ADD and Med. School--Advice?

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BarbG

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Anyone out there in med school who has ADD? I am a recent Bio grad who has ADD, but tried to go without medication in college because of the side effects I was experiencing. Well, that decision backfired. I had great difficulty concentrating on my courses with all of the distractions of college life, and ended up with a 3.0. My MCAT score from my junior year was decent, a 31 with no prep, and I have a good research background, but with a 3.0 I didn't bother applying anywhere. This Fall, I decided to try a new ADD med and it has worked wonders for me. I know that I would be a different student on this medicine. I plan to do some prep and retake the MCAT in Jan. and think I can raise my score, and maybe apply to a post bacc. program.

Should I be honest in my post bacc application (and in med school applications) about my struggle with ADD, or would this be a red flag leading to an automatic rejection? I know there is still a stigma attached to this diagnosis, even in my own mind (hence the reluctance to take med.). Also, is it possible to succeed in med school wiht ADD? If anyone is dealing with this issue, or knows someone who has, I'd really appreciate your advice. Thanks!
 
Do not talk about the ADD. The reason I say this is that not everybody is going to understand and for some it may raise a red flag. Its best to put your best out there and not give them too much to doubt you on.

-"if they have ADD, then maybe they can't hack it in med school"

you don't want them to be thinking that.

Its also true that many people, even doctors, do not really buy into the whole "ADD is real disorder" thing. Since it can be sort of vague and has no clear cut biochemical/physiological basis you might meet some discrimination along the way. And because stimulants are so commonly abused and "study steroids" have sort of a stigma, its better to just not mention it at all.

I speak from experience. If ADD is real...then I have it. The choice to be on meds was not made by me as child; my parents made me. Once I got out of high school, I felt that the side effects were not worth it and quit. ADD can be managed w/out meds: quiet room, nothing on walls, NO INTERNET (haha) no music or people talking, ear plugs, ect. A little caffeine might help, too. If you absolutly must use the drugs, I highly reccomend you keep it to yourself and your doctor. And be careful with them...take drug vacations sometimes and if its possible for you to study w/out them, try. If you find nothing is getting done and you are way too distracted, THEN take them. You don't want to become psychologically addicted (you think you CAN"T study w/out them even if maybe you really can).

good luck and dont worry...just because you get distracted easily does not mean you can't hack it in medschool or be a good doctor if you work hard and are dedicated. If you really want it badly enough...anything is possible really.
 
You have real insight on the ADD problem and have given me great advice. I think you are right on removing the distractions, especially the internet, facebook and IMs. That will be hard for me, but necessary. Good luck to you in med school. I admire your willpower and determination. You will make a good doctor.
 
You have real insight on the ADD problem and have given me great advice. I think you are right on removing the distractions, especially the internet, facebook and IMs. That will be hard for me, but necessary. Good luck to you in med school. I admire your willpower and determination. You will make a good doctor.

I have a similar situation to TacoGirl, except I never took meds, though I was diagnosed. It is definitely possible to still succeed. What I actually do, I know this sounds weird, is give in. I will walk and study at the same time or do 3 things at once (one of which is studying). I also limit my time studying straight and switch locations OFTEN. I think that ADD can be an advantage in the sense that you are probably afforded the opportunity to see the big picture in a way that some of your more focused classmates will not be able to.

P.S. Become a generalist when you get in (If you really want to, you'll find a way). FM, IM, peds, EM, etc... If you try and see the same thing every day, you will do worse.
 
Yeah... I did 12 hours in a specialty clinic over 4 mornings and wanted to DIE because all the patients had pretty much the same thing! Now I'm thinking about being a hospitalist or ER doc-I do tend to perform better when I can be multitasking!

anyway to the OP, I don't think you can leave your ADD out of your application, because otherwise, you have no excuse for doing poorly. I would talk about your ADD and the impact it's had on you, then I'd start stretching things a little-rather than saying that you have it controlled with medication, list off all of the OTHER ways that you have learned to control it and work with it, some of which have already been posted here. It's probably OK to admit that you do take medicines "from time to time when I need them" and just don't mention that "time to time" is a 24 hour interval, and "when I need them" is every day.

personally, one of the things that helped me with ADD was when we reviewed 12 step programs in our touchy-feely ethics class. They actually really apply to controlling any type of uncontrollable destructive behavior. Hint: in Step 8 you will be talking to yourself, probably regarding previous exams. Prerequisite: Requires monotheistic spirituality of some type.
 
I totally have ADD, and I made it through, thanks to figuring out how to study: It required finding a group of friends who didn't mind talking while studying, and taking frequent breaks. I also switched between subjects every hour or so. It really helped.
 
i would be super careful about who you tell in medschool also. i am talking fellow classmates.

i know none of you would go around announcing it to anyone, but just as an example, i have a couple of friends in school with it who made the mistake of trusting this one girl. she has a HUGE mouth and goes around telling everyone "so-and-so has like the WORST ADD!! i mean, can't you just see her losing her focus with her patients, and like, getting sued by someone?"

i am not kidding. stuff like this happens because many people in school love to talk crap about others because they have no life, are generally not happy people and like to bring others down, or are just downright mean hearted.

remember this advice please. keep your disorder to yourself. only tell those around you who are really, really good and close friends if you must. there IS a stigma attached to ADD and it sucks.
 
Lots of good responses to the OP here. Although I don' have ADD I certainly see the issue come up alot on SDN. A few thoughts...

ADD is a diagnosis, and therefore a pathology. I have met several students who claim that their "ADD" will be an asset to them in their chosen career (almost always EM). I would strongly caution people against this mindset.

The diagnostic criteria for ADD, if they are met, do not bode well for success in med school without intervention. If you're going to go down this path, figure out early what you can do to keep focus.

It seems like several posters have done well though and made it through, I certainly commend them and best of luck to the rest of you.
 
by the time one is done with med school, everyone "gets" ADD...and a bunch of other stuff! don’t stress about it.. 😉
 
The first thing I thought after reading your post is not much of "Is s/he gonna be able to do well in med school?" but rather "Gee... I really don't want to be seen by a doctor with ADD"

Don't get me wrong, I do have sympathy for your situation and presume that you had hardship in reaching where you are at today. However, there are people out there (like me) who just don't really know what's going on with people who claim themselves to have ADD. Kinda like how I don't know what's going on with people who have migraine.

So since I'm guessing you are gonna apply for medical schools regardless of what SDNers think, I would advice you to not put this ADD situation on your application.

You maybe thinking that ADD could help ADCOMs to understand the reason for low GPA but it seems to me that if you could overcome MCAT and get 31 in it, stating that you have ADD would really complicate how they'd look at your "ADD".

Good luck:luck:
 
The first thing I thought after reading your post is not much of "Is s/he gonna be able to do well in med school?" but rather "Gee... I really don't want to be seen by a doctor with ADD"

Don't get me wrong, I do have sympathy for your situation and presume that you had hardship in reaching where you are at today. However, there are people out there (like me) who just don't really know what's going on with people who claim themselves to have ADD. Kinda like how I don't know what's going on with people who have migraine.

So since I'm guessing you are gonna apply for medical schools regardless of what SDNers think, I would advice you to not put this ADD situation on your application.

You maybe thinking that ADD could help ADCOMs to understand the reason for low GPA but it seems to me that if you could overcome MCAT and get 31 in it, stating that you have ADD would really complicate how they'd look at your "ADD".

Good luck:luck:

You might very well have been treated by a doctor with ADD and not known it. There are people with ADD who find all sorts of ways to cope and be successful. We have the image of assigning ADD as an excuse for people who do poorly academically, but that's not always the case. I guess it's a good thing doctors don't have to disclose information like that to their patients.
 
I've heard of students at many medical schools getting themselves diagnosed with ADD so they can get some meds prescribed to help them study. I'm not accusing anyone here of that, but I am saying that I think something should be done to address the problem. Let's face it, what medical student wouldn't love to be able to sit down and focus better, and retain more. I know students use the stuff to gain what I see as an unfair advantage (or is it?) by taking meds. I've been diagnosed with ADD and it IS very hard to stay focused, but I refuse to take medicine, because I feel that I would then have an unfair advantage. Besides, I've managed to do just fine and get by as it is. You may disagree with my point of view, that's fine... I think most people do.
 
All of the posts have been helpful to me, even those that deny the existence of ADD as a medical condition. I appreciate everyone's opinion, but I'm concerned about the lack of basic understanding about ADD and ADHD that I've seen expressed in some of the posts. In a med student forum, I would have expected a higher level of understanding and knowledge of this very real condition. For anyone who is not informed, please do some research. MRIs have confirmed significant differences between ADD sufferers and a control group in the part of the brain that controls impulse. These functional differences were almost normalized with medication.

As with many other medical conditions, ADD and ADHD occur on a continuum. Hence, someone may indeed have ADD but may be able to control it w/o medication and experience no great problems, while another may absolutely require medication as part of treatment. Studies have shown a link between ADD, ADHD, and Tourette's, which all derive from abnormal functioning in the same part of the brain. I researched it very heavily before I decided to take medication, and I would hope that those planning to be doctors would become better informed. Going to my doctor as an adult and admitting that I needed help was a humiliating and humbling experience for me. Fortunately, my doctor was very knowledgeable and skilled. I would not like to think that someone would seek help from a medical professional and be presented with some of the uninformed opinions some have posted here.

Also, to the poster who believes that someone who is taking medication for ADD has an unfair advantage, you are entitled to your opinion and I appreciate your response, but your logic is not valid. ADD is a disabling condition that puts you at a great disadvantage in most situations. The degree of severity is key. For some unlucky people, medication is necessary just to level the playing field. It won't make them any smarter, but it will prevent their natural intelligence from being sabotaged by their inability to concentrate.

Thanks again for all of your input and for taking time from your VERY busy schedules to help me!
 
I appreciate your attempt at providing a medical education to those of us on this forum. However, I caution that your understanding of this topic may not be as great as you think.

As expected, you disagree with the statement that ADD medications can provide an unfair advantage. And your own proper logic should inform you that whether you understand or agree with the logic of the position I take, doesn't make it any less valid than your own. Let me address this:

For starters, I know for a fact that students who show no clinical symptoms of ADD successfully use the drugs as a study aid. But besides this, I think you are missing my real point. The point is that every medical student wishes they could get more out of their intelligence by being able to focus more and study longer. In reality, the medical debate regarding ADD is the fact that medical normals regarding disabilities are set according to current social standards which are subject to change. Consider the current ambiguity regarding our current clinical dividing line between a person who has trouble focusing (no clinical Dx), Briquet's syndrome, various forms of depression and one who has ADD (have you noticed that some ADHD Rx are primary Rx for these other disorders?). Further, take a look back at DSM I and you'll see homosexuality listed as a disorder. At the time it was (and is still many times) something that puts at a great disadvantage compared to non-homosexuals. Further, medical diagnostics such as EEG's have shown abnormalities in homosexuals. One such example is that many male homosexuals have brain pattern that resemble more closely that of a female. So, if deviation from normal defines disability then why is homosexuality no longer found in the DSM IV? Further, medical treatments for homosexuality do exist, but are highly controversial, little known, and rarely discussed (save for philosophical debates). Another example is caffiene. Caffeine is not an addictive substance under our current medical definition of the term. It is however, considered addictive according to the lay person's understanding of the term and caffeine addiction is rumored to be classified as a disease in the future DSM V.

Going on, the possibility of improvement with medication does not define disease. Often because improvement (once again) is a socially set standard. Consider our current situation with pro athletes. You can be stronger (a socially defined good quality) by taking steroids or by blood doping, but intervention induced improvement does not necessarily equate to cure (or successful treatment) of a diseased state. Steroids don't add muscle, they just make better use of the muscles you already have...So you might say, "It won't give them any more muscles, but it will prevent their natural strength from being sabotaged by their inability to train more efficiently" which equates to, "It won't make them any smarter, but it will prevent their natural intelligence from being sabotaged by their inability to concentrate."

Further, reluctance of a physician to utilize any specific available treatments for any given disorder does not equate to misunderstanding of the sciences regarding that disorder. Consider antibiotics: Many patients demand antibiotics from their physicians every time they get a cold. And sadly, many physicians will prescribe them every time. But, current medical knowledge tells us this is WRONG. So, a doctor has a choice to make, he can risk* losing the patient begging the drug, or risk* contributing to antibiotic resistance.

Finally, you need to realize that when/if you become a physician, you will treat patients that won't adhere to your prescribed medical plan (religious beliefs, stubbornness, mistrust, lack of finances, etc, etc). Simply assuming they are uninformed or calling them illogical simply because they disagree with you won't aid the matter.
 
I would not like to think that someone would seek help from a medical professional and be presented with some of the uninformed opinions some have posted here.

I would not like to think that patients would want to be treated by a doctor with ADD.

Also, I would not like to think that a person, who can concentrate for an 8 hour long exam (MCAT) and did decent in it, could have nerve to claim his bad GPA is due to ADD.

In the end, I would not like to think someone dishonest and opportunistic as this one could fool anyone else, let alone admission committee.

Therefore, for your own sake, I advised you to not put your "ADD" on the application.
 
I appreciate your attempt at providing a medical education to those of us on this forum. However, I caution that your understanding of this topic may not be as great as you think.

As expected, you disagree with the statement that ADD medications can provide an unfair advantage. And your own proper logic should inform you that whether you understand or agree with the logic of the position I take, doesn't make it any less valid than your own. Let me address this:

For starters, I know for a fact that students who show no clinical symptoms of ADD successfully use the drugs as a study aid. But besides this, I think you are missing my real point. The point is that every medical student wishes they could get more out of their intelligence by being able to focus more and study longer. In reality, the medical debate regarding ADD is the fact that medical normals regarding disabilities are set according to current social standards which are subject to change. Consider the current ambiguity regarding our current clinical dividing line between a person who has trouble focusing (no clinical Dx), Briquet’s syndrome, various forms of depression and one who has ADD (have you noticed that some ADHD Rx are primary Rx for these other disorders?). Further, take a look back at DSM I and you'll see homosexuality listed as a disorder. At the time it was (and is still many times) something that puts at a great disadvantage compared to non-homosexuals. Further, medical diagnostics such as EEG's have shown abnormalities in homosexuals. One such example is that many male homosexuals have brain pattern that resemble more closely that of a female. So, if deviation from normal defines disability then why is homosexuality no longer found in the DSM IV? Further, medical treatments for homosexuality do exist, but are highly controversial, little known, and rarely discussed (save for philosophical debates). Another example is caffiene. Caffeine is not an addictive substance under our current medical definition of the term. It is however, considered addictive according to the lay person's understanding of the term and caffeine addiction is rumored to be classified as a disease in the future DSM V.

Going on, the possibility of improvement with medication does not define disease. Often because improvement (once again) is a socially set standard. Consider our current situation with pro athletes. You can be stronger (a socially defined good quality) by taking steroids or by blood doping, but intervention induced improvement does not necessarily equate to cure (or successful treatment) of a diseased state. Steroids don't add muscle, they just make better use of the muscles you already have...So you might say, "It won't give them any more muscles, but it will prevent their natural strength from being sabotaged by their inability to train more efficiently" which equates to, "It won't make them any smarter, but it will prevent their natural intelligence from being sabotaged by their inability to concentrate."

Further, reluctance of a physician to utilize any specific available treatments for any given disorder does not equate to misunderstanding of the sciences regarding that disorder. Consider antibiotics: Many patients demand antibiotics from their physicians every time they get a cold. And sadly, many physicians will prescribe them every time. But, current medical knowledge tells us this is WRONG. So, a doctor has a choice to make, he can risk* losing the patient begging the drug, or risk* contributing to antibiotic resistance.

Finally, you need to realize that when/if you become a physician, you will treat patients that won't adhere to your prescribed medical plan (religious beliefs, stubbornness, mistrust, lack of finances, etc, etc). Simply assuming they are uninformed or calling them illogical simply because they disagree with you won't aid the matter.

1. You might be interested to note that, while both homosexuality and adhd both cause disadvantages, and are both biologically based, one of these two "biological variants" actually causes measurable mental impairment and suffering independent of social and cultural factors, whereas the other's disadvantage (not considering evolutionary or reproductive implications) only arises in a specific sociocultural context.

2. In regards to the idea that improvement with medication does not define a disease state - i agree with the main idea, but your example of steroid use is another false comparison. Using amphetamines in an abusive manner would be similar to using steroids in an abusive manner, however, you wouldnt think twice before prescribing steroids to treat inflammation - where a patient is at an extreme disadvantage without the drugs. Amphetamines prescribed when indicated would be similar to (to continue your analogy) prescribing steroids to a person who has an imbalance of hormones and cannot function normally without the drug.
 
1. You might be interested to note that, while both homosexuality and adhd both cause disadvantages, and are both biologically based, one of these two "biological variants" actually causes measurable mental impairment and suffering independent of social and cultural factors, whereas the other's disadvantage (not considering evolutionary or reproductive implications) only arises in a specific sociocultural context.

2. In regards to the idea that improvement with medication does not define a disease state - i agree with the main idea, but your example of steroid use is another false comparison. Using amphetamines in an abusive manner would be similar to using steroids in an abusive manner, however, you wouldnt think twice before prescribing steroids to treat inflammation - where a patient is at an extreme disadvantage without the drugs. Amphetamines prescribed when indicated would be similar to (to continue your analogy) prescribing steroids to a person who has an imbalance of hormones and cannot function normally without the drug.
Oops...I had originally specified androgens. I'm not sure why/when I changed it. Good call.

However, I disagree with your belief that impairment and suffering caused by ADHD are independent of social and cultural factors. As a matter of fact, some cultures and subcultures (such as artists) tend to promote a less restrained and organized thought pattern. Is it really impairment and suffering if you are intending to have a more disorganized thought pattern? No. Consider that a drunk person wouldn't necessarily consider themselves suffering or impaired. "Measurable impairment" is a matter of perspective as well. A drunk person would be impaired at driving but might consider themselves less impaired to have a good time at a party. Drinking can also lead to suffering (hangovers on one end and accidents, injuries, and death being the other extreme). I would like to point out though that socio-cultural norms of acceptance of homosexuality are far more common than socio-cultural norms of acceptance of ADHD thought patterns (I'm trying to concede that the variant socio-cultural norm is extremely rare).
 
Oops...I had originally specified androgens. I'm not sure why/when I changed it. Good call.

However, I disagree with your belief that impairment and suffering caused by ADHD are independent of social and cultural factors. As a matter of fact, some cultures and subcultures (such as artists) tend to promote a less restrained and organized thought pattern. Is it really impairment and suffering if you are intending to have a more disorganized thought pattern? No. Consider that a drunk person wouldn't necessarily consider themselves suffering or impaired. "Measurable impairment" is a matter of perspective as well. A drunk person would be impaired at driving but might consider themselves less impaired to have a good time at a party. Drinking can also lead to suffering (hangovers on one end and accidents, injuries, and death being the other extreme). I would like to point out though that socio-cultural norms of acceptance of homosexuality are far more common than socio-cultural norms of acceptance of ADHD thought patterns (I'm trying to concede that the variant socio-cultural norm is extremely rare).

Yeah ADHD would be accurately connected to cultural factors like you mentioned if it was simply a less restrained and organized pattern of thoughts. However i don't know of any cultures where it would be beneficial to have poor memory, act without thinking first, make careless mistakes, and be unable to put forth sustained mental effort.
 
Yeah ADHD would be accurately connected to cultural factors like you mentioned if it was simply a less restrained and organized pattern of thoughts. However i don't know of any cultures where it would be beneficial to have poor memory, act without thinking first, make careless mistakes, and be unable to put forth sustained mental effort.

That's the point exactly. There exists an entire spectrum of people with the disorder and without, each person with varying amount of each characteristic (positive and negative). Not just the 2 polar opposites. While, the negatives of ADHD are mentioned above, some people don't like losing the high (mania) they sometimes feel with ADHD, they enjoy the creativity and use it for making music and art, or to keep them preoccupied while the work their fields in a third world country (Not everyone in the world spends their time memorizing medical information and preparing for exams like you and I). On the other hand, negatives exist with the other extreme such as missing out on something big because you spent too much time thinking it over, having a boring life/personality, inability to mentally let go of something, and lack of creativity and spontanaity. I'd also like to point out, that, as I mentioned before these characteristics you mention are classically associated with other disorders such as depression and FAS and that such DDx would need to be ruled out before Dx of ADHD.
 
I would not like to think that patients would want to be treated by a doctor with ADD.

Also, I would not like to think that a person, who can concentrate for an 8 hour long exam (MCAT) and did decent in it, could have nerve to claim his bad GPA is due to ADD.

In the end, I would not like to think someone dishonest and opportunistic as this one could fool anyone else, let alone admission committee.

I hope you keep this condescending attitude towards people with genetic disabilities when on the wards. It will make you a great doctor. :laugh:
 
Yeah ADHD would be accurately connected to cultural factors like you mentioned if it was simply a less restrained and organized pattern of thoughts. However i don't know of any cultures where it would be beneficial to have poor memory, act without thinking first, make careless mistakes, and be unable to put forth sustained mental effort.

ADHD doesn't truly impair memory. ADHD sufferers have more difficulty paying attention, and thus do worse on memory tests. This is usually because they never learned the thing in the first place, so there is nothing to remember. A person with ADHD who is disciplined and learns material will retain it at a rate no different than anyone else.
 
That's the point exactly. There exists an entire spectrum of people with the disorder and without, each person with varying amount of each characteristic (positive and negative). Not just the 2 polar opposites. While, the negatives of ADHD are mentioned above, some people don't like losing the high (mania) they sometimes feel with ADHD, they enjoy the creativity and use it for making music and art, or to keep them preoccupied while the work their fields in a third world country (Not everyone in the world spends their time memorizing medical information and preparing for exams like you and I). On the other hand, negatives exist with the other extreme such as missing out on something big because you spent too much time thinking it over, having a boring life/personality, inability to mentally let go of something, and lack of creativity and spontanaity. I'd also like to point out, that, as I mentioned before these characteristics you mention are classically associated with other disorders such as depression and FAS and that such DDx would need to be ruled out before Dx of ADHD.


I don't think you could call it a mania. It isn't a bipolar disorder. It is true however that disordered thinking can actually be advantageous in certain contexts (though I will concede that pre-clinical medical school is NOT one of these).

I'll also point out that ADHD is WAAAAAYYYY over-diagnosed and related to unrealistic social norms. If you make a 6 year old boy sit for 7 hours with no recess or phys ed, he will be poorly behaved. This is not a medical disorder. I often think ADHD is used as an excuse for ANY childhood behavior that doesn't fit that expected by the public school system.
 
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