academic misconduct

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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moreno212 said:
cheated on a bio 1 lab practical exam. got caught. Used notes(cheat sheet) shouldn't have done it, was a disgraceful, and didn't need to but mainly because I didn't have the materials to study(misplaced lab notes). made a C after taking the other practicals and did well on final lab report; I got disciplinary probation for a year. I attend a 3rd tier university which is even worse. I am now a sophomore with a 3.8. Any chance of med school even with great recommendations? I still have to take Bio II lecture/lab, O chem I and II, human anatomy/physiology, biochem, maybe ethics, and computer science. Hopefully, I will score average on the MCAT or PCAT(for pharmacy). I may even take a class with the same professor. do well in that class, and get a recommendation from her. Which low tier med school or pharmacy school would be a viable option for me based on the cheating incident? I'm just concerned. I have 3 years left until I graduate. Also should I retake the lab despite passing the course? would that help my chances.
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Your chances aren't zero now, but this will be a huge blow to them. If you pull your act together and do everything right from here on out you may find acceptance somewhere. You may not. Med schools really, really do not like any sort of ethical misconduct in applicants.

If you still want to pursue med school, you'll need to have stellar grades and MCAT, and, more importantly, you need to convince the admissions committees that this was a one-time mistake born of immaturity, that you have repented, grown up, and moved past that, and that you will never ever veer from the path of righteousness again. "How can I convince them of this?" you might ask. I have no idea. For starters, quit being a cheating ass, and actually do the right thing from here on out. It does help that this apparently happened your freshman year, so you have time to try to convince them that you've become a worthwhile human being.
 
Just tell the interviewers why you cheated, and that you'll cheat again if they accept you into medical school.
 
I would think that academic dishonesty as it is related to medical school admissions is on the same level as having been convicted of a felony and how that relates to finding a job.
 
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phltz said:
Your chances aren't zero now, but this will be a huge blow to them. If you pull your act together and do everything right from here on out you may find acceptance somewhere. You may not. Med schools really, really do not like any sort of ethical misconduct in applicants.

If you still want to pursue med school, you'll need to have stellar grades and MCAT, and, more importantly, you need to convince the admissions committees that this was a one-time mistake born of immaturity, that you have repented, grown up, and moved past that, and that you will never ever veer from the path of righteousness again. "How can I convince them of this?" you might ask. I have no idea. For starters, quit being a cheating ass, and actually do the right thing from here on out. It does help that this apparently happened your freshman year, so you have time to try to convince them that you've become a worthwhile human being..
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...
 
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How were you able to create a useful cheat sheet if you did not have the materials needed to study for the exam?

edit: I also have a hard time believing that you were taking differential equations in the summer before your freshman year began. I suspect trolling.
 
V5RED said:
How were you able to create a useful cheat sheet if you did not have the materials needed to study for the exam?

edit: I also have a hard time believing that you were taking differential equations in the summer before your freshman year began. I suspect trolling.
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It wasn't a useful cheat sheet. I copied some of friends notes before the exam. no the incident happened after freshman year. so i'm guessing summer before sophomore year.
 
moreno212 said:
I thought it was ok at first because was only a lab practical and the fact that it was not officially a sit down exam. And does summer count as freshman year if fall 2010 and spring 2011 was freshman year? I'm not a cheating ass because I was one of the best students in the class. I study, and I just panicked because I didn't have anything to study because I was too busy looking for my lab notebook I lost. In addition I had a differential equations exam and bio lecture exam that day. Also, I completed like two of my pre reqs from ap credit. damn.. it sucks though how one decision can ruin your career. Would pharmacy be even harder or will it be the same? It's hard to believe that any school would accept a cheater. But going through that disciplinary process scared the crap out of me and would never do that again. Does anyone know a person who was accepted into med school with a cheating incident?
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You still sound like you're just making excuses and not owning up.
 
moreno212 said:
It wasn't a useful cheat sheet. I copied some of friends notes before the exam. no the incident happened after freshman year. so i'm guessing summer before sophomore year.
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Hindsight is 20/20 but why didn't you just make copies of your friend's notes and study them rather than put both of your futures in danger by asking to help you cheat?
 
Good luck man, I am one to believe in the good of humanity so if you are a normally good student as you said you were, then good luck man, stay strong, and let this be a lesson and an inspiration to keep working hard and try not to look back at this.
 
moreno212 said:
What made me mad is that the Dean tried to make me feel better by saying: "the only that is on your official transcript is the C".
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To be fair he might have just been misinformed. It is actually a common misconception that only IAs present on one's official transcript must be reported (when in fact all IAs need to be reported). He may have thought he was cutting you a break by leaving it off your transcript (which IMO does makes the incident slightly less of a blemish).
 
phltz said:
It does help that this apparently happened your freshman year, so you have time to try to convince them that you've become a worthwhile human being.
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Dude. The guy cheated on an exam. You make it sound like he killed somebody.
moreno212 said:
I couldn't make copies of my friends notes 10 minutes before an exam. I just copied some of the material I couldn't remember. I've gone back to that day in my head so many times and wish I would have done the right thing. There's nothing I can do about it. I should have studied like I normally do. I panicked and was stupid. My professor should have failed me. Maybe I should retake the class. But wouldn't med schools think i'm greedy? What made me mad is that the Dean tried to make me feel better by saying: "the only that is on your official transcript is the C". I'm just wondering if I should call up med schools to explain my incident, and ask them if it's worth applying.
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Calling the schools is not gonna help since I doubt any of them might give you a clear cut answer. I know this is captain obvious speaking here but the best option is to talk to the Dean and ask if there is anyway at all to erase that IA.
 
drdan83 said:
I would think that academic dishonesty as it is related to medical school admissions is on the same level as having been convicted of a felony and how that relates to finding a job.
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that's definitely not true and extremely hyperbolic
 
Try to get a letter of recommendation from that professor even if you have to sign your soul to her. It might be your only hope to look redeemable.

Unlike most people, I'll say that you blew your chances pretty good. Is there a possibility? Maybe, but it will be hard for you to get an acceptance without a lot of time passing by. And even then, schools may just ignore applications with "issues" in them.

I suggest you start looking into alternative career paths instead of dealing with a headache and possibly only heartache.
 
Your chances are not too good, OP, but there are things you can do to improve them. You might consider a Masters degree and do really well in your courses without cheating. You should also figure out ways to get one or two letters that can really talk about your character, and ways that you're a good person. The biggest thing you're going to need is time, so that you can say that you have grown up and learned from your mistakes. I would find stuff to do for a few years and work on your app, and reapply when you can really make your academic dishonesty look like that was a different you at the time. You will need to show a lot of growth, and bring a lot of stuff to the table to offset your academic dishonesty.
 
TriagePreMed said:
Try to get a letter of recommendation from that professor even if you have to sign your soul to her. It might be your only hope to look redeemable.
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This is a really bad idea. You never know what this person will write. It's not worth the risk. Definitely steer clear of the prof and don't take any more classes with her. What's done is done. Move on.
 
skinMD said:
This is a really bad idea. You never know what this person will write. It's not worth the risk. Definitely steer clear of the prof and don't take any more classes with her. What's done is done. Move on.
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Not if you apply open file for a cycle and see what she wrote.
 
skinMD said:
This is a really bad idea. You never know what this person will write. It's not worth the risk. Definitely steer clear of the prof and don't take any more classes with her. What's done is done. Move on.
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It's not a universally bad idea. you can always not waive your right to see recommendations. In addition, if you feel that you must waive this right, you can have an impartial third party (another professor or your prehealth advisor or dean) read the letter as long as both the letter writer and yourself consent to having it read by him/her. If you decide to go the latter route, however, it's better to make the arrangements before the letter is written, preferably when asking.

But I do agree that in most circumstances it's a bad idea. Asking the dean involved may be a better idea if you can be sure you'll get a good letter.
 
TriagePreMed said:
Not if you apply open file for a cycle and see what she wrote.
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SBR249 said:
It's not a universally bad idea. you can always not waive your right to see recommendations. In addition, if you feel that you must waive this right, you can have an impartial third party (another professor or your prehealth advisor or dean) read the letter as long as both the letter writer and yourself consent to having it read by him/her. If you decide to go the latter route, however, it's better to make the arrangements before the letter is written, preferably when asking.

But I do agree that in most circumstances it's a bad idea. Asking the dean involved may be a better idea if you can be sure you'll get a good letter.
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applying without waiving your right to see the letters is adding another red flag to an app that already has a big red flag ...when you've dug yourself a hole you should stop digging.

i dont think a prof would appreciate a student asking that her letter be policed by a third party. don't make it more complicated that it has to be. a letter from this prof isn't going to add too much and might sink your app if the prof is holding a grudge. better to get a truly strong letter from another prof.
 
skinMD said:
applying without waiving your right to see the letters is adding another red flag to an app that already has a big red flag ...when you've dug yourself a hole you should stop digging.
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You don't necessarily have to ask the medical schools for the letter. If your UG school's prehealth office compiles a letter packet, you can withhold a waiver from them and ask to see it there. Medical schools don't need to know all that.

skinMD said:
i dont think a prof would appreciate a student asking that her letter be policed by a third party. don't make it more complicated that it has to be. a letter from this prof isn't going to add too much and might sink your app if the prof is holding a grudge. better to get a truly strong letter from another prof.
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You are right, bad call on my part. if you can't trust a prof to write a good letter, you probably don't have such a good relationship with him/her and shouldn't ask anyway.
 
If you really are remorseful about the cheating (and not just the consequences) another option is to seek out programs that will let you educate other students about academic dishonesty (i.e. Michael Vick re: dogfighting). Also, your explanation of the incident to medical schools should include zero excuses or anything that you think "mitigates" the actions. Be sure to tell them what happened, how stupid it was, and how you have learned from it.

Of course, all of the above is contingent on absolute sincerity. Admissions offices and committees have gotten extremely good at sniffing out the ol' song and dance, and will have even less tolerance for it about academic dishonesty.
 
Given a wealth of applicants all fighting for a spot at any given med school, AdComs are going to take the people who don't have issues of academic integrity. You can say it was a one time thing, but most people will assume you were only caught once.

FattySlug said:
Dude. The guy cheated on an exam. You make it sound like he killed somebody.
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Why do you suppose medical schools are worried about the ethical standards of future doctors?
 
SBR249 said:
You don't necessarily have to ask the medical schools for the letter. If your UG school's prehealth office compiles a letter packet, you can withhold a waiver from them and ask to see it there. Medical schools don't need to know all that.
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this is incorrect. while it's true that you don't request the letters directly from AMCAS, you must submit a form to AMCAS waiving your right to view each letter. if you have a premed committee then it's an all-or-none type of thing where you waive your right to see the committee letter which includes all individual letters contained within it. Either way you have to make your selection known to AMCAS when submitting your app
 
skinMD said:
that's definitely not true and extremely hyperbolic
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Would you want a cheating doctor taking care of you or your loved ones?

I wouldn't. If they got caught cheating on a test who knows what else they are capable of.
 
Three choices:

-Lie some more

-Explain it thoroughly WITH concrete demonstration of how you've repented

-Come to SGU with me
 
I am sorry to hear your story, but why did you cheat in the first place? You do realize that you ARE in college and they DO take cheating very seriously. Enough to ban you from the college, take away your degree if awarded, even sentence you in court. My main concern is you were cheating in BIO 1...That is a Level 1000 class man, which means you HAVE to know that stuff in order to do well in the next level BIO classes (usually). You need to just re-think everything, make sure pre-med / pre-pharmacy is what you want first, because honestly I don't think anyone will accept you ANYWHERE if it happens again. It also bothers me that you are willing to take a LOW tier medical school to adjust for the inconvenience you caused, you should always shoot for the best and take what they give you. Good luck man, no more messing up!
 
OrdinaryMD said:
I am sorry to hear your story, but why did you cheat in the first place? You do realize that you ARE in college and they DO take cheating very seriously. Enough to ban you from the college, take away your degree if awarded, even sentence you in court.
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:laugh:, no. the most they can do is expel you (or I guess take away your degree if it has already been awarded).
 
You cheated? I say go with the Clinton-esc cheater's apology speech. Or maybe a Tiger Woods apology speech?

First of all, don't expect a LOR from that professor after what happened. Honestly, I probably would advise against one even if the prof said he/she would write it. A negative LOR will sink even a stellar application. Also, why aim for an average test score? Keep your above average GPA and aim high on the MCAT. You may be able to make amends by joining your college's peer review board for misconduct or something as well...:shrug:. Definitely own up to it and don't bother with excuses. Also, if you got credit for the course and passed it I would not re-take it.
 
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