and click I'M FEELING LUCKY
3. HOLY **** it's the website
4. I have to make up steps because it's really not that hard to do this.

Except the fact that Howard university website doesn't say "We only accept Black, that doesn't include Michael Jackson."

 

[OzDDS]

No need to argue about the race thing, its true. Howard is traditionally an african american school.

Judging by your post, you dont seem to agree with Howards admission policies. Thats totally fine, but you have to remember they are a private institution and can have any admission requirements they choose. Is it fair to non minorities? I'm not sure, but its the way it is.

Is this completly true? There has to be some sort of legal limit.. no? Just because it's a private school.. I dont see how that could really allow them to fully descriminate based just on race. Isn't there some sort of law that puts limits even on private institutions?

So your telling me that say if I started a private dental school say in Kansas. I could state that I was founding it as an asian american school.. and Because it was a private institution I could descriminate racially and legally turn down applicants who were black, white, or hispanic (anyone who wasn't asian) with higher scores and many more extracurriculars.. and admit a majority of asians just because the administration at the school wanted to? Just curious.

 

[joonkimdds]

Is this completly true? There has to be some sort of legal limit.. no? Just because it's a private school.. I dont see how that could really allow them to fully descriminate based just on race. Isn't there some sort of law that puts limits even on private institutions?

So your telling me that say if I started a private dental school say in Kansas. I could state that I was founding it as an asian american school.. and Because it was a private institution I could descriminate racially and legally turn down applicants who were black, white, or hispanic (anyone who wasn't asian) with higher scores and many more extracurriculars.. and admit a majority of asians just because the administration at the school wanted to? Just curious.

maybe you are even allowed to shoot the other race entering the door 😀

 

[Bickle]

Is this completly true? There has to be some sort of legal limit.. no? Just because it's a private school.. I dont see how that could really allow them to fully descriminate based just on race. Isn't there some sort of law that puts limits even on private institutions?

So your telling me that say if I started a private dental school say in Kansas. I could state that I was founding it as an asian american school.. and Because it was a private institution I could descriminate racially and legally turn down applicants who were black, white, or hispanic (anyone who wasn't asian) with higher scores and many more extracurriculars.. and admit a majority of asians just because the administration at the school wanted to? Just curious.

That may be a little extreme. I'm sure there are other races at Howard besides blacks. Maybe someone who actually goes there can tell us.

If you wanted to open a school that only allowed asians in, yea you might get in trouble. So why does howard favor blacks and other minorities in the dental community and get away with it?? Because they are introducing diversity into a field that isnt very diverse to begin with. I'm definitly no expert on this, so I could be wrong. But last i heard, the ADA and the ADEA have encourged diversity, and building a school just for "asians" wouldnt be looked fondly upon because asians are well represented in the dental field.

 

[Bickle]

maybe you are even allowed to shoot the other race entering the door 😀

are you a complete douche bag? or just ******ed? 😕

 

[joonkimdds]

are you a complete douche bag? or just ******ed? 😕

-_-;

 

[Dentin068]

That may be a little extreme. I'm sure there are other races at Howard besides blacks. Maybe someone who actually goes there can tell us.

If you wanted to open a school that only allowed asians in, yea you might get in trouble. So why does howard favor blacks and other minorities in the dental community and get away with it?? Because they are introducing diversity into a field that isnt very diverse to begin with. I'm definitly no expert on this, so I could be wrong. But last i heard, the ADA and the ADEA have encourged diversity, and building a school just for "asians" wouldnt be looked fondly upon because asians are well represented in the dental field.

I acknowledge the fact that the ADA and ADEA encourage diversity. And as I have indicated in my previous posts that the stats have gone up. And if those minorities cant keep up with the profession, they dont belong in the profession. Diversity should not replace the quality of students entering dental school.

 

[Bickle]

Diversity should not replace the quality of students entering dental school.

I agree.

 

[hockeydentist]

I acknowledge the fact that the ADA and ADEA encourage diversity. And as I have indicated in my previous posts that the stats have gone up. And if those minorities cant keep up with the profession, they dont belong in the profession. Diversity should not replace the quality of students entering dental school.

There seems to be a general tone that howard or meharry produce low quality dentist. In reality these schools produce dentist that pass the same boards that any other school in the US has to take.

 

[Dr. Future]

And to add, I stand by my original post in saying that many schools look at other things besides gpa and dat. Its not unheard of for a school (ANY school) to accept a candidate with lower scores than another. Why? Maybe the candidate with higher scores messed up his interview, or maybe hes a complete jackass?? 😎

I went to school with a girl that is starting at Arizona in July. She is as white as can be and her stats were 16 DAT and 3.0 gpa, yet she still got into Arizona. She had over 200 hours of shadowing because of an internship we have to complete to graduate, and she had one of those personalities that you just fall in love with her after you talk to her. It isn't all about the numbers. You could have the 4.0 and a 25 DAT and the personality of duesch bag, but that does not mean that you are going to be a better dentist than someone with lower stats. Good luck everyone!

 

[grant555]

Different schools emphasize different criteria. If great stats proved success in dentistry, then we could argue that the person who graduates at the top of the class is guaranteed to be the best dentist while the person who graduates last is doomed to fail.

We all know that these things are not true. Howard's dean addressed this head on, when he said the GPA and DAT are not all they look at. He continued by saying that the person who graduates last in the class could potentially be the best dentist.

Let's go further.

If stats were the main determinant for success, then why is SDN filled with reports of students who came into dental school with great numbers, but are now coasting along. Shouldn't they be trying to keep their stats up in order to ensure that they are going to become great dentists? Hardly.

There is another point underneath here. Dental schools don't have anything to prove to you, the applicant. It is you have something to prove to them and yourself.

If you really want to know why and how a school determines admissions' criteria, you could save time and any misunderstanding by emailing the school itself or visiting if time permits.

What determines what type of dentist you become is a by product of motivation, and the school you attend is primarily an entry point to that journey. Take care and GOD Bless.

 

[Dentin068]

Different schools emphasize different criteria. If great stats proved success in dentistry, then we could argue that the person who graduates at the top of the class is guaranteed to be the best dentist while the person who graduates last is doomed to fail.

We all know that these things are not true. Howard's dean addressed this head on, when he said the GPA and DAT are not all they look at. He continued by saying that the person who graduates last in the class could potentially be the best dentist.

Let's go further.

If stats were the main determinant for success, then why is SDN filled with reports of students who came into dental school with great numbers, but are now coasting along. Shouldn't they be trying to keep their stats up in order to ensure that they are going to become great dentists? Hardly.

There is another point underneath here. Dental schools don't have anything to prove to you, the applicant. It is you have something to prove to them and yourself.

If you really want to know why and how a school determines admissions' criteria, you could save time and any misunderstanding by emailing the school itself or visiting if time permits.

What determines what type of dentist you become is a by product of motivation, and the school you attend is primarily an entry point to that journey. Take care and GOD Bless.

I completely agree that you do not have to be on the top of your class to be the best dentist. However the exceptions that you are talking about are FEW! The overall gpa and DAT scores of the ENTIRE class of Howard and Meharry are low. They are not upto par with other dental schools. Why is that?

 

[Utes]

It's pretty clear that joonkimdds is a troll. Sounds an awful lot like ian wright to me. The guy is obviously just baiting people in every thread that he starts.

 

[grant555]

I completely agree that you do not have to be on the top of your class to be the best dentist. However the exceptions that you are talking about are FEW! The overall gpa and DAT scores of the ENTIRE class of Howard and Meharry are low. They are not upto par with other dental schools. Why is that?

Given you agree that stats don't make the best dentists, then it shouldn't matter, but the end result should.

If those students are getting through the boards and practicing, then what is the issue? Have dentists from Howard or Meharry killed anyone?

Once again, their stats don't have to live up to your expectations.

If you really want to know the answer to your question, just ask the schools themselves via email, which is probably the best way to get the questions answered. Take care and GOD bless.

 

[LSR1979]

Given you agree that stats don't make the best dentists, then it shouldn't matter, but the end result should.

If those students are getting through the boards and practicing, then what is the issue? Have dentists from Howard or Meharry killed anyone?

Once again, their stats don't have to live up to your expectations.

If you really want to know the answer to your question, just ask the schools themselves via email, which is probably the best way to get the questions answered. Take care and GOD bless.

Grant you keep avoiding the questiion at hand with remarks like "have dentists from Howard and Meharry killed anybody," etc. But you still don't seem to admit that both schools lower their admissions standards to accept minority students. Even schools like U Mich law school have admitted that they give "bonus points" to minority students on their applieations. You are a very very bright individual so I know you have to understand and believe this. It is a clear cut case of prefenential treatment that gives less qualified minority students an upper hand in the admissions process. Cut and dried, plain and simple. Just admit it.

 

[jay228]

It is a clear cut case of prefenential treatment that gives less qualified minority students an upper hand in the admissions process. Cut and dried, plain and simple. Just admit it.

lower stats does not mean less qualified. The institutions are there to better facilitate the entrance of minorities into a profession that severely lacks diversity. plain and simple.

Oh, I'm not a minority at all so it's not like I benefit or anything, but I do believe that many minorities come from perculiar set of circumstances and warrant a few bonus points or overlooks (however you wanna term it) in the stats department....

I mean, c'mon, you honestly think that those kids that had 1500+ SATs and 4.+ GPAs were guaranteed to be top-notch once out of school?

This is a stupid thread anyways, apply to Howard and Meharry if you want, don't apply there if you've got a problem, or better yet, go become wealthy, and start your own school with whatever admissions criteria you want.

 

[grant555]

Grant you keep avoiding the questiion at hand with remarks like "have dentists from Howard and Meharry killed anybody," etc. But you still don't seem to admit that both schools lower their admissions standards to accept minority students. Even schools like U Mich law school have admitted that they give "bonus points" to minority students on their applieations. You are a very very bright individual so I know you have to understand and believe this. It is a clear cut case of prefenential treatment that gives less qualified minority students an upper hand in the admissions process. Cut and dried, plain and simple. Just admit it.

I don't think they are lowering their admissions standards since their standards are set already.

Those two schools are clearly emphasizing other criteria. What may be unqualified at those schools may be supremely qualified at another.

Does that mean that everyone there is coasting along and just waiting for the 4rys to roll by on the calendar? No way, the students at Howard and Meharry are busting their asses just like all dental students are. Even if you graduate dead last in the class, you will still work hard, no doubt. Man, there is no dental school is this country that isn't hell to graduate from.

Let's play the devil's advocate game again. We all know that certain dental schools emphasize PAT, while other dental schools could care less, and I have heard admissions personnel admit this.

One applicant could have a killer PAT, but lack other qualities and still gain admission at the schools that emphasize the PAT.

Let's ask the obvious question:

How do we know what schools emphasize and do not? The breakdown can be found in the Barrons Guide to Medical and Dental Schools and also through a little personal research.

I understand your point, but I really believe that it is up to the individual to determine how competent they become in dentistry. The dental schools just introduce the terminology and basic clinical techniques. Take care and GOD bless.