Just looking for some opinions regarding finding that thing they call a job when I am done. I have heard a number of pro's and con's when it comes to looking for a job but it can be confusing. I am thinking about just cold calling some places in the areas I want to work and see if they are anticipating any openings. I will be doing a pain fellowship this next academic year but I am concerned that when I call they will think its to far out to consider hiring a new fellow. I have looked at some job sites but there is very little where I want to practice at (Washington, Idaho, Oregon, etc.). Should I call and ask to speak with the pain doc himself, his business manager? I hate to go the route of recruiters just based off of what I have heard but it may come to that. Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks.
Advice for cold calls vs recruiters
- Thread starter craigkes
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 230
- Reaction score
- 4
A good place to start is the local Medtronic, kyphon, stryker, ANS reps in markets you would like to work. They usually have great insight into where the good jobs are. They also would love to have helped place a doc in hopes of future business.
I had heard that a while back. I don't know any in the particular market I want to go to but I do know some in this market that I am in. I am assuming that the network isn't that big and he can lead me in the right direction.I appreciate the input.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2010
- Messages
- 13,318
- Reaction score
- 7,597
I would definitely cold call or pay a visit to the practices. If you find a practice you like, you might check on them again sometime during your fellowship. When you're done and ready to work, the practice already sort of "knows" you. If you are pushy or obnoxious, that will obviously work against you. But if you are respectful and professional, it will go a long way.
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 216
- Reaction score
- 35
It's never too early to start looking. There are way too few fellowship trained pain docs and so many places that would like to have one just don't bother to look. Cold calls show initiative and the worst that could happen is they say no and you move on. Where do you want to live and are you flexible about what you want your practice to look like?
I am really interested in the Northwest (Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana maybe) as I am from that area. As far as the practice I am fairly open. I don't want to work for a hospital if I don't have to because I like the idea of working for a private practice. I also would like to avoid in-house consults. Did those as a resident on my chronic pain rotation...not fun. It wouldn't be a complete deal breaker if a good hospital job popped up but not ideal.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2010
- Messages
- 2,547
- Reaction score
- 273
Man. Think of just doing your own thing. Especially in th ose areas you mentioned I doubt its hospital saturated
It honestly has crossed my mind. However, after this long brutal battle that is residency and fellowship I don't know that I have the stamina to go through setting up my own practice. There is a lot that I don't know regarding the business aspect. Although I have been working on this part I am not sure I would be ready to tackle that directly out of fellowship. I am keeping the option open though. Appreciate the idea.
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 216
- Reaction score
- 35
There is a practice manager who works the I-5 corridor in Oregon who could make setting up your own practice much easier, and likely people in other areas who could do the same. There are a couple of non-MD business managers in this area who are setting up facilities and looking for docs to step in, one I would recommend and one I wouldn't. You could join a multispecialty group and use their resources to help set up your practice, but they are usually ignorant about the specifics of pain. You could join an ortho or neurosurgery group and have a great referral base in house. You could set up an agreement with a hospital in which you save money by using their resources, but are not an employee. The devil is in the details. Joining a group or hospital usually gets you more medical community support up front, but it usually takes time to educate then as to what you can do and who you can help. If their is a specific town that you are looking at I would be happy to offer suggestions, unless you are looking at the same spot that I am.
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 2,158
- Reaction score
- 1,147
I have been getting bombarded by recruiters.
I have not spoken with any of them so far. Any downside to working with a recruiter?
I have not spoken with any of them so far. Any downside to working with a recruiter?
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2011
- Messages
- 5,313
- Reaction score
- 1,086
Send me you CV. And where is home?
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2011
- Messages
- 5,313
- Reaction score
- 1,086
Send me a CV. And all of you sign up for the private forum and move this there.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2011
- Messages
- 1,402
- Reaction score
- 844
Yes. There are a LOT of crappy jobs run by crooks. Crooks generally need to use recruiting to find new grads who don't know any better. IMO, if a job needs a recruiter, then it's a crappy job. If a doc needs a recruiter they might be a crappy candidate or at least a lazy one.
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 2,158
- Reaction score
- 1,147
I'd like to think I'm not too crappy of a candidate, but the bottom of the barrel is more comfortable than people realize! 😉
I know this has been discussed before... but going purely by word of mouth seems to be a really challenging way to find a job. I have heard the two ends of the spectrum from people re recruiters. I guess, a better question is, "Do I jeopardize anything by speaking with one?"
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2010
- Messages
- 13,318
- Reaction score
- 7,597
Talking to recruiters, you will quickly realize if it is the right route for you. Recruiters will make you their product and then advertise and sell you at a mark up. They don't have anything "lined up" yet, just like a store doesn't have consumers before it has products.
I think it could hurt you in rare cases. For example, your recruiter enters into a negotiation with a potential employer, the employer interviews you and another fellow on the same day. The other fellow took the initiative and contacted the practice directly. Now the recruiter is dead weight for you, making you a more expensive applicant (recruiter fee), a less personable applicant (contact thus far has been via middleman), and also an applicant with baggage (the recruiter). If the recruiter has any attitude, people just don't want to deal with it. I think that scenario is unlikely but you get the idea.
Probably no harm in calling one or two of the recruiters and see how it feels.
A recruiter working appropriately should not treat a candidate as a mark up or product. I have been recruiting in pain management solely for the past 16 years. This type of reverse marketing that you are talking about that recruiters do is unfortunately a negative stain on the industry and it is understandable that physicians would have a bad taste in their mouths due to this. We don't as a company, nor should other recruiters, utilize a candidate to "sell to a new practice" We are hired by an employer who need us to recruit for them--thusly we are doing the ground work to find them appropriate candidates. Not all practices who decide to use a recruiter are offering a bad job---the majority of my clients are physician owned practices that utilize my services to seek out, weed through the candidates that don't fit their criteria, market and advertise appropriately, assist in facilitation and help in any negotiation process. In a lot of cases, it saves the practice money and certainly a lot of time by utilizing a recruiter in this respect. The statement of a practice not hiring the right physician because of a placement fee is an absolute incorrect mindset about the industry. Saving a $10k placement fee that a practice pays for a recruiter's candidate if they are the right candidate is simply not a decision that anyone trying to find the right person is going to try and get around--it is not worth it. It is an extremely small price to pay to find the right candidate and typically about the same cost then if the practice decided to advertise themselves and do all the leg work.
I would be wary if a recruiter said that they will shop around for you as a candidate--then yes, you may absolutely be asking for problems down the road. However, quality recruiters will only let you know when they get good opportunities in that match general parameters of what you are looking for--they should not call you all the time, and they should not bother you with positions that don't make sense. So, definitely ask around and find the right ones. When you are looking for a positions--especially coming out of a program--you should cast many nets--carefully--you need to have different view points and assistance from people in the industry to help compare and make the right decision. Though you may pick a job at first that you don't stay at for years and years--but you certainly don't want to pick a first job where you are taken advantage of or are in a bad practice situation. Pain management is not an industry such as family practice or internal medicine--there are not thousands of positions available at any given time--it is a small, close knit arena--and anybody you talk to about your job search--especially recruiters--should have a base knowledge of pain management and all it's components if they are going to be someone you rely on to make an informed decision.
I would be wary if a recruiter said that they will shop around for you as a candidate--then yes, you may absolutely be asking for problems down the road. However, quality recruiters will only let you know when they get good opportunities in that match general parameters of what you are looking for--they should not call you all the time, and they should not bother you with positions that don't make sense. So, definitely ask around and find the right ones. When you are looking for a positions--especially coming out of a program--you should cast many nets--carefully--you need to have different view points and assistance from people in the industry to help compare and make the right decision. Though you may pick a job at first that you don't stay at for years and years--but you certainly don't want to pick a first job where you are taken advantage of or are in a bad practice situation. Pain management is not an industry such as family practice or internal medicine--there are not thousands of positions available at any given time--it is a small, close knit arena--and anybody you talk to about your job search--especially recruiters--should have a base knowledge of pain management and all it's components if they are going to be someone you rely on to make an informed decision.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2011
- Messages
- 1,402
- Reaction score
- 844
Cold calling is extraordinarily easy. On top of that, the SCS reps usually know the atmosphere in their area pretty well and are pretty honest. Is there an area which you are hoping to end up? If so, pick up the phone and call the office manager of the practice in that area. Explain your situation and your connections to that region. You'll be shocked at how frequently they are actually really happy to hear from you and are looking for someone.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2002
- Messages
- 6,526
- Reaction score
- 3,104
Yes it will affect any signing bonus as they will take the recruiting fee out of somewhere. I do not think recruiters are all bad and there really isn't a downside to talking. I would cold call if you have a desirable geographic location you want. The AAPMR job page was useful for me. SCS reps can be helpful.
If you want a million a year right out of fellowship move to some inland sh**hole in the south, don't give a crap about the community, your patients or long term practice viability and you can get your $. No- new to the area doc- is worth the salary expectations I read from some on this board to a legitimate, narcotic sparing, small single specialty pain practice in a competitive locale. The only way to do that is to cannabalize the owners income so that owner either wants to retire, has health issues or he already has his f u money and is cool with taking half of what you make while he golfs.
Hospital, large multispecialty groups and some ortho practices may be different but your income will be capped below max potential, you will most likely be a number and/or not really equal to your "partners".
Take the risk and start your own gig or find a legit practice, take the peanuts and do the legwork required to basically set up your own gig anyway within that practice structure.
- Joined
- May 7, 2006
- Messages
- 423
- Reaction score
- 215
Recruiter worked for me. I found the best job I can imagine after interviewing in several places. I had interviews from cold calls and interestingly, the one interview I had from recruiter was the job I took, so I don't agree that recruiter=crap job. I agree that cold calls are easy. Just ask to speak with practice manager.
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2006
- Messages
- 382
- Reaction score
- 235
Starting your own is worth the hassle.. More rewarding
