Academic Dentistry

[trypmo]

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The last dental school prof I spoke with told me that there are currently 400 open positions in academic dentistry across the States (academic dentistry = being a prof, doing research, and having a private practice as well if you want it). Empty positions for tenure-track professorships in other disciplines are nearly unheard of; there are always a ton of candidates lined up for each available slot and they have to fight for the jobs.

Why is academic dentistry thought to be such an undesirable career choice? Why do people not want to be dent school profs, especially if it's possible also to have a private practice at the same time? Is it that bad?

Perhaps nobody offers tenure anymore??
Current dent students plz help me out!

 

[no2thdk999]

1) Pay can be much less
2) You're expected to do research and publish
3) Private practice 12 hours a week won't make you rich either
4) You're not your own boss/ too much bureacracy

 

[ItsGavinC]

The above post was exactly correct. At the crux of it all is the poor income.

While it is true that empty tenure track positions may be nearly unheard of in other professions, one has to remember that for the majority of those professions, tenure and academia are the pinnacle in terms of financial well-being. Of course this isn't true for all professions, but it certainly isn't true for dentistry.

Until the academic income comes close to the private practice income, the shortage will continue. It's a simple as that.

 

[trypmo]

Ahh -- got it. Thanks!

 

[trypmo]

Do you know where I could find out more about salaries of dental professors? I'm not sure where to look first.

OR: has anyone heard an approximate figure from friends/faculty?

It can't be that much worse than other fields of academe... can it??

Originally posted by ItsGavinC

While it is true that empty tenure track positions may be nearly unheard of in other professions, one has to remember that for the majority of those professions, tenure and academia are the pinnacle in terms of financial well-being. Of course this isn't true for all professions, but it certainly isn't true for dentistry.

Hmm... I've known a ton of professors, and I've always gotten the impression that most professors' salaries are pretty much peanuts. Now I'm not sure what to think. Maybe it depends on what one calls peanuts? Or maybe it really varies among disciplines... in business school, for example, maybe profs get paid a bundle, but where I come from (sciences), going into academe means giving up the kind of salary you could earn in industry in exchange for having more independence and/or "not selling out."


Thanks guys!

 

[aphistis]

Originally posted by trypmo
Do you know where I could find out more about salaries of dental professors? I'm not sure where to look first.

OR: has anyone heard an approximate figure from friends/faculty?

It can't be that much worse than other fields of academe... can it??


Hmm... I've known a ton of professors, and I've always gotten the impression that most professors' salaries are pretty much peanuts. Now I'm not sure what to think. Maybe it depends on what one calls peanuts? Or maybe it really varies among disciplines... in business school, for example, maybe profs get paid a bundle, but where I come from (sciences), going into academe means giving up the kind of salary you could earn in industry in exchange for having more independence and/or "not selling out."

It's not so much a matter of academic dentists getting paid peanuts--I'm sure they're compensated handsomely compared to the average professor. However, academic pay does pale next to what a successful private practitioner can earn--the most recent ADA numbers I'm aware of place the average owner dentist's income at over $160,000 a year.

 

[trypmo]

Originally posted by aphistis
It's not so much a matter of academic dentists getting paid peanuts--I'm sure they're compensated handsomely compared to the average professor. However, academic pay does pale next to what a successful private practitioner can earn--the most recent ADA numbers I'm aware of place the average owner dentist's income at over $160,000 a year.

Ahh, so it's more the discrepancy rather than the actual amount that deters people. I can see that.

So is this the general concensus, then?


Well, for those of us who'd be happy with "living comfortably" vs. "living like royalty," maybe academic dentistry isn't that bad a deal (esp. if you like doing research, which I think is super FUN!). 😀

 

[no2thdk999]

Well, for those of us who'd be happy with "living comfortably" vs. "living like royalty," maybe academic dentistry isn't that bad a deal (esp. if you like doing research, which I think is super FUN!). 😀

Academic dentistry is a great opportunity if you like to teach and do research. There is a commradrie to be found among your fellow professors on a daily basis that is sorely missing in private practice. Many schools are getting more lenient in their requirement for research b/c they realize there are many great clinical professors that never want to run a statistical analysis.

Be careful though, the $ amount you think is royal now will seem pretty comfortable soon.

JMHO Rob

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by trypmo
Ahh, so it's more the discrepancy rather than the actual amount that deters people. I can see that.

So is this the general concensus, then?

I wouldn't say it's one or the other of those things. I don't think they are mutually exclusive. It's quite possible that is the total amount AND the difference possibly earned in private practice.

 

[trypmo]

Originally posted by no2thdk999
Be careful though, the $ amount you think is royal now will seem pretty comfortable soon.

JMHO Rob

I hear ya, man, and thanks for the encouraging reply! I remember that as a college student, I was happy to eat $0.99 frozen dinners and guzzle down store-brand cola, but now that I've gotten used to a higher standard (mostly thanks to my spouse, who just can't do without certain amenities), I can't see myself ever going back to that kind of lifestyle. I still buy my clothes at K-Mart, so I haven't moved up that much in the world, but I tell you what, name-brand orange juice is just so much sweeter than that reconstituted crap!

I tell myself it's because "I'm too old for that kind of lifestyle," but that's mostly bull-puckey; it's just that I really, really, really don't want to go back to the lower standard of living.

Actually, I'm getting a little scared about dent school costs and not being able to get enough in loans (all this "up to the cost of education" stuff), so I might actually have to try to get a job for a year or two first. 🙁 🙁

But I digress. Just needed to whine for a minute there. 🙂

 

[aphistis]

Originally posted by ItsGavinC
I wouldn't say it's one or the other of those things. I don't think they are mutually exclusive. It's quite possible that is the total amount AND the difference possibly earned in private practice.

I don't know, Gav; it's hard to muster many convincing arguments against an academic position that pays, say, an even $100,000 per year, especially if we discard, as you suggest, the argument of income differential.

 

[sxr71]

When you come out of school with $300,000 in loans and your $100,000 salary becomes more like $57,000 after tax, you'll see why $100,000 doesn't cut it .

You have also invested time in your profession, and your needs become greater during that time. Most people are contemplating families when they get out along with new cars and homes. I could have been making $80,000 in my current career and instead of taking on $300,000 in loans I could be making $320,000 over the next 4 years. So there are serious opportunity costs that need to be "paid back."

 

[aphistis]

Originally posted by sxr71
When you come out of school with $300,000 in loans and your $100,000 salary becomes more like $57,000 after tax, you'll see why $100,000 doesn't cut it .

You have also invested time in your profession, and your needs become greater during that time. Most people are contemplating families when they get out along with new cars and homes. I could have been making $80,000 in my current career and instead of taking on $300,000 in loans I could be making $320,000 over the next 4 years. So there are serious opportunity costs that need to be "paid back."

You seem to be laboring under the impression that most, or even all, dental students have $300,000 loan obligations to repay. T'ain't the case. Further, if you're paying anywhere NEAR 43% on a $100,000 salary, you need to fire your accountant, pronto.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by aphistis
I don't know, Gav; it's hard to muster many convincing arguments against an academic position that pays, say, an even $100,000 per year, especially if we discard, as you suggest, the argument of income differential.

It may be difficult, but I don't think it's impossible.

An academic salary of 100k is probably going to require assignments of such gravity that any time for private practice is limited. Such a salary may also include a significant amount of research.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with doing lots of research or not practicing dentistry, but my initial feelings were that the OP was viewing things in terms of either academia OR private practice. There are quite a few people who manage to mix both (probably many of our dental school professors across the nation?), but my thinking is that an academic salary of 100k isn't going to leave much room for things OTHER than academics.

Am I way off base here? I guess I don't know how much a part-time professor would get paid. Maybe Dr. Jeff can answer this. I know he is involved in academics AND has a thriving practice. If he makes close to 100k from his academic assignments, then my thinking is obviously very wrong.