ABSITE for PGY-1

[Dr JPH]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Just how important is the ABSITE for PGY-1? I was speaking with a few of my fellow surgical interns and we are really stressed about January

I am confident that my program will provide me with a solid education and give me the tools I need to be a great surgeon.

But to be a poor test taker ON TOP of feeling overwhelmed by an exam that is testing my surgical knowledge after only 6 months of internship...well, lets just say my Christmas vacation won't be all egg nog and pumpkin pie. OK, maybe more egg nog.

 

[Blade28]

21st? Isn't it held on the 4th Saturday of the month?

Don't forget the test is curved for each year...so you'll be compared with all the interns around the country. You all have 6 months' experience. 🙂

 

[gasnewby]

21st? Isn't it held on the 4th Saturday of the month?

Don't forget the test is curved for each year...so you'll be compared with all the interns around the country. You all have 6 months' experience. 🙂

i still didn't do so hot intern year. at a total workhorse program that barely addressed the absite. and then i discovered the absite review by fiser...a total lifesaver for 2nd year. the third year test is somewhat different and fiser wasn't so much help. the crappy "senior" absite review, which is the same info as the original fiser, but just less of it. gotta open the textbook for the senior exam.

 

[Castro Viejo]

Just how important is the ABSITE for PGY-1? I was speaking with a few of my fellow surgical interns and we are really stressed about January 12th.

I am confident that my program will provide me with a solid education and give me the tools I need to be a great surgeon.

But to be a poor test taker ON TOP of feeling overwhelmed by an exam that is testing my surgical knowledge after only 6 months of internship...well, lets just say my Christmas vacation won't be all egg nog and pumpkin pie. OK, maybe more egg nog.

Hmmm... Unless your program is doing something the majority of programs SHOULDN'T be doing, the ABSITE is actually on January 26th.

Your ABSITE scores as interns will probably be more of a reflection of what you graduated med school knowing. There's little you would've learned in the last few months as an intern of all things, other than to stand at attention when your Chief walks by or scurry out of the cafeteria when he walks in. 🙂

I wouldn't worry so much about it. It's curved against other like-minded interns, and so, the guys who scored in the 240s on Step 1 will probably rock the ABSITE. The guys who barely passed (what is it now? 180?) will probably be to the WAY left of the curve. You're pretty much screwed at this point anyway.

ABSITE scores are important, though. Don't let anyone tell you any different. Fellowship PDs look at these as a way of comparing you, who possibly comes from a no-name program (moi), with the scalpel jocks from MGH, Hopkins, UCSF, Duke, and Baylor.

 

[Castro Viejo]

You Gen Surg guys sure take your inservice exam seriously.

We took the OITE in November. I studied exactly zero hours, and ended up in the 58th percentile among all Ortho PGY-0 test takers (apparently interns are PGY-0, R2s are PGY-1, etc).

I'll be curious to see if anyone cares about your score. They sure didn't care about mine.

Considering the majority of questions on the OITE are probably along the lines of...

What is the heart?

a. a baboon organ
b. a funny looking shape
c. what my high school sweetheart broke the summer before college
d. the thing that pumps antibiotics to bone

I wouldn't think 58th percentile is all that great. 😆 Just kidding of course...

Seriously though, at least in my experience, fellowships looked at the ABSITE scores close enough that I was questioned about mine (scored in the 60-69th percentile most years, except for one year where I scored like a 20th percentile) or was refused an interview almost because of it... It also doesn't help if one comes from a middle-of-nowhere place and has poor scores, I think.

 

[gasnewby]

Your ABSITE scores as interns will probably be more of a reflection of what you graduated med school knowing. There's little you would've learned in the last few months as an intern of all things, other than to stand at attention when your Chief walks by or scurry out of the cafeteria when he walks in. 🙂

i know! exactly when did it become acceptable behavior for surgical interns to be seen eating in the cafeteria? seriously.

 

[gasnewby]

Considering the majority of questions on the OITE are probably along the lines of...

What is the heart?

a. a baboon organ
b. a funny looking shape
c. what my high school sweetheart broke the summer before college
d. the thing that pumps antibiotics to bone

 

[Castro Viejo]

i know! exactly when did it become acceptable behavior for surgical interns to be seen eating in the cafeteria? seriously.

Probably a year or two after the ACGME nationalized the 80-hour work week and all the lazies out there figured, "Shoot, if I'm gonna do 80-hours in the hospital a week it might as well be as a surgeon and not a baby/FP/EM doc."

The world has changed....

 

[Blade28]

i still didn't do so hot intern year. at a total workhorse program that barely addressed the absite. and then i discovered the absite review by fiser...a total lifesaver for 2nd year. the third year test is somewhat different and fiser wasn't so much help. the crappy "senior" absite review, which is the same info as the original fiser, but just less of it. gotta open the textbook for the senior exam.

What year are you in now?

 

[locitamd]

For those of us who fall asleep reading Fiser, and for whom his question book didn't prove that useful last year, any ideas on good question/test preps for the jr absite? I have Swartz' questions but if I recall correctly, they didn't reflect the absite too closely.

I've gone through past threads and really haven't come up with concrete suggestions, so anything you've got...

 

[Blade28]

For those of us who fall asleep reading Fiser, and for whom his question book didn't prove that useful last year, any ideas on good question/test preps for the jr absite? I have Swartz' questions but if I recall correctly, they didn't reflect the absite too closely.

I've gone through past threads and really haven't come up with concrete suggestions, so anything you've got...

I've used Rush's book for questions in the past...a little difficult, but good explanations.

 

[gasnewby]

pgy4

 

[gasnewby]

at least 50% of jr absite came off the top of my head b/c i knew fiser inside and out.

 

[Blade28]

at least 50% of jr absite came off the top of my head b/c i knew fiser inside and out.

I agree - his book is solid!

 

[Castro Viejo]

Fixed that for you.

Reminds me of what one of the Ortho Consults said to the ED Resident...

So the ED resident paged for an Ortho Consult. Something dumb. RUE pain with XRs showing no fracture.

Ortho calls back. The ED resident tells the Orthopod all about this patient and Ortho responds, "I'm not going to see this patient."

"Why not? You have to. I paged for an Ortho consult!"

"I don't have to do anything you tell me to do."

"Oh, and why the hell not?"

"My grades were better than yours."

It was pretty damn funny 'cause then they called me, the General Surgery Chief Resident, to tell me about the unruly Orthpod. After I stopped laughing my ass off, the ED resident asked, "So are you gonna come see the patient?"

I said, "No, but thanks... I needed a good laugh. Now I have to go pee."

 

[SLUser11]

Your ABSITE scores as interns will probably be more of a reflection of what you graduated med school knowing. There's little you would've learned in the last few months as an intern of all things.....

I wouldn't worry so much about it. It's curved against other like-minded interns, and so, the guys who scored in the 240s on Step 1 will probably rock the ABSITE......You're pretty much screwed at this point anyway.

I've put all the really inaccurate things in bold for the PGY1's benefit.

The ABSITE is a standardized test, and benefits people who test well, otherwise it's nothing like the USMLEs. And, it is absolutely not a reflection of what you graduated med school knowing. It's a reflection of how much you've read and learned so far this year, and how much you've memorized out of Fiser.

There are plenty of people who did average on Step 1, including residents who trained at my current program, that went on to score 95-99th percentile every year on the ABSITE.

As far as being screwed at this point, that's ridiculous, as the ABSITE is notoriously repetitive, and there are tons of high-yield facts that you can cram into your head before the end of January.

Every year plenty of surgery residents score poorly or mediocre on the ABSITE, and often it's because they subscribe to the before-quoted attitude.

Probably a year or two after the ACGME nationalized the 80-hour work week and all the lazies out there figured, "Shoot, if I'm gonna do 80-hours in the hospital a week it might as well be as a surgeon and not a baby/FP/EM doc."

The world has changed....

Wow. Thanks for continuing to be a cookie-cutter surgery stereotype.

at least 50% of jr absite came off the top of my head b/c i knew fiser inside and out.

This is a lot more accurate.....

 

[RajMahal]

In my life nowadays, I have replace pornography with Fiser. I'm still scared $hitle$$ for absite. There's a lot to know.

 

[Faebinder]

Don't let anyone kid you. You can live and die with the absite when you are a surgery PGY 1-3. It can bury you or resurrect you. They claim that the absite are not used to advance people in years... year right. 🙄

 

[maverick_pkg]

How is absite.org? anybody used it?

 

[Wahoos]

I have to agree with the above post. The ABSITE and the OITE are different than the USMLE. The more you read and the more questions you do, the better you will score. It is a knowledge based exam with repeated concepts each year. You have one month left, I would suggest doing old exam questions and a review book (outline), this will be high yield. The scores are important and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. One of my good friend is in the Gen Surg program and he scores in the 95th percentile each year... this score is seen by all the attendings in his program. The respect is different from the attendings once they know that you are in the 90th percentile. Plus most of the fellowships will ask for your scores. So doing well definitely works in your favor.
I have never seen an ABSITE exam, but I know from taking the OITE that our exam cover a huge area of knowledge base that is expected for a chief resident to know, in fact, in ortho, the chief takes the same exam as the intern, 275 questions total, and you are scored against your year of training as well as against everyone else who takes the exam. The OITE covers Basic scinece, biomechanics, rehab/physical therapy, trauma, pedi ortho, hand, spine, tumor, ortho disease, total joints concepts, sports medicine, shoulder/upper ext, medical legal issues, foot/ankle, etc. The difference between a 50th percentile and 90th can be as little as 15-20 questions. Very narrow margin for error. The bottom line is that you can definately rock these things if you put in the time to do review books and old questions. In fact, I know that one of the PGY2 in my program did better in their raw score than a Chief resident 2 yrs ago. Her score was in the 99th percentile and the chief scored in the 40th or so percentile for year in training.

 

[maverick_pkg]

which is a good question source for a PGY1? Heard fiser's question book is easier than the real test. Is rush the right level and tailored to a PGY1? Any good online source tailored to the junior absite?

 

[Dr. V]

I liked Absite.Org, a little pricy though at 75 bucks.

 

[maverick_pkg]

seems like there wont be enough time to do fiser completely. Taking huge amount of time per page with the huge amount of info present.

Which chapters are high yield and which ones are low yield? Wanting to know so as to be sure of doing the former and will do the latter last depending on time availability.

 

[maverick_pkg]

no advise?

 

[Winged Scapula]

High Yield (ie, lots of questions):

Hepatobiliary
Pancreas
Thyroid/Endocrine
Breast/Oncology
Critical Care
Trauma

Low(er) Yield:
Cell Biology
Transplant
Immunology


Seems like Low Yield but is really High Yield:
Surgical Subspecialties...there are questions every year, esp for Ortho and Plastics. If you get these right and your colleagues don't, your score will be better.

 

[maverick_pkg]

I thought transplant and immunology were high yield for junior absite as lot of basic science questions possible from here. Is trauma really high yield for the junior absite?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I thought transplant and immunology were high yield for junior absite as lot of basic science questions possible from here. Is trauma really high yield for the junior absite?

Don't know - I've never taken the junior ABSITE.

In the past when the exam wasn't separated, there were *some* questions on Immunology. But you asked which chapters were High Yield in Fiser and IMHO those chapters are much more detailed knowledge than you will need to know for the exam. The joke used to be that there was only one Transplant question ever asked...management of a post-op lymphocele/uret

I don't see why Trauma wouldn't be High Yield; there are still clinical scenarios on the junior exam and an awful lot of critical care basic science, surgical physiology.

 

[maverick_pkg]

Thanks Dr Cox, appreciate the help

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thanks Dr Cox, appreciate the help

Hopefully some residents will chime in who have taken the junior ABSITE and can let you know whether or not there is a difference.

 

[OTD]

There is a pretty big difference. While the Sr. Absite has it's share of basic science, it's not nearly as pervasive as it is on the Jr exam.

The Sr. exam is more clinical/technically oriented.

Absite Review was gold for Jr. review, and as I stated before I liked Absite.Org.

 

[Winged Scapula]

There is a pretty big difference. While the Sr. Absite has it's share of basic science, it's not nearly as pervasive as it is on the Jr exam.

The Sr. exam is more clinical/technically oriented.

Absite Review was gold for Jr. review, and as I stated before I liked Absite.Org.

So what chapters in Fiser's book did you think were High & Low Yield for the Junior exam?

 

[OTD]

IMO it's all pretty much high yield, none of it is too detailed for the Jr exam. There are plenty of gimmie questions if you read the review book and have participated in caring for patients.

The highest would probably be breast and anything with transcription factors/hormones and receptors (tyrosine kinase, ADP vs GDP etc).

As Dr. Cox has already pointed out, everybody is going to get "intubate" the patient with facial burns, but which gene is most responsible for male breast cancer will likely weed out a few.

 

[maxheadroom]

My integrated PRS program just stopped letting the GenSurg guys "make" our juniors take the ABSITE. I think that my performance as a third year resident had something to do with it. I decided to try to answer every question wrong. Result? Second percentile. The boss tried to give me a stern talk, but he burst out laughing part way through it and said, "You'd better kick ass on the Plastics in-service."

 

[butterfly0660]

Does anybody know about how many questions are on the ABSITE? (not an exact number, but are we talking 100 or 500?)

 

[filter07]

There are 225 questions for ABSITE.

Is it paper/pencil or computer?
How is the time divided?
Are there questions with "NOT" or "select all correct choices" or things like that?
Do we get breaks?
Where are the tests located, is it at your own hospital?
Is there a penalty for incorrect answers, like on the SAT?

How come nobody tells us any of this stuff?

 

[Winged Scapula]

There are 225 questions for ABSITE.

Is it paper/pencil or computer?

Paper/pencil.

How is the time divided?

Its not. You start at the same time and finish when you finish (as long as its before the end of the time limit).

Are there questions with "NOT" or "select all correct choices" or things like that?

No.

Do we get breaks?

None scheduled, but you can get up to use the bathroom, etc. How much independence (ie, if you are allowed to go to the bathroom without an escort) is up to your program.

Where are the tests located, is it at your own hospital?

Usually in a lecture hall, auditorium, etc. Assigned seating (so juniors with the same form of test are not sitting next to each other, etc.)

Is there a penalty for incorrect answers, like on the SAT?

No.

How come nobody tells us any of this stuff?

The information is available from ABS and your program.

And because asking questions is a sign of weakness.

 

[filter07]

Thanks for the answers.

 

[maverick_pkg]

how accurate is the level of difficulty of questions in absite.org