Advice for a First Time Applicant!

[catsmatchaandmedicine]

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Hi!

I'm new to SDN and I'm finalizing my list of schools to apply to for the 2025-2026 cycle. I'm the first one in my family trying to go into medical school so I'm a bit lost on how to pick and choose schools to apply to. Any help/advice is greatly appreciated!! 🙂

Here's some of my stats:

• CA resident
• Education:
  • UC school for undergrad
  • double majoring in Chemistry and Biology
  • GPA: 3.97
  • dean's honor list 10 quarters to date
  • ~1450 research hours in neuropharmacology lab (1 publication in undergraduate research journal + 1 poster)
• MCAT: 507 then 518!
• Extracurriculars:
  • VP of senior center volunteering club
    • ~100 hours as a general volunteer, ~150 hours working as VP
  • 3.5 years of experience working at campus bookstore (will add up hours, but at least 1000 hours here)
  • 5+ years of private tutoring in chemistry, physics and math (~3000 hours and counting)
  • ~100 hours volunteering in ED
  • pending clinical shadowing hours when I start as an MA end of this month (~25 hours/week from April - when I hopefully start medical school!)
  • ~ 50 hours undergraduate mentor
  • ~ 70 hours organic chemistry teaching/learning assistant
• Interests:
  • psychiatry/neurology (grandmother with Alzheimer's, strong pull towards medicine here), IM (familial issues)

This is my current list so far (some dream schools, I think I have more realistic/on par with my stats schools):

• Vanderbilt
• Harvard
• WashU
• Mayo Clinic Alix
• Northwestern
• Duke
• Cornell
• Stanford
• Baylor
• Boston University
• UMich
• USC
• Brown
• UCSF
• UT Southwestern
• UCSD
• UCI
• UNC Chapel Hill
• Dartmouth
• NYU Grossman Long Island
• UCLA
• Texas A&M
• Rosalind Franklin University (not sure)

Not sure about Texas schools because I know the residency bias is insane, but are there any other schools that are too much of a long shot to have?

Thank you for taking the time to read and reply!! 🙂

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Welcome to the forums.

I would like more details about what your volunteering club involvement is. With 100 hours of service to the seniors and 150 as an executive officer, you fall about 50 hours short of the minimum threshold for service orientation (which is 150 hours to avoid getting screened out at most schools). Do whatever you can to boost your face-to-face service hours, or carefully audit your hours. That said, if you intend to apply to brand-name schools, having fewer than 250 hours puts your application at risk because your involvement hours would be lower than the average high-metrics applicant.

As you are aware, your low clinical experience hours are more a concern that would screen you out, especially at brand-name schools. 100 hours as an emergency room volunteer is light; you need to get to at least 150 hours of combined shadowing or clinical volunteering/employment. Your Ma hours will help, but then you have to decide when you have "enough" than just the bare minimum hours to avoid getting screened out (150) vs. the minimum that keeps your application near the median of a high-metrics pool (250).

This leaves the important question: what is your purpose and expectation as a future physician of your medical school experience? Why should any of the schools on your list choose you? It's got to be more than just metrics because the high-metrics school will have their pick based on mission fit. So far, the description doesn't give me an argument to invite you to interview, so what is your pitch?

 

[catsmatchaandmedicine]

Welcome to the forums.

I would like more details about what your volunteering club involvement is. With 100 hours of service to the seniors and 150 as an executive officer, you fall about 50 hours short of the minimum threshold for service orientation (which is 150 hours to avoid getting screened out at most schools). Do whatever you can to boost your face-to-face service hours, or carefully audit your hours. That said, if you intend to apply to brand-name schools, having fewer than 250 hours puts your application at risk because your involvement hours would be lower than the average high-metrics applicant.

As you are aware, your low clinical experience hours are more a concern that would screen you out, especially at brand-name schools. 100 hours as an emergency room volunteer is light; you need to get to at least 150 hours of combined shadowing or clinical volunteering/employment. Your Ma hours will help, but then you have to decide when you have "enough" than just the bare minimum hours to avoid getting screened out (150) vs. the minimum that keeps your application near the median of a high-metrics pool (250).

This leaves the important question: what is your purpose and expectation as a future physician of your medical school experience? Why should any of the schools on your list choose you? It's got to be more than just metrics because the high-metrics school will have their pick based on mission fit. So far, the description doesn't give me an argument to invite you to interview, so what is your pitch?

Thank you so much!

For my volunteering club, we attend different senior living facilities around my university. We try to alleviate feelings of isolation, promote mental health awareness and practice bedside manner skills. I've been part of this club since my first year in college and we volunteer for about a hour a week (roughly 26 hours each academic year and I'm still volunteer as an EO). I also need to edit and add my involvement as an undergraduate mentor (roughly 26 hours per academic year as with the previous club). I'm definitely still trying to boost my hours and I'm wondering where tutoring would fall into it. I tutor about 8 hours per week and I've been doing so for the past year, just not sure where to include it.

I started started volunteering relatively recently in the ED and I plan on doing so in my gap year while applying too. My low clinical experience hours are my biggest worry for now. Even if I start beginning of April, I'll only have ~250 hours by the time I apply. Even if I continue working there while I'm through the application cycle, would this put me at a disadvantage?

I've been debating on taking another gap year or not but it's really not something I'm jumping at.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

For my volunteering club, we attend different senior living facilities around my university. We try to alleviate feelings of isolation, promote mental health awareness and practice bedside manner skills. I've been part of this club since my first year in college and we volunteer for about a hour a week (roughly 26 hours each academic year and I'm still volunteer as an EO). I also need to edit and add my involvement as an undergraduate mentor (roughly 26 hours per academic year as with the previous club). I'm definitely still trying to boost my hours and I'm wondering where tutoring would fall into it. I tutor about 8 hours per week and I've been doing so for the past year, just not sure where to include it.

I started started volunteering relatively recently in the ED and I plan on doing so in my gap year while applying too. My low clinical experience hours are my biggest worry for now. Even if I start beginning of April, I'll only have ~250 hours by the time I apply. Even if I continue working there while I'm through the application cycle, would this put me at a disadvantage?

I've been debating on taking another gap year or not but it's really not something I'm jumping at.

The concern I have (possible disadvantages you carry) is that your clinical hours (and perhaps your non-clinical community orientation impact) are low for someone with your metrics and desired school list. Your purpose for medicine needs to clearly connect your activities (which you haven't answered).

Tutoring/teaching/mentoring are academic competencies. Every prehealth applicant does this, so it doesn't help you stand out.

 

[catsmatchaandmedicine]

The concern I have (possible disadvantages you carry) is that your clinical hours (and perhaps your non-clinical community orientation impact) are low for someone with your metrics and desired school list. Your purpose for medicine needs to clearly connect your activities (which you haven't answered).

Tutoring/teaching/mentoring are academic competencies. Every prehealth applicant does this, so it doesn't help you stand out.

Completely understand and sorry for that! My grandma was diagnosed with Alzheimer's when I was in high school and it was mainly this event that propelled me into the extracurriculars I chose (the neuro lab had projects that aimed to understand the brain and how Alzheimer's effects it, I chose community service volunteering that was mainly in senior living facilities, and the ED that I volunteer at serves a population that's primarily 65+). While I don't think I'm bold enough to say I want to cure Alzheimer's, I think awareness of early signs might potentially help with prolonging its onset (I think this is where I can bring in my passion for teaching). I hope this helped to answer your question!

All of my commitments are ongoing up until I apply and beyond (on track to gain at least 70 more hours in ED by the time I apply, should gain more community service from my club, will start as an MA soon, etc), but is there anything else you think I can do to help stand out more? What about applying to fewer brand name schools? More CA schools?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Completely understand and sorry for that! My grandma was diagnosed with Alzheimer's when I was in high school and it was mainly this event that propelled me into the extracurriculars I chose (the neuro lab had projects that aimed to understand the brain and how Alzheimer's effects it, I chose community service volunteering that was mainly in senior living facilities, and the ED that I volunteer at serves a population that's primarily 65+). While I don't think I'm bold enough to say I want to cure Alzheimer's, I think awareness of early signs might potentially help with prolonging its onset (I think this is where I can bring in my passion for teaching). I hope this helped to answer your question!

All of my commitments are ongoing up until I apply and beyond (on track to gain at least 70 more hours in ED by the time I apply, should gain more community service from my club, will start as an MA soon, etc), but is there anything else you think I can do to help stand out more? What about applying to fewer brand name schools? More CA schools?

I don't think you're at the point to say you want to cure anything; otherwise, why not pursue a Ph.D.? Similarly, it's a lot of money and time to go to medical school to make the public aware of early signs of Alzheimer onset or raise money for care or treatment. You need to have a deeper purpose that reflects the impact physicians make.

You will deal with different patients, not just those with neurological challenges, at every medical school you want to attend. We need people to go into geriatrics, but as a medical student, you want to be open to all possibilities since that's how you will be trained.

Have you done your homework on the schools on the list? What opportunities offered by each school feed into your pursuit of medicine? Have you attended recruitment events (online or in-person)? Have you started pre-writing secondaries?

 

[Faha]

Your list is top heavy with your clinical and non clinical volunteering hours and the fact that some schools will average your MCAT scores.
I suggest these schools:
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Tufts
Rochester
New York Medical College
Albany
Hofstra
Einstein (free tuition)
Pittsburgh
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
George Washington
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
Wake Forest
Duke
Miami
USF Morsani
TCU
Washington University
Rosalind Franklin
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
U Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Ohio State
Iowa
Illinois
Colorado
USC Keck
The UCs (except Riverside unless you are from that region)
Kaiser
California University

 

[catsmatchaandmedicine]

I don't think you're at the point to say you want to cure anything; otherwise, why not pursue a Ph.D.? Similarly, it's a lot of money and time to go to medical school to make the public aware of early signs of Alzheimer onset or raise money for care or treatment. You need to have a deeper purpose that reflects the impact physicians make.

You will deal with different patients, not just those with neurological challenges, at every medical school you want to attend. We need people to go into geriatrics, but as a medical student, you want to be open to all possibilities since that's how you will be trained.

Have you done your homework on the schools on the list? What opportunities offered by each school feed into your pursuit of medicine? Have you attended recruitment events (online or in-person)? Have you started pre-writing secondaries?

During my time in my research lab, I learned it wasn't for me. I enjoyed the science and learning the techniques, but I wanted something where I could see my efforts have a direct impact. For me, medicine is more than just the science, but about communicating that science with the patients in a digestible way and helping them make informed decisions about their health. I am open to other specialties (internal medicine, derm, etc), but most of my ECs stemmed from my interactions with my grandmother.

I have done my homework on these schools, but I can look beyond their mission statement to get a better idea of where I'd fit in. I haven't attended any recruitment events or started pre-writing any secondaries. I do have a document that has all the secondary prompts from these schools I could find with notes for what I would write about for each. I'm focusing on my personal statement for now.

 

[catsmatchaandmedicine]

Your list is top heavy with your clinical and non clinical volunteering hours and the fact that some schools will average your MCAT scores.
I suggest these schools:
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Tufts
Rochester
New York Medical College
Albany
Hofstra
Einstein (free tuition)
Pittsburgh
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
George Washington
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
Wake Forest
Duke
Miami
USF Morsani
TCU
Washington University
Rosalind Franklin
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
U Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Ohio State
Iowa
Illinois
Colorado
USC Keck
The UCs (except Riverside unless you are from that region)
Kaiser
California University

Thank you Faha!

Do you think I have a reasonable shot at Duke, WashU, UMich or UCSD? These are some of the schools that I had on my list and I really like these programs!

 

[Faha]

Thank you Faha!

Do you think I have a reasonable shot at Duke, WashU, UMich or UCSD? These are some of the schools that I had on my list and I really like these programs!

Thank you Faha!

Do you think I have a reasonable shot at Duke, WashU, UMich or UCSD? These are some of the schools that I had on my list and I really like these programs!

You can try them as reaches.

 

[catsmatchaandmedicine]

You can try them as reaches.

Thank you!

Other than increasing my hours for extracurriculars, is there anything else you recommend to improve my chances?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

For me, medicine is more than just the science, but about communicating that science with the patients in a digestible way and helping them make informed decisions about their health. I am open to other specialties (internal medicine, derm, etc), but most of my ECs stemmed from my interactions with my grandmother.

Don't take this too flippantly, but you should become a journalist or go into public health (maybe that is your niche? Go get an MPH?). Being a doctor means navigating code switching between the heavy science/medical jargon of tests and processes to something understandable to patients and caregivers, so you HAVE to know your science jargon too.

By the way, that type of science literacy communication is an academic competency that I would expect even if you went into a research direction. Plenty of great science writers and journalists have Ph.D.'s and do quite a job explaining really challenging concepts to the public whether it's for educational material/curricula, museum exhibitions, podcasts/newspapers, or the editorial sections of Science/Nature/NEJM/etc. Communication is one of many competencies we expect from physicians, but communicating with the public well is not exclusive to physicians.

I have done my homework on these schools, but I can look beyond their mission statement to get a better idea of where I'd fit in. I haven't attended any recruitment events or started pre-writing any secondaries. I do have a document that has all the secondary prompts from these schools I could find with notes for what I would write about for each. I'm focusing on my personal statement for now.

If you had done a good job with homework, your list wouldn't be so top-heavy. You should check out the websites beyond the admissions information at each program Faha suggested. The ones that have the most resources likely have the opportunities, so you need more to know your fit. The richest person you could meet/signal through your dating app is not necessarily the right person to get married to.

 

[catsmatchaandmedicine]

Don't take this too flippantly, but you should become a journalist or go into public health (maybe that is your niche? Go get an MPH?). Being a doctor means navigating code switching between the heavy science/medical jargon of tests and processes to something understandable to patients and caregivers, so you HAVE to know your science jargon too.

By the way, that type of science literacy communication is an academic competency that I would expect even if you went into a research direction. Plenty of great science writers and journalists have Ph.D.'s and do quite a job explaining really challenging concepts to the public whether it's for educational material/curricula, museum exhibitions, podcasts/newspapers, or the editorial sections of Science/Nature/NEJM/etc. Communication is one of many competencies we expect from physicians, but communicating with the public well is not exclusive to physicians.


If you had done a good job with homework, your list wouldn't be so top-heavy. You should check out the websites beyond the admissions information at each program Faha suggested. The ones that have the most resources likely have the opportunities, so you need more to know your fit. The richest person you could meet/signal through your dating app is not necessarily the right person to get married to.

Like I previously mentioned, I joined the forums for some advice with other schools to look into. I did look into the schools I already had on my list and I knew they were top-heavy. I just needed some other options to balance it out and I wasn’t sure where to start. I do appreciate all your help and I am looking into schools Faha suggested.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Like I previously mentioned, I joined the forums for some advice with other schools to look into. I did look into the schools I already had on my list and I knew they were top-heavy. I just needed some other options to balance it out and I wasn’t sure where to start. I do appreciate all your help and I am looking into schools Faha suggested.

Definitely look at how much the schools give you opportunities to focus on patient communication in the way you feel is your strength. It could be with a public health program or it could be separate with student clubs. I'm just giving you questions to anticipate to clarify your choice and answer "why this school".

 

[catsmatchaandmedicine]

Definitely look at how much the schools give you opportunities to focus on patient communication in the way you feel is your strength. It could be with a public health program or it could be separate with student clubs. I'm just giving you questions to anticipate to clarify your choice and answer "why this school".

Thank you, I definitely will be looking deeper into the schools on my list, as well as the ones Faha suggested. I know my hours are my weak point now too, and I’m working on getting those up to be competitive.

 

[Faha]

Thank you!

Other than increasing my hours for extracurriculars, is there anything else you recommend to improve my chances?

More clinical and non volunteering hours before you submit your application.

 

[catsmatchaandmedicine]

More clinical and non volunteering hours before you submit your application.

Thank you! I'm still volunteering/working in all the positions I mentioned above (minus research), so I'll be able to get my hours up by June. Do you think that's enough time?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thank you! I'm still volunteering/working in all the positions I mentioned above (minus research), so I'll be able to get my hours up by June. Do you think that's enough time?

All we can say is "make it work." Do whatever you can to boost those hours.

 

[catsmatchaandmedicine]

All we can say is "make it work." Do whatever you can to boost those hours.

I appreciate that and I'll definitely do my best! Thank you again for all your help and advice!