adversity / personal struggle in secondary apps

[thegreenlight]

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I've noticed that a number of secondaries (e.g. JHU, UChicago, Northwestern, etc) all ask for examples of how you overcame adversity or some sort of personal struggle. The problem is that my example is not something that I want to share, and I don't think that it would be well-received by adcoms anyway.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Could I write about helping someone else overcome adversity?

 

[bozz]

Helping someone else overcome adversity doesn't seem to be as direct and might not be the best idea.

also ...could a moral/ethical dilemma fit for these adversity/personal struggle topics?

 

[WinterLights]

I've noticed that a number of secondaries (e.g. JHU, UChicago, Northwestern, etc) all ask for examples of how you overcame adversity or some sort of personal struggle. The problem is that my example is not something that I want to share, and I don't think that it would be well-received by adcoms anyway.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Could I write about helping someone else overcome adversity?

Can you only think of one? I would try my best to stick to the topic.

 

[Raryn]

Can you only think of one? I would try my best to stick to the topic.

Hell, I can't think of any at all. I've had a pretty stable life...

 

[ChemGrad08]

I had a similar problem, I decided to speak relatively generally. I took the "if you wouldn't want it in your local paper, don't put it in the app" approach. I talked more about how the situation affected me rather than what the exact details were. And it seems to have come out alright, the first draft was really bad, because it was too abstract but I was able to revise it to add in subtle details that made it sound a lot better.

 

[WinterLights]

Hell, I can't think of any at all. I've had a pretty stable life...

I'm sure everyone has had some adversity in their lives. The real question would be is it worth mentioning? Most Adcoms would probably laugh at someone that discusses getting a B- on an exam. . . but that is adversity for some people.

 

[blankette]

I also have a similar problem, so I have decided to write about a time where I had something relatively benign happen, but still an adversity -- my lesson from the experience is that I'm grateful not to have had any serious hardships 🙄 Not sure if it'll work, but the essay isn't optional and they said I could indicate if I haven't had applicable circumstances.

 

[ButImLETired]

Hmmm my problem is that I've had too many and can't pick one, and I can't mention them all without sounding like Tiny Tim. Also, I've mentioned them sort of in passing in the primary. Thoughts?

 

[gasdf1234567]

The moral/ethical dilemma essays are annoying. Do the really expect all college students to have faced that type of situation? I'm gonna have to completely make something up on that one. Same with the adversity essay. I'm gonna try to write a general one that could apply to both the moral/ethical and adversity essays.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Does anyone have any suggestions? Could I write about helping someone else overcome adversity?

No. That's showing how you give support. They want to know how you deal with your problems.

 

[WinterLights]

Hmmm my problem is that I've had too many and can't pick one, and I can't mention them all without sounding like Tiny Tim. Also, I've mentioned them sort of in passing in the primary. Thoughts?

Pick the one that wont make you look like a potential psycho-killer.

 

[calnation]

Seems like there are a lot of immense internal struggles that people go through but cannot express due to warranted fear of being judged. Kind of a bummer

 

[WinterLights]

Seems like there are a lot of immense internal struggles that people go through but cannot express due to warranted fear of being judged. Kind of a bummer

Welcome to life. Have you ever seen the movie American Psycho? Interesting watch lol.

 

[calnation]

Can't say that I have but I do have it in my netflix que. Ill move it up top at your suggestion 🙂

 

[pazan]

Hell, I can't think of any at all. I've had a pretty stable life...

I'm in the same position... the toughest thing I can think of is breaking up with my gf of 3 years because of circumstances beyond our control, but I would get an automatic rejection for talking about something that trite. Things don't usually get me down, I understand their position in the scheme of things... it's going to feel weird completely overdramatizing something that really didn't mean that much to me.

 

[p30doc]

how about dealing with the medical school application process as a personal struggle?

 

[schismal]

Seems like there are a lot of immense internal struggles that people go through but cannot express due to warranted fear of being judged. Kind of a bummer

Tell me about it. All I have are family and personal issues, neither of which I really want to put in an essay. I could write them well, but we're talking about intensely private struggles here...

 

[LizzyM]

You aren't being judged by the severity of your problem. The adcom isn't interested in the intimate details of your troubles. The adcom wants to know what you do when you have your back to the wall. How do you deal with hardships/stress? Do you find that talking with someone helps/ do you work it out in the gym or on a long distance run/ do you turn to meditation or prayer/ rehearse what you'll say and do before you do what needs to be done/ refuse to be discouraged and work to figure out what went wrong/ write down & weigh your options? Spend just a couple of sentences setting up the adversity and then spend most of the essay discussing how you addressed the problem.

 

[Davjc2009]

You aren't being judged by the severity of your problem. The adcom isn't interested in the intimate details of your troubles. The adcom wants to know what you do when you have your back to the wall. How do you deal with hardships/stress? Do you find that talking with someone helps/ do you work it out in the gym or on a long distance run/ do you turn to meditation or prayer/ rehearse what you'll say and do before you do what needs to be done/ refuse to be discouraged and work to figure out what went wrong/ write down & weigh your options? Spend just a couple of sentences setting up the adversity and then spend most of the essay discussing how you addressed the problem.

So any adversity will do as long as we show how we came through it? Because all I have is daddy abandonment and Significant Other of 5 years dumping me issues. None of which I particularly want to talk about.

 

[HoboCommander]

what about applying to med school? does that count as a personal struggle?

 

[rockydoc]

what about applying to med school? does that count as a personal struggle?

It sure as heck should be! For most of us here this is just about the hardest thing we have gone through....I think that should be enough....its like they want a bunch of masochists in med school or something...the fact that we made it to this point should be proof enough of how we handle hardship

 

[primadonna22274]

So like gee, I got through PA school in 2000 married to my first husband who wasn't very supportive, and became less so as I entered clinical practice, then separated from him in 2001 after spending half our lives together, then briefly remarried (duh) and divorced again half a year later...then paid off $50k of debt working 2 jobs over 5 years and somehow managed to find love again, moved cross country, and now am striving to get into med school, that I should have done in the first place 10 years ago?
Would that show how I deal with adversity? 😎

 

[HoboCommander]

It sure as heck should be! For most of us here this is just about the hardest thing we have gone through....I think that should be enough....its like they want a bunch of masochists in med school or something...the fact that we made it to this point should be proof enough of how we handle hardship

I know huh! Let me tell you that I've lived homeless on the streets for 3 months eating salt crackers and it does not even compare to the pain of the med school application process.

 

[Mobius1985]

I, too, had trouble coming up with an essay that wouldn't rip me apart to tell about it.

I finally wrote about a horrible roommate situation, all the things I did trying to deal with it, that nothing helped, and concluded that sometimes, despite the best will in the world to make things better, you can't make a difference, and it's not your fault. But at least I demonstrated that I tried hard and learned to come to peace with the situation.

 

[LizzyM]

I, too, had trouble coming up with an essay that wouldn't rip me apart to tell about it.

I finally wrote about a horrible roommate situation, all the things I did trying to deal with it, that nothing helped, and concluded that sometimes, despite the best will in the world to make things better, you can't make a difference, and it's not your fault. But at least I demonstrated that I tried hard and learned to come to peace with the situation.

I like that because it might, in an adcom's mind, show some relevance to a bad relationship with a patient sometimes, despite the best will in the world to make things better, you can't make a difference, and it's not your fault.

See it isn't about the severity of the hardship but it is about the maturity with which you dealt with it and how that will spill over into the way you deal with med school & your career in medicine.

 

[Diksha]

Write about MIDDLE SCHOOL. Or, if applicable, HIGH SCHOOL. Write about when you were 16.

If they weren't traumatizing for you, you are blessed.

 

[tulip08]

I applied last year and was faced with this question. I had some adverse incidents happen to me but like you, I didn't really want to write about them. So I talked about a challenge I took up and how I overcame obstacles. I talked about a student organization and how I overcame obstacles while working with it. And I got into all three schools I wrote this essay for, if it helps.

 

[LizzyM]

Write about MIDDLE SCHOOL. Or, if applicable, HIGH SCHOOL. Write about when you were 16.

If they weren't traumatizing for you, you are blessed.

Not a good strategy. The adcom is more interested in how you, as an adult, have developed a means of dealing with difficulties. You are bound to face adversity in med school and in your career. If your coping mechanism is to drink hard, drive fast, break things, blame others or sit in the corner and cry, you are going to have even more trouble.

 

[XRanger]

So we can't write about adversity during our youth? Because since high school I've had a pretty stable life.
But I've had adversity during middle school when I first moved to U.S. knowing little english with just my dad cause my mom and my siblings didn't get the visa that time. And during that time my dad got into a serious car accident and had to be hospitalized for a week so I had to live with stranger for a couple days.

 

[Alex0128]

I, too, had trouble coming up with an essay that wouldn't rip me apart to tell about it.

I finally wrote about a horrible roommate situation, all the things I did trying to deal with it, that nothing helped, and concluded that sometimes, despite the best will in the world to make things better, you can't make a difference, and it's not your fault. But at least I demonstrated that I tried hard and learned to come to peace with the situation.

Ha! Funny you mentioned that. I started writing about my 1st semester freshmen year roommate yesterday. All I can say is, horrible. Absolutely horrible. I came. I tried. I moved out.

Some people just don't want to compromise, or be nice for that matter.

AB

 

[Dienekes]

For most of us here this is just about the hardest thing we have gone through

If that is the case, and I mean no offense by this, you all have lived very sheltered lives.

 

[LizzyM]

So we can't write about adversity during our youth? Because since high school I've had a pretty stable life.
But I've had adversity during middle school when I first moved to U.S. knowing little english with just my dad cause my mom and my siblings didn't get the visa that time. And during that time my dad got into a serious car accident and had to be hospitalized for a week so I had to live with stranger for a couple days.

You can write about whatever you want. I'm just telling you what is most effective in communicating to the medical school admissions committee the strategies and experiences that you'll bring to bear when you face difficulties in the future. How do the strategies that you used when living with a stranger for a few days relate to how you'll deal with a difficult situation that you are sure to face as a third year student in the hospital?

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

You can write about whatever you want. I'm just telling you what is most effective in communicating to the medical school admissions committee the strategies and experiences that you'll bring to bear when you face difficulties in the future. How do the strategies that you used when living with a stranger for a few days relate to how you'll deal with a difficult situation that you are sure to face as a third year student in the hospital?

That was my understanding in general of the intent of this type of questions, main areas to address are:

1) How does the applicant respond to something really bad? My read on the best type of answer: assess the situation, figure out what you can, and cannot change, change what you can, and learn from the situation so that it comes out better next time.

2) how does the applicant respond to serious stress? What coping mechanisms has the applicant found personally helpful when stuff really hits the fan? What type of example can the applicant talk about that shows how they respond when things are really, really bad?

I'd agree about this being a very tough question, likely a question intending to assess an individual's maturity and life experience as well as coping mechanisms. But just like a person can't really go into medicine without gaining clinical experience, it seems a fair adcom question to ask what stress an applicant has faced so they can assess if the applicant can handle the stress of medicine.

 

[LizzyM]

That was my understanding in general of the intent of this type of questions, main areas to address are:

1) How does the applicant respond to something really bad? My read on the best type of answer: assess the situation, figure out what you can, and cannot change, change what you can, and learn from the situation so that it comes out better next time.

There are situations where it is appropriate to write that you assessed the situtation, did what you could, and called in professional assistance (e.g. getting help for a roommate with a psychiatric condition). Having the humility to know when you are over your head is good characteristic in someone who is still 2 years away from being the low man on the clinical totem pole.

 

[zenlike]

I'm having an issue with essays of this sort as well. The only real adversity I've really had were crappy family problems. And, I'm not sure what more you can do as a kid in the situation other than weather the storm until it's over or until you can get out of the situation.

Personally, I'm rather stoic. I'm not terribly emotional and I don't get very stressed out. If something does bother me, I just assume tough it out. But I get the distinct impression that adcoms might frown on that sort of attitude.

 

[littlealex]

You don't have uh... other examples?
Your life can have more than one struggle.

 

[ButImLETired]

I find that I have way more trouble coming up with an essay for the "toughest decision" essay than with the struggle one. The struggle one is very personal, and everyone can come up with SOMETHING (even something as minor as a roommate) and have a good thesis. But toughest decision? I'm 22! I have lived a pretty unusual life so I'm hardly sheltered, but good God, I don't think I've ever had to make the kind of decision they seem to expect me to have made...
What are you guys writing for those essays?

Also, about the personal struggle essay, it often asks stuff like "who did you turn to". I find that when I'm going through something really tough I just kind of deal with it on my own- I don't go to a family member or priest or psychiatrist. But I feel like that sort of "well, I suck it up and deal with it" attitude is not really what they're looking for. The advice and support thing works better for me if it's a relatively small, less personal issue. Any thoughts?

 

[EBI831]

In high school, my english teacher made us write sample college admissions essays on adversity we'd faced. Well, I went to a pretty posh school so when the essays came back the teacher got pissed b/c the kids at her old school (one in the inner city) had written about rape, poverty, etc and all our class wrote about was losing football games, divorces, etc. And, I think everyone seems to be in the same frame of mind as my washed-up, dead end english teacher who despite dreams of writing broadway plays was stuck teaching high school english with little respect.
Adversity doesn't need to be big black abyss of moodiness. Write about losing state after all the hard work you put in. Write about that college class that gave you a hard time (maybe an english class that you thought was tough). write about transitioning into college. write about trying out to be a TA, tour guide in college, president of some club that you didn't get. write about a club you were part of/founded that didn't turn out how you expected (ie too many roadblocks, not enough dedication). write about that summer job that was hellish (washing tubes or running gels with no results) or about that dream internship you didn't get. then, tie it back to med school and the lesson learned. shoot, i wrote about getting put in a different dorm from all my friends and how i grew from it. the adcoms aren't looking for a bucketfull of psych cases....they just wanna know that you learn from experiences.

 

[Lacheln]

I think the point of these essays isn't to tell a sob story, it's to reassure the adcoms that you have developed the skills you will need when you're dealing with the pressure cooker of med school and residency. The story doesn't have to be tragic or dramatic, it just has to show that you can deal with stress and/or failure and come back stronger. Learn from your mistakes, take advantage of your resources, etc.

"I got my midterm grade back and was really disappointed. (failure) After talking with my friends (social support), however, I went to the TA and asked for extra help (recruiting resources). I learned to do my studying in smaller chunks rather than pull all-nighters (learned from mistakes, time-management). I also found my club soccer team to be a great stress reliever as I put forth this renewed effort (stress-management). I got an A on the final and in the class (triumph)."

Or

"My boyfriend cheated on me. (failure) I dumped him immediately (learning from mistakes), and after consulting with my girlfriends (social support) we decided to go to the hardware store and buy some spray paint (resourcefulness), which we used to paint '*****' on his car so that no one else would make the same mistake (helping others avoid our mistakes, triumph)."

Or, you know, whatever might apply in your situation.

 

[TheElement]

Can this be something like fear of public speaking?

 

[schwinn]

Waking up every day could be a struggle? Hahaha

 

[pianola]

Oh my goodness! I'm so glad someone posted this thread! The adversity question is getting to be my worst nightmare 👎

Part of the problem for me is that I rarely, if ever, view my life in terms of "adversity". To me, adversity seems to refer to some force acting outside of my control -- and, by and large, my life has been within my control. Do you guys have thoughts on this?

Like other people are saying, I've had my share of personal issues that I have no intention of discussing with some random ADCOM I've never met. However, overall, I've been extremely fortunate and I'm thankful every single day for my good luck.

 

[TheElement]

Oh my goodness! I'm so glad someone posted this thread! The adversity question is getting to be my worst nightmare 👎

Part of the problem for me is that I rarely, if ever, view my life in terms of "adversity". To me, adversity seems to refer to some force acting outside of my control -- and, by and large, my life has been within my control. Do you guys have thoughts on this?

Like other people are saying, I've had my share of personal issues that I have no intention of discussing with some random ADCOM I've never met. However, overall, I've been extremely fortunate and I'm thankful every single day for my good luck.

I was going to do exactly what you said...write about how I've been very fortunate but then again, it seems like the essay is supposed to be about how you deal with stress so I'm not sure if it would fly.

 

[pianola]

I was going to do exactly what you said...write about how I've been very fortunate but then again, it seems like the essay is supposed to be about how you deal with stress so I'm not sure if it would fly.

One of my family members actually suggested I answer the prompt with a brief statement that I consider myself very fortunate, etc. as I wrote above. Truth be told, my instinctive answer to the question is more or less that "Through hard work and good luck, I've managed to avoid what I would term adversity. I consider myself fortunate and I'm certainly very thankful for my good luck." How treacherous is this, anyway?

As always, I'd definitely be interested in knowing what LizzyM thinks about the "brief statement of good fortune" type of response.

 

[schismal]

One of my family members actually suggested I answer the prompt with a brief statement that I consider myself very fortunate, etc. as I wrote above. Truth be told, my instinctive answer to the question is more or less that "Through hard work and good luck, I've managed to avoid what I would term adversity. I consider myself fortunate and I'm certainly very thankful for my good luck." How treacherous is this, anyway?

I can identify with your problem here very well. However, I'd be more inclined to suck it up and write on the uncomfortable topics before telling an adcom that I haven't experienced adversity. Doing so might be viewed as a cop out response, and worse yet, it may even poison their opinion of you as a future doctor--if you haven't experienced adversity after 20+ years, how could you possibly relate to your patients?

 

[chad5871]

One of my family members actually suggested I answer the prompt with a brief statement that I consider myself very fortunate, etc. as I wrote above. Truth be told, my instinctive answer to the question is more or less that "Through hard work and good luck, I've managed to avoid what I would term adversity. I consider myself fortunate and I'm certainly very thankful for my good luck." How treacherous is this, anyway?

As always, I'd definitely be interested in knowing what LizzyM thinks about the "brief statement of good fortune" type of response.

Don't know about LizzyM, but I would see it as the easy way out.

 

[gasdf1234567]

One of my family members actually suggested I answer the prompt with a brief statement that I consider myself very fortunate, etc. as I wrote above. Truth be told, my instinctive answer to the question is more or less that "Through hard work and good luck, I've managed to avoid what I would term adversity. I consider myself fortunate and I'm certainly very thankful for my good luck." How treacherous is this, anyway?

As always, I'd definitely be interested in knowing what LizzyM thinks about the "brief statement of good fortune" type of response.

Describe a personal experience which resulted in a substantial moral or ethical dilemma. What was the outcome? We are reluctant to accept assertions that you have never encountered such a situation.

That's from the Pitt secondary last year. It's different than the general adversity topic but still, it won't be a good idea to just say that you've had good fortune.

Honestly if you can't think of anything, make something up or stretch the truth on something that happened to you.

 

[Textuality]

I posted this on the PItt thread in response to the "moral dilemma" thread, but thought it might be helpful here:

"But really, we've all had moral dilema's growing up I think. The essay I wrote for Pitt (and I ended up with an acceptance there, so it couldn't have been too bad) was about when I was in high school and hung out with the really artsy crowd, took part in the school's new LGBT, and dressed very oddly (I kind of looked like a goth hipster, haha). Anyways, I went to a really conservative highschool, and got a lot of crap for the way I dressed, from both teachers and students because I was kind of an oddball. I didn't particularly care. I had the conviction that my taste in eccentric clothing was not at all a reflection of my intellectual capabilities or the quality of my ethical character, and I had a right to dress how I wanted. And I liked having pink hair.

But come senior year, I got a lot of pressure from friends and counselors to get a makeover, because they said that my eccentric dress code might affect the quality of my LORs from some of my teachers. So my ethical dilemma was where to draw the line between being myself, and "playing the game". Was I being stubborn and unreasonable for liking to die my hair funny colors? Or was I just proudly exercising my right to self expression? Should I change my appearance to conform with what was expected of someone pursuing my path, was that just being smart or was that giving in to peer pressure?

Anyways, that was my anecodote, and it's not that dramatic, lol. I think all of us, in the process of growing up, has our morals and ethics challenged by others, or just come to realize that "life's not fair" and we have to adjust to reality and make a decision about how to deal with it.

But if you're having trouble thinking of something, try reflecting on any time you maybe had to make a tough decision, or made a decision knowing that there would be repercussions. Why did you end up doing what you did? Is there anything you're particularly proud of, or wish you hadn't done? Have you ever had to defend your actions or fight for action to be taken? Really, you can argue two sides for almost any decisions you make in your life. For example, I'm sure we've all lied to or disobeyed our parents/authority at some point, that's a moral decision right there. I think the adcom just wants to see how your ethical reasoning skills are, what you can take away from your experiences, and if you can see the big picture in your actions. I don't think they're looking for you to demonstrate you're a hero or anything.

Hope my example helped, hehe. Good luck guys! Pitt's a great school!"

 

[Raryn]

Describe a personal experience which resulted in a substantial moral or ethical dilemma. What was the outcome? We are reluctant to accept assertions that you have never encountered such a situation.

That's from the Pitt secondary last year. It's different than the general adversity topic but still, it won't be a good idea to just say that you've had good fortune.

Honestly if you can't think of anything, make something up or stretch the truth on something that happened to you.

That one is even worse. I have no idea...

 

[pianola]

I do have something that I could write about and I think I could explain my argument decently...the moral or ethical dilemma ideas posted by textuality are also really good starting points, it seems to me. However, the situation I might describe, strictly-speaking should not qualify as adversity, IMHO.

I guess it'll just be important to qualify my statement with recognition of the fact that no, I have never experienced homelessness, significant illness, major natural disasters, car accidents, death of a loved one, verbal or physical abuse, sexism (for the most part), racism, divorce, bankruptcy, etc. etc. etc.

Yeah, I'm lucky, I guess.