According to a Kindergartener, their schedule is just as hard if not harder

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I actually spoke with an overly privileged annoying 9th grader who "challenged me to a medical knowledge game quiz because medical students don't know anything." He said I should "put my money where my mouth is." He reasoned that these days "over 10 kids in his grade got a 100 percent on a 'historically challenging' algebra test, and that in the past when I went to school no one got a 100."
 
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Lol this thread if funny but we can't just throw out the fact that the other threads do shine light on some topics. Everyone just normally assumes that med students have the hardest pre-clinical curriculum and now we see that some PA schools and some PT schools share the exact same classes with med students.

Should we care who has it harder? No. But is it still interesting to see that others share the exact same classes that we constantly complain about? Yes.
 
Yadster101 said:
Lol this thread if funny but we can't just throw out the fact that the other threads do shine light on some topics. Everyone just normally assumes that med students have the hardest pre-clinical curriculum and now we see that some PA schools and some PT schools share the exact same classes with med students.

Should we care who has it harder? No. But is it still interesting to see that others share the exact same classes that we constantly complain about? Yes.
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I was unaware this ever took place. at what programs are PA/PT students taking classes with MD students?
 
Well if you read the other threads... a University of Iowa med student said that both med students and PA students take the exact same classes/exams/etc. On the PT thread some of the med student users were saying that the PT students take the exact same classes with them.
 
Yadster101 said:
Well if you read the other threads... a University of Iowa med student said that both med students and PA students take the exact same classes/exams/etc. On the PT thread some of the med student users were saying that the PT students take the exact same classes with them.
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Every Kindergardenter was taking the exact same classes I was when I was a kindergarten. Difference is I went forward and did/learned more. When everyone does a proper residency and fellowship, then I'll be open to "comparisons"
 
Yadster101 said:
Well if you read the other threads... a University of Iowa med student said that both med students and PA students take the exact same classes/exams/etc. On the PT thread some of the med student users were saying that the PT students take the exact same classes with them.
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Do PA students take Step 1? Or Step 2?
 
Tri723 said:
Every Kindergardenter was taking the exact same classes I was when I was a kindergarten. Difference is I went forward and did/learned more. When everyone does a proper residency and fellowship, then I'll be open to "comparisons"
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Chill homeboy. Kindergarten is something everyone can do. Med school is something we thought only those who got good MCATs/undergrad gpas could do. Turns out some additional groups can also do the first two years of med school.
 
Yadster101 said:
Not to my knowledge no. They could prob pass Step 1 though if they take the same preclinicals.

Edit: the point was that these groups do the same thing in the first two years. Obviously they don't go onto MS3/MS4/residency.
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Yep agreed. the difference is AFTER Step 1. That is what makes a doc these days. Pre-clinical years are the new high school apparently.
 
Tri723 said:
Yep agreed. the difference is AFTER Step 1. That is what makes a doc these days. Pre-clinical years are the new high school apparently.
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I think residency has always been the most important part of the doc training. but i still think preclinical is really difficult.
 
Yadster101 said:
Well if you read the other threads... a University of Iowa med student said that both med students and PA students take the exact same classes/exams/etc. On the PT thread some of the med student users were saying that the PT students take the exact same classes with them.
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clearly I hadn't read the other threads, hence the question, though I just looked it up and it appears to be true.

http://www.medicine.uiowa.edu/pa/tradition/
 
DoctorLacrosse said:
clearly I hadn't read the other threads, hence the question, though I just looked it up and it appears to be true.

http://www.medicine.uiowa.edu/pa/tradition/
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Ya this thread is a reply to those two other threads (one about PA and the other about PT). Tbh I'm pretty surprised that PT/PA/etc. are capable of going through the EXACT same exams/lectures/etc. I wouldn't doubt that other programs have some very intelligent people but I'd think that maby the top half or even top 70% of a Pa/PT/etc. student could get through the pre clinicals. Im surprised that 100% of them are expected to be able pass the same classes as med students.

I know for PT its not uncommon to have undergrad GPA average around 3.3 and they don't take the MCAT. How can 95%+ of these people pass pre clinicals?
 
DOFOSHO said:
No. A kindergartner can handle a med school class, only a med student can handle the entire course load.
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I don't know. If you look at AAMC data, students that manage to get in to allopathic schools, with GPA and/or MCAT scores some even significantly lower than average often still pass Step 1 and Step 2. I feel like medical school admissions have gotten so competitive that it may not be necessary to be as good as the average matriculated applicant to do well in med school.
 
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Yadster101 said:
Ya this thread is a reply to those two other threads (one about PA and the other about PT). Tbh I'm pretty surprised that PT/PA/etc. are capable of going through the EXACT same exams/lectures/etc. I wouldn't doubt that other programs have some very intelligent people but I'd think that maby the top half or even top 70% of a Pa/PT/etc. student could get through the pre clinicals. Im surprised that 100% of them are expected to be able pass the same classes as med students.

I know for PT its not uncommon to have undergrad GPA average around 3.3 and they don't take the MCAT. How can 95%+ of these people pass pre clinicals?
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Like I said in the other thread, the ones I've talked to in any depth seem as capable as the MD students but with a desire for a different career path. (There also aren't nearly as many PA students as MD students here, incidentally.) And no, to my knowledge they don't take step 1 (or go on to the last 1.5 years of med school, I believe, and they aren't required to do a residency of course).
 
Yadster101 said:
Chill homeboy. Kindergarten is something everyone can do. Med school is something we thought only those who got good MCATs/undergrad gpas could do. Turns out some additional groups can also do the first two years of med school.
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Speak for yourself. "We" didn't think that. I think plenty of people "could" get through the first two years of med school. And step 1. People chose not to go to medical school for a variety of reasons.

I think getting into med school is harder than passing the first two years. Getting through the entire grueling process that is med school and residency is much harder than just the studying/test taking aspect. I guess what I'm trying to say is the challenges aren't purely academic, and most med students certainly aren't a standard deviation more intelligent than PhDs, engineers, PA's etc. Hard work, playing the game correctly, emotional strength, and having good reasons for wanting to become a doctor are much more important than ability to study and pass exams.

Finally, whoever said undergrad GPA or MCAT score is a good metric for anything? It's a hoop and a proxy used as a screening tool. I doubt someone who struggles in physics is doomed to fail out of med school, for example.
 
Yadster101 said:
Ya this thread is a reply to those two other threads (one about PA and the other about PT). Tbh I'm pretty surprised that PT/PA/etc. are capable of going through the EXACT same exams/lectures/etc. I wouldn't doubt that other programs have some very intelligent people but I'd think that maby the top half or even top 70% of a Pa/PT/etc. student could get through the pre clinicals. Im surprised that 100% of them are expected to be able pass the same classes as med students.

I know for PT its not uncommon to have undergrad GPA average around 3.3 and they don't take the MCAT. How can 95%+ of these people pass pre clinicals?
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i will say that, at least at my school, merely passing pre-clinicals is made to be really easy; doing well is quite hard.
about 2/3 questions on my tests are gimmes. Passing is 70.
 
Tri723 said:
i will say that, at least at my school, merely passing pre-clinicals is made to be really easy; doing well is quite hard.
about 2/3 questions on my tests are gimmes. Passing is 70.
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Edited...off topic
 
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lazymed said:
Speak for yourself. "We" didn't think that. I think plenty of people "could" get through the first two years of med school. And step 1. People chose not to go to medical school for a variety of reasons.

I think getting into med school is harder than passing the first two years. Getting through the entire grueling process that is med school and residency is much harder than just the studying/test taking aspect. I guess what I'm trying to say is the challenges aren't purely academic, and most med students certainly aren't a standard deviation more intelligent than PhDs, engineers, PA's etc. Hard work, playing the game correctly, emotional strength, and having good reasons for wanting to become a doctor are much more important than ability to study and pass exams.

Finally, whoever said undergrad GPA or MCAT score is a good metric for anything? It's a hoop and a proxy used as a screening tool. I doubt someone who struggles in physics is doomed to fail out of med school, for example.
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Accurate
 
engmedpt said:
That is incredibly subpar. I understand a scoring system is relative according to program but when your cohort is the entire group staying at the library before Christmas night and day while studying for finals to pass 80+% at an intensity more in depth than the comparable med, dental, pharm, and pa students that just pisses people off.

I have yet to determine if the people writing the exams are just giving us an absurd amount of work just to give us work as they collect their grant money and attempt to discover something to get rich. We will see. I can't tell yet, but I'm pretty annoyed that the standard I'm being held to from a scoring and depth of specific knowledge subject is so high while other colleges continually end up failing blocks of students and give them a slap on the wrist....remediating their coursework over breaks and summer so the PhDs can keep their pretty graduation rates up for marketing purposes. This has been happening A LOT. not hard to make a conclusion to when talking to students.

While the practices are completely different and payment is different particularly based on the service offered, I'm not impressed. More and more people and not getting impressed either. At least at my specific spot. Nationally, I would assume things are a bit different but can't make definitive statements.
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Your response was confusing and I'm not sure how it completely relates to what I said.
If you are thinking my school is easy (use of the word "subpar"), think again. Passing is RELATIVELY easy. Our grades are insanely compressed with a small deviation. On the whole, my school is soul sucking if you want to do well. All medical schools have a lot of work, all of them are accredited by the same institution.

I appears to me that your education may or may not keep up with ours for the less-important pre-clinical years. Those don't make the physician at all, so in my eyes it means little. The physician is crafted during residency.
 
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I loved the idea of this thread. I hate that people brought their bull crap from the other threads.
 
Tri723 said:
Your response was confusing and I'm not sure how it completely relates to what I said.
If you are thinking my school is easy (use of the word "subpar"), think again. Passing is RELATIVELY easy. Our grades are insanely compressed with a small deviation. On the whole, my school is soul sucking if you want to do well. All medical schools have a lot of work, all of them are accredited by the same institution.

I appears to me that your education may or may not keep up with ours for the less-important pre-clinical years. Those don't make the physician at all, so in my eyes it means little. The physician is crafted during residency.
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I'm willing to bet every school does this to some degree, whether making enough questions more easy, or adjusting tests as a whole as time goes on. We were getting annihilated with our first couple block exams, but as time went on they got easier and our averages went up. Maybe I learned how to study, or maybe they adjust to make sure people pass. Some of our exams will have a few "gimme questions", but then there'll be some absolutely ridiculous nonsense that exponentially increases the hours of studying needed to land an A.
 
Tri723 said:
I actually spoke with an overly privileged annoying 9th grader who "challenged me to a medical knowledge game quiz because medical students don't know anything." He said I should "put my money where my mouth is." He reasoned that these days "over 10 kids in his grade got a 100 percent on a 'historically challenging' algebra test, and that in the past when I went to school no one got a 100."
Click to expand...
So did you kick their a$$?
 
lazymed said:
I think getting into med school is harder than passing the first two years.

Finally, whoever said undergrad GPA or MCAT score is a good metric for anything? It's a hoop and a proxy used as a screening tool. I doubt someone who struggles in physics is doomed to fail out of med school, for example.
Click to expand...

Why do you think getting in is harder than the first two years? Idk maby for some majors, but as a bio grad I think the first two years are way harder. In college you have time to just be able to simply study more hours, right?

I agree that ugrad GPA/MCAT/physics performance aren't great predictors, but I do think undergrad performance in general is useful. If you killed it in your classes while doing a bunch of ECs/part-time job/etc. then you probably have the abiltiy to do well in med school. If you got good grades but needed to study around the clock in a bio degree, with no time for anything else, then you may have a lot of difficulty adjusting to the increased volume in med school.

I can't comment on "Getting through the entire grueling process" because I haven't even done the clinical years yet...I have seen PA students and med students on rotations at my hospital and it looked like they were both putting in similar hours (although I could be totally wrong about this)
 
Yadster101 said:
Why do you think getting in is harder than the first two years? Idk maby for some majors, but as a bio grad I think the first two years are way harder. In college you have time to just be able to simply study more hours, right?

I agree that ugrad GPA/MCAT/physics performance aren't great predictors, but I do think undergrad performance in general is useful. If you killed it in your classes while doing a bunch of ECs/part-time job/etc. then you probably have the abiltiy to do well in med school. If you got good grades but needed to study around the clock in a bio degree, with no time for anything else, then you may have a lot of difficulty adjusting to the increased volume in med school.

I can't comment on "Getting through the entire grueling process" because I haven't even done the clinical years yet...I have seen PA students and med students on rotations at my hospital and it looked like they were both putting in similar hours (although I could be totally wrong about this)
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When I was on vascular surgery, I was easily doing over double the hours that the pa student was doing and learning way more than double
 
Psai said:
When I was on vascular surgery, I was easily doing over double the hours that the pa student was doing and learning way more than double
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Yeah, but the kindergarteners work twice as hard and learn twice as much as you. Atleast that's what I overheard them saying before nap time.
 
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