Abuse and religion discussed in PS

[pageantry]

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Hi, so, I'm wondering if this can ever be acceptable, and what you would do.

My issue is, I'm a fellow non-trad (hi!) and a big part of what held me back from medical school was being raised in a fringe religious background that disallowed me from pursuing science in high school. I was thrown out as a teenager (I got my GED), and was homeless off and on for several years. Besides being an explanation for my non-trad-ness, the trauma of being thrown out over issues of belief was a real obstacle I had to overcome. That said, I keep reading on here that discussing mental health issues is a big no-no.

One of the things I did to move forward was start a support group for people who have similar issues. It was well received. One of my PIs (who is pretty hep to the adcom scene) suggested I find a psychiatrist willing to supervise the group, and thereby turn it into a medical volunteering as well as leadership experience, and maybe get a LOR out of it. So I did--and I did!

In my PS, I talk about how this all inspired me (in part) to go to medical school because I understand and respect the desperate clinging to the ephemeral that happens when people have no material source of help. My goal is to return and be a rural doc.

I'm proud of my work and how far I've come. I don't dwell on the trauma or name the things that happened to me as "abuse" in my PS, (I say what happened straightforwardly and later say I started "a group to help people from backgrounds like mine"), and I don't name the religion. I also specifically gave the support group a name that wouldn't sound... judgmental. But I'm concerned.

It is certainly possible for me to write a PS that says nothing about why I'm a non-trad, and leave the details to people interested in my ECs. But if I want to tie my life story and pre-med journey all together, this is necessary.

Could anyone give me any advice on how, if at all, to address my story and work? Truly appreciated.

 

[efex101]

not a good idea IMHO as you do NOT know whom will be reading the PS/screening this is a touchy subject....

 

[pageantry]

not a good idea IMHO as you do NOT know whom will be reading the PS/screening this is a touchy subject....

Thanks for replying.
So you'd recommend not talking about it in my PS. Plenty of good reasons for that. What about the LOR and the medical volunteering/leadership hours for my EC? Just remove them too?

 

[ERK123]

I personally think this is an amazing thing to talk about as long as it is done properly. I think you also sound like a person who has demonstrated that they know how to turn the disadvantages you have faced into enormous positive opportunities. I would try to seek the advice of some people who are well connected with medical schools. I don't think SDN is always the best place to do this. You sometimes get a lot of anecdotal claims of certainty.

 

[pageantry]

I personally think this is an amazing thing to talk about as long as it is done properly. I think you also sound like a person who has demonstrated that they know how to turn the disadvantages you have faced into enormous positive opportunities. I would try to seek the advice of some people who are well connected with medical schools. I don't think SDN is always the best place to do this. You sometimes get a lot of anecdotal claims of certainty.

Thanks for your kind words. Yeah, I'm not sure. The PI I mentioned really thought if I did it properly, it was a great story. We even brainstormed for ultra-non-judgy names for the group together, specifically with this in mind. 🙂

It's possible that it really is a great PS! Or, I'm a waving red flag on roller skates.

 

[ERK123]

Thanks for your kind words. Yeah, I'm not sure. The PI I mentioned really thought if I did it properly, it was a great story. We even brainstormed for ultra-non-judgy names for the group together, specifically with this in mind. 🙂

It's possible that it really is a great PS! Or, I'm a waving red flag on roller skates.

I think it would crazy not to talk about these life events that shaped your life and passion for medicine. There should be no negative judgement about the life circumstances that you were born into but only what you make of them. It sounds like you are well on your way to doing great things for people who really need some help.

 

[Goro]

Your PS is for answering "Who am I"? and "Why Medicine"? Save the very compelling story for secondaries, which often have the prompt of "Tell us of how you overcame your biggest obstacle."

This will definitely come across better than the people who write about their getting their only C, or doing poorly on MCAT.

Hi, so, I'm wondering if this can ever be acceptable, and what you would do.

My issue is, I'm a fellow non-trad (hi!) and a big part of what held me back from medical school was being raised in a fringe religious background that disallowed me from pursuing science in high school. I was thrown out as a teenager (I got my GED), and was homeless off and on for several years. Besides being an explanation for my non-trad-ness, the trauma of being thrown out over issues of belief was a real obstacle I had to overcome. That said, I keep reading on here that discussing mental health issues is a big no-no.

One of the things I did to move forward was start a support group for people who have similar issues. It was well received. One of my PIs (who is pretty hep to the adcom scene) suggested I find a psychiatrist willing to supervise the group, and thereby turn it into a medical volunteering as well as leadership experience, and maybe get a LOR out of it. So I did--and I did!

In my PS, I talk about how this all inspired me (in part) to go to medical school because I understand and respect the desperate clinging to the ephemeral that happens when people have no material source of help. My goal is to return and be a rural doc.

I'm proud of my work and how far I've come. I don't dwell on the trauma or name the things that happened to me as "abuse" in my PS, (I say what happened straightforwardly and later say I started "a group to help people from backgrounds like mine"), and I don't name the religion. I also specifically gave the support group a name that wouldn't sound... judgmental. But I'm concerned.

It is certainly possible for me to write a PS that says nothing about why I'm a non-trad, and leave the details to people interested in my ECs. But if I want to tie my life story and pre-med journey all together, this is necessary.

Could anyone give me any advice on how, if at all, to address my story and work? Truly appreciated.

 

[DrMidlife]

I'm a bit confused by efex' response. If you're not bashing an established religion, and if the story is one of recovery or redemption, and if you no longer hold creationist (or whatever) views (possibly as evidenced by other elements in your app), then yeah, this is a great story and it could set you apart.

I'd also be skeptical about advice to get a professional involved in the support group you started. That ruins the whole point of it. Instead, see if you can find a professional willing to vouch for your work, by questioning you about it and visiting a group meeting with the permission of the other group members. Your efforts to get this started are a legitimate leadership experience. Needing adult supervision delegitimizes it.

Best of luck to you.

 

[pageantry]

Your PS is for answering "Who am I"? and "Why Medicine"? Save the very compelling story for secondaries, which often have the prompt of "Tell us of how you overcame your biggest obstacle."

This will definitely come across better than the people who write about their getting their only C, or doing poorly on MCAT.

Thanks for this encouraging response. Just checking tho, isn't it considered good form to discuss in your PS why medicine NOW if you're a non-trad? I'm not sure if I should save that for later or not..? I def do cover that question and it all ties together.

I do appreciate the implicit suggestion that maybe I shouldn't be blowing out my wallet on the first date. 🙂

 

[efex101]

my point is (as a prior adcom) that religion/sex despite the HUGE obstacle that the OP faced is just a very touchy subject and YOU DO NOT KNOW whom will be reading your PS first pass which MAY be a different adcom than the one that reviews GPA. You can still have a powerful PS w/o touching on this AND then like someone posted above for the secondaries IF there is a question about your largest struggle THEN you can go into that part of your life. this is my opinion of course and that is what I gave. opinions are like sphincters we all have one 🙂

 

[pageantry]

I'm a bit confused by efex' response. If you're not bashing an established religion, and if the story is one of recovery or redemption, and if you no longer hold creationist (or whatever) views (possibly as evidenced by other elements in your app), then yeah, this is a great story and it could set you apart.

I'd also be skeptical about advice to get a professional involved in the support group you started. That ruins the whole point of it. Instead, see if you can find a professional willing to vouch for your work, by questioning you about it and visiting a group meeting with the permission of the other group members. Your efforts to get this started are a legitimate leadership experience. Needing adult supervision delegitimizes it.

Best of luck to you.

Oh! Yes you're right. The MD is listed as my adviser, not supervisor. What you suggested is exactly how we handled it.

Anyway, thanks for the well wishes. 🙂

 

[efex101]

Thanks for replying.
So you'd recommend not talking about it in my PS. Plenty of good reasons for that. What about the LOR and the medical volunteering/leadership hours for my EC? Just remove them too?

No, would not remove the volunteering/leadership and then that may give room during interviews for an adcom to get deeper into that subject

 

[DrMidlife]

My stock recommendations on PS:

1. Get unfriendly review. Conservative old farts near retirement. Family & friends can't help you because they're not willing to hurt your feelings. (I would hope this somewhat reconciles what efex suggests with what I suggest.)

2. Kiss your ego goodbye. You might think you're a good writer but usually this is where you find out you're not that good, or you're not that good at making a sale.

You may find that a religious background is helpful, if you know how to work up a sermon.

 

[pageantry]

My stock recommendations on PS:

1. Get unfriendly review. Conservative old farts near retirement. Family & friends can't help you because they're not willing to hurt your feelings. (I would hope this somewhat reconciles what efex suggests with what I suggest.)

2. Kiss your ego goodbye. You might think you're a good writer but usually this is where you find out you're not that good, or you're not that good at making a sale.

You may find that a religious background is helpful, if you know how to work up a sermon.

That's really great advice. I can think of several people at my current university who would probably cock a high eyebrow at my PS. Crud.

 

[Darth Doc]

That's really great advice. I can think of several people at my current university who would probably cock a high eyebrow at my PS. Crud.

It's all in how much info you give in the PS. IMHO, you can make the experience as powerful without bringing a specific religion into it and probably without bringing in any religion at all. You could say something like, "I grew up in a family who's strict beliefs kept me out of school, away from a science education, ... before I was able to escape at the age of ___. I struggled to ____ but finally ____. Due to the damage to my emotions and sense of self from ____ I started a support group ___. This is meaningful to me, but I want to be able to do more..."

 

[pageantry]

Tbh, I'm so tired of trying to make my PS powerful. I mean, it was/is powerful. There's a touching death scene. But what I really want to say is, Look, this way of life really screwed me over, but I've come to recognize that for many people religion is all they have to keep them going, and I want to work with that, not against it, because I'm uniquely prepared to do so.

Therapy makes ppl boring... I did not used to be this boring...

 

[pageantry]

A question: would anyone here who identifies as conservative be willing to give my PS a glance? It's under 4k characters, pretty short, but could always be shorter. I promise to take any critiques like a champ.

 

[QofQuimica]

As a person with adcom experience, I'm also inclined to advise you to be cautious here. Anything that suggests you are in any way "damaged" and might crack under the pressures of medical training will get you noticed by adcoms all right, and not in a good way. I suggest that you focus your essay on "why medicine," and avoid going into any detail on any psych type issues you've dealt with.

Don't get me wrong; I understand where you're coming from. As a premed, you want to stand out and be unique. You want adcoms to be bowled over by how much you have to offer as a nontrad with a unique life experience. My own first PS draft was creative, cool, and fun. Most non-adcoms who read it, from my mom to my PI, thought it was great, and I'd be crazy not to use it. But it was not appropriate for this context, and after talking to some people with adcom experience, I scrapped it and wrote and used the same old boring kind of PS that everyone else writes and uses. It hurt somewhat to have to vanilla-ize myself that way, but this decision to lay aside my own ego and go with a safe/conservative essay over a cool/creative essay was the correct one. Knowing what I know now about how the admissions process works, if I could, I would advise my own premed self to not use that first essay, just like other adcoms advised me over a decade ago. They were right. Efex is right. Medicine is a conservative profession. And before you go tweaking the beards of the gray hairs, best to gain admittance to the club first.

 

[pageantry]

As a person with adcom experience, I'm also inclined to advise you to be cautious here. Anything that suggests you are in any way "damaged" and might crack under the pressures of medical training will get you noticed by adcoms all right, and not in a good way. I suggest that you focus your essay on "why medicine," and avoid going into any detail on any psych type issues you've dealt with.

Don't get me wrong; I understand where you're coming from. As a premed, you want to stand out and be unique. You want adcoms to be bowled over by how much you have to offer as a nontrad with a unique life experience. My own first PS draft was creative, cool, and fun. Most non-adcoms who read it, from my mom to my PI, thought it was great, and I'd be crazy not to use it. But it was not appropriate for this context, and after talking to some people with adcom experience, I scrapped it and wrote and used the same old boring kind of PS that everyone else writes and uses. It hurt somewhat to have to vanilla-ize myself that way, but this decision to lay aside my own ego and go with a safe/conservative essay over a cool/creative essay was the correct one. Knowing what I know now about how the admissions process works, if I could, I would advise my own premed self to not use that first essay, just like other adcoms advised me over a decade ago. They were right. Efex is right. Medicine is a conservative profession. And before you go tweaking the beards of the gray hairs, best to gain admittance to the club first.

Lol, right! I don't need to show them I'm a special snowflake. I feel secure in my special snowflake status already. And I definitely won't go into detail. I just speak straightforwardly about what happened that slowed things down and later mention I started a support group to help people with backgrounds like mine--too much?

I'm more concerned about ruffling feathers for implicating religion, really.

And if all this stuff should be avoided, for how long? Do I skirt it through interviews? I already submitted the LOR to my pre-med office, dangit.

 

[Nasrudin]

Also. Just take some pressure off yourself if possible. Imagine reading 300 unique personal statements for people applying to medicine. Describing all of the unique things that make them Powerfully....tragically...in love With this amazing profession. All of them called forth by destiny. And providence. Responding to internal stimuli. Endorsing command auditory hallucinations. Denies si/hi/or plan.

F. Psych call. I can't tell when I'm writing progress notes anymore.

 

[QofQuimica]

Also. Just take some pressure off yourself if possible. Imagine reading 300 unique personal statements for people applying to medicine. Describing all of the unique things that make them Powerfully....tragically...in love With this amazing profession. All of them called forth by destiny. And providence. Responding to internal stimuli. Endorsing command auditory hallucinations. Denies si/hi/or plan.

F. Psych call. I can't tell when I'm writing progress notes anymore.

 

[pageantry]

Also. Just take some pressure off yourself if possible. Imagine reading 300 unique personal statements for people applying to medicine. Describing all of the unique things that make them Powerfully....tragically...in love With this amazing profession. All of them called forth by destiny. And providence. Responding to internal stimuli. Endorsing command auditory hallucinations. Denies si/hi/or plan.

F. Psych call. I can't tell when I'm writing progress notes anymore.

I will completely cop to the fact that writing this PS has driven me completely f'ing mental.
Just ask me if medicine's my "calling." Go on. Do it. I won't feel a thing...

 

[Nasrudin]

I will completely cop to the fact that writing this PS has driven me completely f'ing mental.
Just ask me if medicine's my "calling." Go on. Do it. I won't feel a thing...

Haha. Just to clarify I think being a premed forces you into an aberrant state. Also, I was on call and was laughing at myself for my own inability to stop muttering ceaselessly in a endless maze of meeting people and writing about their mental states.

But I meant only that I've seen myself go through this twice now--med school and residency. And I think the personal statement is something more to not lose at than to win at. So in addition to the advice above don't sweat it too much.

It's really not unlike asking kindergarteners what they want to be when they grow up so we can relish in the cuteness of it.

I've written 2 seriously minded essays like the rest of you will. And now I think....look how cute I was....awwwww.

 

[pageantry]

Haha. Just to clarify I think being a premed forces you into an aberrant state. Also, I was on call and was laughing at myself for my own inability to stop muttering ceaselessly in a endless maze of meeting people and writing about their mental states.

But I meant only that I've seen myself go through this twice now--med school and residency. And I think the personal statement is something more to not lose at than to win at. So in addition to the advice above don't sweat it too much.

It's really not unlike asking kindergarteners what they want to be when they grow up so we can relish in the cuteness of it.

I've written 2 seriously minded essays like the rest of you will. And now I think....look how cute I was....awwwww.

Yes! Me, I've been working on this thing for almost two years now due to the well-meaning suggestion by the aforementioned PI. It's been like exposure therapy. At this point I'm like, "There is no such thing as a calling. Every single person I ever treat will die. Nobody likes being helped. No one cares about your dead father."

And then everyone here is like, "get with the program." Hey, I'm totally enlightened, man, I live in the infinite now. Get on *my* level... <--is never getting into medical school.

 

[efex101]

Q said it well and I will add this - the woe me can get taxing to the adcom (not that you are woe me fyi) after reading HUNDREDS of PS and yes for the most part these folks do go through a lot but to be honest almost every applicant has had a lot going on! after a while it makes you roll your eyes. I do agree that having someone read your PS may be helpful and you can lightly touch on subjects give us a glimpse and THEN during face to face interviews OR even in your PS you can expand SOME.