Accredited vs non-accredited PhD and PsyD

[chai_latte]

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Hi all,
I have applied to several PhD and PsyD programs, some APA accredited and some not. How can accredited vs not accredited affect my prospects for internship, jobs, licensing, etc? Is it "bad" to attend a non-accredited program?

 

[erg923]

It will greatly restrict all the above. Yes, its bad.

 

[bcliff]

APA accreditation is the minimum standard of training in clinical psychology. Any programs that do not have it will provide you with a very poor education, and will likely offer no funding, meaning you'll earn an unaccredited doctoral degree, with VERY limited career options, and ~$100-200k in debt.

 

[WisNeuro]

For the love of whatever imaginary deity you worship, do not attend an unaccredited program. You will find it incredibly difficult to get an internship, postdoc, future job etc. Ever single institution I have been associated with or trained at (VA's, AMC's, Universities) will not even look at applications from unaccredited places. Feel free to ask others on this board about their places of employment, I'm sure the vast majority will agree.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

1. Many places are NOT ALLOWED to hire ppl from non-APA acred. programs.
2. Licensing is getting tougher in many states (as it should).
3. Many insurance companies will not allow you to join their panels.
4. Many hospitals won't give you privileges bc the credentialing board won't sign off on it.
5. You will be less competitive for most/all jobs.

And the list can go on.

 

[PsychBiker]

Argosy is APA accredited. Find the one closest to you.

 

[bcliff]

Argosy is APA accredited. Find the one closest to you.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

if the responses haven't swayed you enough then I will also reiterate that APA accreditation is the minimum, most basic element a training program should attain.
Some of the unaccredited programs do not even meet the legal state requirements for licensure. Additionally, there are numerous other important elements to consider when choosing a training program.

In general steer clear of large cohort, low internship match rate, low EPPP pass rate, and high debt programs. These are all elements that can negatively impact your career and life goals.

Anecdotally, where I work even if you have an accredited program but an unaccredited internship you go to the trash.

 

[PsychBiker]

.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Hi all,
I have applied to several PhD and PsyD programs, some APA accredited and some not. How can accredited vs not accredited affect my prospects for internship, jobs, licensing, etc? Is it "bad" to attend a non-accredited program?

Friends don't let friends go to non-accredited programs.

 

[theSteppenwolf]

Does this apply to solid state schools that are seeking accreditation?

 

[researchgirl]

Does this apply to solid state schools that are seeking accreditation?

This is perhaps the only exception one should ever consider. Programs cannot become accredited until after their first cohort graduates. Inherently then, sometimes a very solid newer program does not yet have accreditation. If the program is doing everything up to APA standards and plans to seek accreditation as soon as they are eligible, then their training director should also be very open to talking to you about how attending their program may or may not limit your career options, which will help you make an informed decision.

 

[PsychBiker]

My old program became APA accredited while I was still a student. It worked out for me, but it is a risk I rarely recommend.

 

[PsychPsyance]

There have been some interesting developments with regard to APA accreditation standard in the last year. In July 2014, the APA proposed new accreditation standards which would allow for programs to apply for "accredited, on contingency" without having graduated students yet. This draft proposal was open for public comment until December 2014. The COA is now in the process of making edits to the original proposal, based on public comments. It is anticipated that the COA will send a proposal to APA governance for approval in February/March. It seems possible that by May many programs, who assumed they would not be eligible for accreditation for years to come, will be eligible in just a few months.

This doesn't mean there is no risk involved. But as a professor at a new, solid yet unaccredited, PhD program I am hopeful about this. I would suggest that applicants speak with DCTs and/or potential mentors about this very topic. Ask if they plan to apply for "accredited, on contingency" status, and ask what exactly that means. Find out where the program is in their self-study (note, many programs are going to be at the early stages of this). And finally, ask about when the program feels they might, realistically, gain accreditation. If a program seems solid, has a good reputation, is at a good university, and is ready to submit the self-study as soon as this proposal is approved, then in my opinion, the risk is somewhat diminished (though, as I said, there is still some risk).

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Hi all,
I have applied to several PhD and PsyD programs, some APA accredited and some not. How can accredited vs not accredited affect my prospects for internship, jobs, licensing, etc? Is it "bad" to attend a non-accredited program?

With the internship imbalance (generally, not enough slots for applicants with the problem compounding from year to year), I wouldn't recommend going to an unaccredited graduate program in psychology and trying to get matched to an internship site (and be massively in debt from graduate school) in a few years. It's challenging enough for applicants from accredited graduate programs to get accepted to internship...with a degree from an unaccredited program, very dicey.

 

[irish80122]

Does this apply to solid state schools that are seeking accreditation?

I am the DCT at a program like this, so I can speak to this situation a bit. As others have said, I would strongly encourage you (and an advisor you trust at your current institution) to speak with the DCT to learn about the steps the program is taking to ensure that the courses are equivalent to an APA program and that the program is moving forward promptly toward APA accreditation. In our case, we have three cohorts of students already in the program and are beginning to work on our self-study. Because of this, we plan on applying for accreditation very early in the graduate careers of the students we admit. While we cannot guarantee that we will become accredited, and there is always more risk going to a non-accredited program, the students we accept this year should know the outcome of our APA application well before they have to apply for internship. If we were somehow unable to attain APA accreditation and a student asked me for a letter to apply elsewhere I would have no problem providing a very strong letter explaining the situation. Thus, it is my hope that the risk, while certainly present, is minimized for students coming in this year.

Every program is different, and is in a different place in their preparations for APA accreditation. Again, talk with the DCT, it will be well-received. I personally look forward to discussing this issue with students on our interview, and I view discussing it as an opportunity as I believe our university provides very strong training and that we are making great strides towards applying for APA accreditation. As I mentioned before, if you have any trusted mentors at your school, perhaps have them talk with the DCT as well? You want to make sure you are comfortable with the school regardless of if it is accredited or not, so take advantage of your mentors!

To respond to an earlier comment, I know that our program, as well as several other university-based PhD programs that are new and currently seeking accreditation, offer competitive funding and tuition waivers.

I hope that is helpful. I will try to check in on this thread if there are any questions I can answer, but also please feel free to message me if you have any questions.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I am the DCT at a program like this, so I can speak to this situation a bit. As others have said, I would strongly encourage you (and an advisor you trust at your current institution) to speak with the DCT to learn about the steps the program is taking to ensure that the courses are equivalent to an APA program and that the program is moving forward promptly toward APA accreditation. In our case, we have three cohorts of students already in the program and are beginning to work on our self-study. Because of this, we plan on applying for accreditation very early in the graduate careers of the students we admit. While we cannot guarantee that we will become accredited, and there is always more risk going to a non-accredited program, the students we accept this year should know the outcome of our APA application well before they have to apply for internship. If we were somehow unable to attain APA accreditation and a student asked me for a letter to apply elsewhere I would have no problem providing a very strong letter explaining the situation. Thus, it is my hope that the risk, while certainly present, is minimized for students coming in this year.

Every program is different, and is in a different place in their preparations for APA accreditation. Again, talk with the DCT, it will be well-received. I personally look forward to discussing this issue with students on our interview, and I view discussing it as an opportunity as I believe our university provides very strong training and that we are making great strides towards applying for APA accreditation. As I mentioned before, if you have any trusted mentors at your school, perhaps have them talk with the DCT as well? You want to make sure you are comfortable with the school regardless of if it is accredited or not, so take advantage of your mentors!

To respond to an earlier comment, I know that our program, as well as several other university-based PhD programs that are new and currently seeking accreditation, offer competitive funding and tuition waivers.

I hope that is helpful. I will try to check in on this thread if there are any questions I can answer, but also please feel free to message me if you have any questions.

IMO, this is perhaps the perfect response from a DCT of a currently-unaccredited but in-process program. If I were a current applicant, it would go a long way toward assuaging my accreditation-related fears (assuming, as in this case, the program is at an already well-established and respected university).

There's of course inherent risk with unaccredited programs, but you can definitely work to mitigate that risk, and not all unaccredited programs are created equal.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Sorry, yes, I want to clarify/amend that I was speaking of programs that were unaccredited for a while and looked like they would remain unaccredited into the future because they weren't actively seeking accreditation. Sites that are seeking accreditation are a different story. In fact these may be the sites that are going to offer extremely vigorous and high-quality training as they are in the process of seeking accreditation and active pursuit of excellence is essential to that process.

 

[chai_latte]

alright, thanks everyone. Now I'm just hoping I get into an accredited program, as this is my 2nd time around!

 

[jgg323]

Hi all,
I have applied to several PhD and PsyD programs, some APA accredited and some not. How can accredited vs not accredited affect my prospects for internship, jobs, licensing, etc? Is it "bad" to attend a non-accredited program?

It is very bad. I rolled the dice and I attended a non-accredited school because it was considered a research institution and the stipends were amazing. We got accredited prior to internship applications and so I basically lucked up and have all the options available to me now that we are accredited. I actually did quite well in terms of getting internship interviews at some pretty competetive sites.

HOWEVER, although it CAN work out and did work out for ME...my life was incredibly stressful prior to accreditation and I actually delayed internship one year because of it. Although it may work, you will likely suffer from constant anxiety and fear of "what if it doesn't work out", "what have I done", etc. Also, if it does not work out then you will have a hell of a time getting interviews and then matching at a site that will lead to licensure. I had friends who matched prior to my program getting accredited but most of them landed at non-APA accredited sites which means that they can never work for the federal government and are ineligible for licensure in many states. I hope that this was helpful.

 

[irish80122]

It is very bad. I rolled the dice and I attended a non-accredited school because it was considered a research institution and the stipends were amazing. We got accredited prior to internship applications and so I basically lucked up and have all the options available to me now that we are accredited. I actually did quite well in terms of getting internship interviews at some pretty competetive sites.

HOWEVER, although it CAN work out and did work out for ME...my life was incredibly stressful prior to accreditation and I actually delayed internship one year because of it. Although it may work, you will likely suffer from constant anxiety and fear of "what if it doesn't work out", "what have I done", etc. Also, if it does not work out then you will have a hell of a time getting interviews and then matching at a site that will lead to licensure. I had friends who matched prior to my program getting accredited but most of them landed at non-APA accredited sites which means that they can never work for the federal government and are ineligible for licensure in many states. I hope that this was helpful.

There are a few points though that I think are worth making. You made a good bet by going to a solid research institution, and it paid off. You basically got a big name on sale, and for the rest of your career you will have that name on your diploma.

As for it being stressful, it certainly can be, but I think it depends on what cohort you are in. If you are in the first or second cohort for a school it is going to be a bit stressful, but I don't know that it will be if you are in the fourth or fifth cohort as there are so many students ahead of you applying for internship, and your program is that much more established and is hopefully applying for accreditation.