Advice. Cut between two paths.

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SnoLidz

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Hello everyone. So I'm currently in need of some advice. I have searched and read through the various forums of students making a decision between both medical school or PA school. However, I'm still stuck. I have shadowed both extensively and still have doubts. I tend to take a long time making decisions.

I just wanted some perspective of doctors who have been through arduous medical training. Most of the docs I have shadowed have warned me and seem very jaded.

I really liked undergrad (much better than high school, an average student in hs). Graduated with overall GPA 3.98. 3.94 science? Something close to that. BS degree. Went to a state school top 10 in the country. Loved research. Completed my senior thesis with co-author publication and international poster presentation. Leadership positions. Various part time jobs during school. I'm one year out of school and currently work in a level 1 trauma. It's extemely exciting. The patient poplulation is the medicaid/medicare folks. I started as a PCT now am EMT in the ER. Will have the necessary patient care hours for PA. I love working with patients and am excited to be acquiring more training. I can't see myself really in anything but PA or Medicine. I shadowed dentists but was extremely bored. Debt is also concerning. 500 k for NYU dental? Lol what is wrong with this world.Education debt bubble will pop with this kind of crap. My parents are not paying for grad school or any costs. They already did more than enough and I graduated UG debt free. Extremely thankful for that. Regardless, they shouldn't either.

I'm a hardworker but I cherish my personal time. I'm constantly out with friends, going out, spend lots of time with significant other, love to travel. I like medicine but not sure if taking the plunge is what I want to do. I like ER medicine but can definitely see myself in FM IM or Peds. Specialities are nice but I'm not so great with standardized testing. Not horrible but its not my strong suit. Hence, idk if I wanna ride the chance on USMLE to match me. PAs work in every specialty. Lateral mobility is extremely appealing. I can definitely see myself happy as a PA but some of their negatives (respect, scope of practice, less pay) are making me hesistant. I'm not sure if this training will give me the skills needed to treat patients as much as I'd like to. When I tell my friends that I'm shooting for PA I'm met with weird looks and discouraging sentiments. They feel as I'm settling. It used to bother me but then I realized these people have no idea what PAs actually do. The assistant title throws them off.

I had a very skewed viewpoint of the PA profession while in undergrad but after working things have changed dramatically. Undergrad bubble surrounded by premed gunners. I drank the punch lol. On similar note, the opportunity cost of medical school is large though and the debt load is significant...with interest oh boy. Indentured servitude much?

All the PAs I have shadowed are excellent knowledgeable clinicians who have a great work/life balance. The latter is extremely important to me but I guess since I know I can do med school should I strive for that just bc I have the application for it?

So my question, what drove you all to medicine? Is it worth it in the end? Do you have any regrets? How do you view PA? With the future is healthcare unsteady as it is what advice would you give to your own children? Thanks everyone for the help.
 
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Been a lurker for a while now. Again thanks for the advice everyone.
 
When you are 50 will you want to ask a 29 y/o doctor for permission to start your patient on a certain medication? When you meet a cute girl will you want to explain that you aren't actually an assistant...you see the name is historical but really you have like 80% of the training of a doct..hey where are you going?
 
Hello everyone. So I'm currently in need of some advice. I have searched and read through the various forums of students making a decision between both medical school or PA school. However, I'm still stuck. I have shadowed both extensively and still have doubts. I tend to take a long time making decisions.

I just wanted some perspective of doctors who have been through arduous medical training. Most of the docs I have shadowed have warned me and seem very jaded.

I really liked undergrad (much better than high school, an average student in hs). Graduated with overall GPA 3.98. 3.94 science? Something close to that. BS degree. Went to a state school top 10 in the country. Loved research. Completed my senior thesis with co-author publication and international poster presentation. Leadership positions. Various part time jobs during school. I'm one year out of school and currently work in a level 1 trauma. It's extemely exciting. The patient poplulation is the medicaid/medicare folks. I started as a PCT now am EMT in the ER. Will have the necessary patient care hours for PA. I love working with patients and am excited to be acquiring more training. I can't see myself really in anything but PA or Medicine. I shadowed dentists but was extremely bored. Debt is also concerning. 500 k for NYU dental? Lol what is wrong with this world.
Education debt bubble will pop with this kind of crap.
My parents are not paying for grad school or any costs. They already did more than enough and I graduated UG debt free. Extremely thankful for that. Regardless, they shouldn't either.

I'm a hardworker but I cherish my personal time. I'm constantly out with friends, going out, spend lots of time with significant other, love to travel. I like medicine but not sure if taking the plunge is what I want to do. I like ER medicine but can definitely see myself in FM IM or Peds. Specialities are nice but I'm not so great with standardized testing. Not horrible but its not my strong suit. Hence, idk if I wanna ride the chance on USMLE to match me. PAs work in every specialty. Lateral mobility is extremely appealing. I can definitely see myself happy as a PA but some of their negatives (respect, scope of practice, less pay) are making me hesistant. I'm not sure if this training will give me the skills needed to treat patients as much as I'd like to. When I tell my friends that I'm shooting for PA I'm met with weird looks and discouraging sentiments. They feel as I'm settling. It used to bother me but then I realized these people have no idea what PAs actually do. The assistant title throws me off.

I had a very skewed viewpoint of the PA profession while in undergrad but after working things have changed dramatically. Undergrad bubble surrounded by premed gunners. I drank the punch lol. On similar note, the opportunity cost of medical school is large though and the debt load is significant...with interest oh boy. Indentured servitude much?

All the PAs I have shadowed are excellent knowledgeable clinicians who have a great work/life balance. The latter is extremely important to me but I guess since I know I can do med school should I strive for that just bc I have the application for it?

So my question, what drove you all to medicine? Is it worth it in the end? Do you have any regrets? How do you view PA? With the future is healthcare unsteady as it is what advice would you give to your own children? Thanks everyone for the help.
You listed all the high points for PA (work/lifestyle balance, lateral mobility, less schooling/debt, less reimbursement). You sound very accomplished and I'm sure that you would do well in any allo/osteo program, but it's a long and costly road to travel when what you really seem to want is mobility and flexibility, which is something that's in progressively short supply for doctors nowadays.

You're right about pre-med arrogance towards PA training; it is totally undeserved. Just be careful with your own impressions though, because with only a bit of clinical experience it's easy to fall under the illusion that PA = MD lite. Regardless of what you might see from an outside perspective, there is a huge gulf of knowledge and experience between the two that will become more apparent as you progress through your training. This was a huge sticking point for me as I could in no way rationalize working so hard only to always have the second best training/knowledge base in the room.

Reimbursement is obviously better but you're saddled with significantly more liability and responsibility. You need to decide what is a bigger factor for you personally. Mo' money, mo' problems.
 
You listed all the high points for PA (work/lifestyle balance, lateral mobility, less schooling/debt, less reimbursement). You sound very accomplished and I'm sure that you would do well in any allo/osteo program, but it's a long and costly road to travel when what you really seem to want is mobility and flexibility, which is something that's in progressively short supply for doctors nowadays.

You're right about pre-med arrogance towards PA training; it is totally undeserved. Just be careful with your own impressions though, because with only a bit of clinical experience it's easy to fall under the illusion that PA = MD lite. Regardless of what you might see from an outside perspective, there is a huge gulf of knowledge and experience between the two that will become more apparent as you progress through your training. This was a huge sticking point for me as I could in no way rationalize working so hard only to always have the second best training/knowledge base in the room.

Reimbursement is obviously better but you're saddled with significantly more liability and responsibility. You need to decide what is a bigger factor for you personally. Mo' money, mo' problems.

Biggie was right about a few things haha. Yeah I do realize there is a large knowledge difference but thats what comes with the more time in school. PAs are not and will not be doctors. As a doc, you do and should know more. It's hard to say if I will be content with the training I recieve down the road. All my friends going into med school seem to REALLY want it. The debt doesn't bother them one bit. The other poster. I would hope my future wife would not be pretentious like that haha. Would not want to be with a person who is dating me due to my career choices.
 
My friend suggested I watch Doctors Diaries. I did. I liked the documentary until post residency. It was tough to watch :/
 
Biggie was right about a few things haha. Yeah I do realize there is a large knowledge difference but thats what comes with the more time in school. PAs are not and will not be doctors. As a doc, you do and should know more. It's hard to say if I will be content with the training I recieve down the road. All my friends going into med school seem to REALLY want it. The debt doesn't bother them one bit. The other poster. I would hope my future wife would not be pretentious like that haha. Would not want to be with a person who is dating me due to my career choices.

A lot of them are just naive and clueless about debt burden. Many med students come from wealthy families. (just based on what I see around me)
 
Biggie was right about a few things haha. Yeah I do realize there is a large knowledge difference but thats what comes with the more time in school. PAs are not and will not be doctors. As a doc, you do and should know more. It's hard to say if I will be content with the training I recieve down the road. All my friends going into med school seem to REALLY want it. The debt doesn't bother them one bit. The other poster. I would hope my future wife would not be pretentious like that haha. Would not want to be with a person who is dating me due to my career choices.
This was the topic of another (derailed) thread, but students are notoriously price insensitive when it comes to their education if they are able to obtain long term loans. People who aren't bothered by the debt just don't know any better.
 
The debt also isn't a big deal if you get a specialty other than primary care. Of course you won't know your specialty until you've already taken on all of the debt, which is the primary risk. There's also the military option. You lose control over your life for a period of a decade, but you can be assured that you'll be both a physician and not bankrupt.

Whether you choose PA or Doc is really up to your personality. Many of us are type A. I would not be satisfied playing second fiddle for the rest of my life, with my career advancement permanently capped because I didn't do a few more years of schooling/residency early on.

Sit down and gather all of the data. I'm not going to do it for you, because this is not my decision to make. Look up the average wages of each (both low-pay specialty and high-pay specialty for physicians, since you cannot predict), look up the average cost of attendance for medical school and PA school, and build an excel spreadsheet. Carefully consider the financial implications of each decision, and then balance that with lifestyle factors.
 
Hello everyone. So I'm currently in need of some advice. I have searched and read through the various forums of students making a decision between both medical school or PA school. However, I'm still stuck. I have shadowed both extensively and still have doubts. I tend to take a long time making decisions.

.


I think the answer has to depend on what you want from your career. The education is an investment, and is worthwhile if it is what you want.

If you view it as something to "suffer through" in order to get to care for patients, I think that PA/NP might be a more viable path. The training is much shorter, the pay is good, and in the end you'll get to take care of people.

A MD leaves you with increased ability to do research, more opportunities to do research during school, a higher pay ceiling, more autonomy, better training, and the ability to sub-specialize. The path into business/admin/big pharma is also available, although relatively few take it.

I love the science behind medicine about as much as I love working with people. I think it's worth it because it's not that painful for me (I enjoy classes), I want to teach, I want to do research, I think I'm interested in a specialized field at the end of residency, I want a higher level of training, and I'll still be happy even if I end up in a field where I "could have been a PA."

You'll have to figure out if it's worth it to you. I hope you're happy with whatever choice you make 🙂
 
Right now, you are quite likely more intelligent than most of your classmates who will be going to medical school. If you are OK being less qualified/viewed as less intelligent/not able to make final clinical decisions, then OK, do PA without hesitation. If that would eat at you (it would eat at me), then consider MD training more fully. I have a hard time advising someone so gifted to not fully use their gifts.
 
Right now, you are quite likely more intelligent than most of your classmates who will be going to medical school. If you are OK being less qualified/viewed as less intelligent/not able to make final clinical decisions, then OK, do PA without hesitation. If that would eat at you (it would eat at me), then consider MD training more fully. I have a hard time advising someone so gifted to not fully use their gifts.

I hate thinking and saying stuff like this but I know some people that I went to school with and they got acceptances recently. I was thinking "No way...damn". So I'm gonna be under them? Really? Lol. Horrible to think like that but I was just flabbergasted. Mind you they are in an osteo program but still. That was essetially the reason why I decided to go ahead and post this. I felt like an awful person for thinking that.

As for people thinking you're dumb...Working has a tech definitely makes you laugh sometimes because people think you're dumb as a rock. I pretend to actually be dumb quite often. It's hilarious lol
 
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You probably shouldn't be giving financial advice in the allopathic forum as a pre-med.

You think I'm some young kid. I'm in my 30's, and am starting medical school next year. I had an entirely different career prior to medical school. I carefully weighed my options myself recently, so I think I'm actually in a strong position to give financial advice. Do you think that having a few semesters more knowledge of subjects like anatomy and biochemistry make you a financial expert? You're not even a physician, you're just a student.
 
You think I'm some young kid. I'm in my 30's, and am starting medical school next year. I had an entirely different career prior to medical school. I carefully weighed my options myself recently, so I think I'm actually in a strong position to give financial advice. Do you think that having a few semesters more knowledge of subjects like anatomy and biochemistry make you a financial expert? You're not even a physician, you're just a student.

no but looking at the numbers on paper, vs a paper with your name attached to it is a significant difference. plus there are 10000 hidden costs. I'd add at least 10-15 % to whatever estimates you make about cost because you'll pretty much never estimate high enough
 
You think I'm some young kid. I'm in my 30's, and am starting medical school next year. I had an entirely different career prior to medical school. I carefully weighed my options myself recently, so I think I'm actually in a strong position to give financial advice. Do you think that having a few semesters more knowledge of subjects like anatomy and biochemistry make you a financial expert? You're not even a physician, you're just a student.

You will be the poster child for the annoying, know it all non trad medical student. Hell, you might even give NontradCA a run for the title.
 
You think I'm some young kid. I'm in my 30's, and am starting medical school next year. I had an entirely different career prior to medical school. I carefully weighed my options myself recently, so I think I'm actually in a strong position to give financial advice. Do you think that having a few semesters more knowledge of subjects like anatomy and biochemistry make you a financial expert? You're not even a physician, you're just a student.

🙄

I never accused you of being "some young kid," and I don't think it matters much. What does matter is actual experience. And access to information that you don't have as a pre-med (i.e. you don't have access to AAMC reimbursement data until you actually start medical school). You may be more financially savvy than most, which is great. But you have a long way to go before you gain the experience necessary to have any kind of authority on the subject.
 
no but looking at the numbers on paper, vs a paper with your name attached to it is a significant difference. plus there are 10000 hidden costs. I'd add at least 10-15 % to whatever estimates you make about cost because you'll pretty much never estimate high enough

Exactly.
 
Right now, you are quite likely more intelligent than most of your classmates who will be going to medical school. If you are OK being less qualified/viewed as less intelligent/not able to make final clinical decisions, then OK, do PA without hesitation. If that would eat at you (it would eat at me), then consider MD training more fully. I have a hard time advising someone so gifted to not fully use their gifts.
I can't speak for all specialties, but in Derm, PAs are well integrated and their roles defined as to the type of skin problems they are ok seeing. Those private practices that have them work under the Dermatologist. PAs have a clearly defined roles in these settings, and PAs tend to have much different goals as to what they want in their career vs. MDs in terms of knowledge base, lifestyle, etc. as well as ability to hop between specialties.
 
You will be the poster child for the annoying, know it all non trad medical student. Hell, you might even give NontradCA a run for the title.
Add Shjanzey onto that list.
 
You think I'm some young kid. I'm in my 30's, and am starting medical school next year. I had an entirely different career prior to medical school. I carefully weighed my options myself recently, so I think I'm actually in a strong position to give financial advice. Do you think that having a few semesters more knowledge of subjects like anatomy and biochemistry make you a financial expert? You're not even a physician, you're just a student.
Not this rigamarole again. Your quote of "The debt also isn't a big deal if you get a specialty other than primary care," is dangerous financially bc you know NOTHING about the match.
 
@SnoLidz - if you honestly think you can be content without autonomy, go the PA route. That is the most important factor IMO. If you are the kind of person who needs to be in charge and call the shots, going to medical school makes sense. If you can be happy without that (and many can), it would be foolish to go to medical school.
 
@SnoLidz - if you honestly think you can be content without autonomy, go the PA route. That is the most important factor IMO. If you are the kind of person who needs to be in charge and call the shots, going to medical school makes sense. If you can be happy without that (and many can), it would be foolish to go to medical school.
Considering physicians are losing a lot of autonomy anyways (as a whole, on average). I think being in charge and calling the shots is very limited to particular specialties, esp. with this new team-based interprofessional **** being started up, with med students rotating with people from other professions on their clerkships.
 
You think I'm some young kid. I'm in my 30's, and am starting medical school next year. I had an entirely different career prior to medical school. I carefully weighed my options myself recently, so I think I'm actually in a strong position to give financial advice. Do you think that having a few semesters more knowledge of subjects like anatomy and biochemistry make you a financial expert? You're not even a physician, you're just a student.

If there's anything I've learned during my time in med school, it was to listen to the more experienced students. I also came into medical school thinking that I was some hotshot knowing more than these other people who don't really care about patients and now I'm seeing patients and seeing how it is. However, I only had one year off so I didn't come in with the attitude of the older than most, experienced, knowledgeable non-trad. No one likes that guy. I'm also hearing from the older students what the match is like. As a third year student, I'm much more humble now than I used to be as I'm cognizant of how much I just don't know. Medical school is much more than just a few classes.
 
Right now, you are quite likely more intelligent than most of your classmates who will be going to medical school. If you are OK being less qualified/viewed as less intelligent/not able to make final clinical decisions, then OK, do PA without hesitation. If that would eat at you (it would eat at me), then consider MD training more fully. I have a hard time advising someone so gifted to not fully use their gifts.

Just cuz 3.95 GPA ---///--> gifted

give me a break
 
If there's anything I've learned during my time in med school, it was to listen to the more experienced students. I also came into medical school thinking that I was some hotshot knowing more than these other people who don't really care about patients and now I'm seeing patients and seeing how it is. However, I only had one year off so I didn't come in with the attitude of the older than most, experienced, knowledgeable non-trad. No one likes that guy. I'm also hearing from the older students what the match is like. As a third year student, I'm much more humble now than I used to be as I'm cognizant of how much I just don't know. Medical school is much more than just a few classes.
Experience is important -- the RIGHT experience, not just having more experience for the sake of it.
 
Right now, you are quite likely more intelligent than most of your classmates who will be going to medical school. If you are OK being less qualified/viewed as less intelligent/not able to make final clinical decisions, then OK, do PA without hesitation. If that would eat at you (it would eat at me), then consider MD training more fully. I have a hard time advising someone so gifted to not fully use their gifts.

I agree that op's undergrad accomplishments are impressive, but I probably wouldn't judge either his intelligence or his anyone else's by gpa and publishing status. I also think a sense of superiority is a poor reason to go to medical school. However, I'm guessing that neither you or op really meant that, so I'll leave it at that.


You think I'm some young kid. I'm in my 30's, and am starting medical school next year. I had an entirely different career prior to medical school. I carefully weighed my options myself recently, so I think I'm actually in a strong position to give financial advice. Do you think that having a few semesters more knowledge of subjects like anatomy and biochemistry make you a financial expert? You're not even a physician, you're just a student.


The finances are only a part of the argument for or against medical school. The training itself has it's own inherent costs and benefits that are comparable to the debt. You are completely unequipped to answer any questions about those costs.

You won't magically gain some new perspective on your first day of class, but at least you'll have some understanding of what's expected from you over the next 7+ years.

Good luck next year.
 
When you are 50 will you want to ask a 29 y/o doctor for permission to start your patient on a certain medication? When you meet a cute girl will you want to explain that you aren't actually an assistant...you see the name is historical but really you have like 80% of the training of a doct..hey where are you going?
When you are 30 will you want to ask a 29 y/o on a date but you can't because you're pulling 75 hour weeks in the hospital? But it's cool, because you aren't an assistant.

Go to PA school. It's like 2 years of training and you come out making $80-100k/yr working like 40 hours a week, and you can switch fields without having to re-do a grueling residency. If I could go back in time, I'd have gone to PA school.
 
Hey like I said I'm not the brighest crayon in the bunch but I work hard and probably should have spent less time out with friends enjoying college on my spare tine and more time figuring out my life. It's not like I didn't study for my coursework and just aced these classes. I was never the kid that was like "pshh dude I studied like 30 min before that biochem final and aced it..peasants"-direct quote from a douche. It was difficult for me to commit to something without working directly in the setting. Especially considering the amount of debt I would be undertaking in the process. One of my mentors (anaesthiologist) told me, "son the way things are these days, your best bet is PA/NP/CRNA or go be a Dentist the government keeps out of their ****. If you would have told me 20 years ago then my opinion would be different." Shadowing helped but working around these people and really seeing their day to day (in the ER nonetheless) helped me establish a better opinion.
 
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I'd add at least 10-15 % to whatever estimates you make about cost because you'll pretty much never estimate high enough

That statement completely conflicts with itself. It is common for companies to add a buffer for unanticipated costs. Individuals also do that. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out roughly how much you'll need to borrow, and it doesn't need to be exact down to even the nearest ten thousand.
 
Here is my take on PA vs MD.

MD is a pretty defined profession.

SOME PAs function exactly in the role of an MD. Some have slightly fewer privileges. Some are essentially professional residents who have almost no autonomy.

It all depends on the job you get and the role you create for yourself.

That being said, I would choose medical school 100 times over again.
There is no great profession that doesn't have its sacrifices. In the big picture, its a couple more years of training but its not as bad as SDN makes it out to be.
 
You will be the poster child for the annoying, know it all non trad medical student. Hell, you might even give NontradCA a run for the title.

You know what? If kids a few years further along in medical training than I am want to pretend that they're better than me, or more knowledgeable about subjects unrelated to medicine, then you're damn right I'll tell them how wrong they are. Many of you view medical trainees through a sort of rank structure. MS1<MS2<MS3<MS4<intern<resident<attending. Guess what, kiddo? Many of us don't fit that mold. If you knew what I did for a living prior to going to medical school, you wouldn't talk down to me and claim that I shouldn't give financial advice.
 
🙄

I never accused you of being "some young kid," and I don't think it matters much. What does matter is actual experience. And access to information that you don't have as a pre-med (i.e. you don't have access to AAMC reimbursement data until you actually start medical school). You may be more financially savvy than most, which is great. But you have a long way to go before you gain the experience necessary to have any kind of authority on the subject.

All of the financial loan data is available online, as are average physician salaries. It's not a mystery. If it were, you'd be a fool to agree to borrow $200,000 before knowing that you'll be able to pay it back. Although given your recent comments, perhaps you are.
 
All of the financial loan data is available online, as are average physician salaries. It's not a mystery. If it were, you'd be a fool to agree to borrow $200,000 before knowing that you'll be able to pay it back.

You missed the bigger point.

But just out of curiosity, where are you getting your physician reimbursement data?
 
Not this rigamarole again. Your quote of "The debt also isn't a big deal if you get a specialty other than primary care," is dangerous financially bc you know NOTHING about the match.

Are you claiming that I personally know nothing about the match? Or that your chance of not matching as a US MD student is a significant financial risk?

94.4 percent of U.S. allopathic seniors were matched to PGY-1 positions in 2014. Source: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2014.pdf .
 
If there's anything I've learned during my time in med school, it was to listen to the more experienced students. I also came into medical school thinking that I was some hotshot knowing more than these other people who don't really care about patients and now I'm seeing patients and seeing how it is. However, I only had one year off so I didn't come in with the attitude of the older than most, experienced, knowledgeable non-trad. No one likes that guy. I'm also hearing from the older students what the match is like. As a third year student, I'm much more humble now than I used to be as I'm cognizant of how much I just don't know. Medical school is much more than just a few classes.

Dude, just shut it. This thread was about financial advice, not medical advice. I'm not going to treated like an idiot just because my tag said "pre-med". You kids can embrace the pack mentality all you want; I certainly won't be deterred or intimidated from adding my two cents.
 
You know what? If kids a few years further along in medical training than I am want to pretend that they're better than me, or more knowledgeable about subjects unrelated to medicine, then you're damn right I'll tell them how wrong they are. Many of you view medical trainees through a sort of rank structure. MS1<MS2<MS3<MS4<intern<resident<attending. Guess what, kiddo? Many of us don't fit that mold. If you knew what I did for a living prior to going to medical school, you wouldn't talk down to me and claim that I shouldn't give financial advice.
Dude. Stop calling people "kiddo/kids/junior/tiger."
 
You need to stop raging
You don't know the first thing about the match. All you're doing is posting up random stats that you found online for salaries and loans and taking that as gospel. Here's the scoop princess, your tuition will probably jump up by thousands of dollars every year. You have no idea what the interest rate is going to be. You have no idea what the job prospects will be like in your chosen field by the time you graduate. You don't even know where you'll be going in 4 years
There's a big difference between the idea of borrowing $200,000 and actually having to start paying back the loan on a 50k resident salary, especially if you're planning on working at an academic institution in an expensive city
 
That statement completely conflicts with itself. It is common for companies to add a buffer for unanticipated costs. Individuals also do that. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out roughly how much you'll need to borrow, and it doesn't need to be exact down to even the nearest ten thousand.

well you go ahead and plan for how many interviews you're going on, how many review books you're going to buy, how many practice nbme you'll take, if you use rx, kaplan qbank, firecracker, step 1 and step 2 fees or random atlases because one of your profs tells you you need it the 2nd week of class. you're acting like prototypical non-trad. there's just a lot of stuff you won't be able to prepare for until you are there.
 
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