Advice for Next Generation?

[prominence]

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If you have an exceptionally bright relative (i.e. child, nephew/niece with high IQ, SAT scores and gpa) who is in high school and approached you for advice on what career path they should go into if their goal is to make the most money, what would you recommend?

Would you suggest the world of medicine or would you recommend a non-medical field?

Please explain your answer.

 

[Raryn]

If you have an exceptionally bright relative (i.e. child, nephew/niece with high IQ, SAT scores and gpa) who is in high school and approached you for advice on what career path they should go into if their goal is to make the most money, what would you recommend?

Would you suggest the world of medicine or would you recommend a non-medical field?

Please explain your answer.

If the goal was simply just making the most money, I would never advise medicine. I'd advise working hard, maintaining diverse interests, doing their best to get into an elite university, then reevaluating there. If they're truly that bright, they will have a ton of options that may not start off earning as much as a physician but will certainly be earning money sooner with much fewer headaches during training.

Now, if they expressed a desire for a reasonably high earning stable career that lets them pursue their love of science and they enjoy interacting with people and working hard to make their lives better? Then maybe I'd encourage medicine specifically. With the caveat they could also think about dentistry, pharmacy, whatever else fits the bill. And the first step is still working hard, maintaining diverse interests, doing their best to get into an elite university, then reevaluating there. (And I say that as someone who went to a middling at best state university, though I was in an honors program with a full ride, so it's a bit more complicated there)

 

[mcworbust]

If you have an exceptionally bright relative (i.e. child, nephew/niece with high IQ, SAT scores and gpa) who is in high school and approached you for advice on what career path they should go into if their goal is to make the most money, what would you recommend?

Would you suggest the world of medicine or would you recommend a non-medical field?

Please explain your answer.

First, I'd encourage that child to reassess their goals in life, stressing that while money is necessary in life, it is not alone sufficient for happiness. An exceptionally bright person will likely be able to succeed in multiple career paths, so instead of trying to choose for them, I would list out various careers that that child should start investigating and shadowing now, so that they can choose their path based on what they experience first hand as opposed to opinions of others - the only person who will truly know what the child is interested in is that child, and intellectual curiosity for the field they ultimately choose will be a huge predictor of success (which will also help them make a whole bunch o' money).

I'd suggest, in high school, they shadow or speak with various doctors, nurses, PAs, Principal Investigators/PhD/researchers, teachers/principals (who make good money), engineers, financial advisers, actuaries, accountants, computer programmers, lawyers, PR/marketing, and any others I havent thought of. Instead of recommending a career, I would instead put my efforts into working my connections to get them opportunities to see these various fields. Although I'm just a med student, I have close friends or family who are in all of the above positions, all who would be willing to donate their time to inform a bright young person. I'm sure as an attending you know many of the same types of folks that you could help hook up your bright relative with, and they'd appreciate the effort! (or at least their parents would)...

I chose the world of medicine because that's where I was happiest (after trying out or investigating basic science research, clinical research, public health, paramedic, and optometry careers), but for anyone who is not me I can't say for sure if medicine or non-medicine career would be best, only they can decide for themselves. Just make sure they major in something marketable within the realm of their interest which should be determined by investigating the various fields I mentioned or others.

 

[AdmiralChz]

what career path they should go into if their goal is to make the most money

Oy... this is rough. For "your relative" or yourself. This should probably be moved to hSDN.

:troll:

 

[Perrotfish]

If you have an exceptionally bright relative (i.e. child, nephew/niece with high IQ, SAT scores and gpa) who is in high school and approached you for advice on what career path they should go into if their goal is to make the most money, what would you recommend?

Would you suggest the world of medicine or would you recommend a non-medical field?

Please explain your answer.

Clarification. Where you say 'the most money'

1) do you mean average projected earnings or are you more interested in the upper 10th centile of the profession?
2) do you care about the cost of living where you need to work?
3) Do you want total earnings or hourly reimbursement?

 

[Perrotfish]

Oy... this is rough. For "your relative" or yourself. This should probably be moved to hSDN.

:troll:

You think he made 1000 posts over 10 years to troll you?

 

[prominence]

Clarification. Where you say 'the most money'

1) do you mean average projected earnings or are you more interested in the upper 10th centile of the profession?
2) do you care about the cost of living where you need to work?
3) Do you want total earnings or hourly reimbursement?

Most money as in total annual salary

General question, not specific to any certain city or region of the country.

Contenders I would imagine would include certain fields of law, some fields of business, maybe something IT related and certain medical fields like neurosurgery, plastic surgery, orthopedic surgery and dermatology.

 

[mcworbust]

You think he made 1000 posts over 10 years to troll you?

If OP joined at birth, he would be 16 years old, technically could be in high school lol

 

[prominence]

Oy... this is rough. For "your relative" or yourself. This should probably be moved to hSDN.

:troll:

I am an attending and I am fully content in my career choice. Money did not personally steer me to choose a job working as a psychiatrist and treating our nation's veterans.

I imagine many others can relate to this question. In this era of rapid technological change, I believe there are multiple choices for career fields for the top 1 to 5% of our brightest minds who especially wish to be compensated handsomely for their job skills.

 

[gracie369]

You think he made 1000 posts over 10 years to troll you?

Lloyd?

 

[sazerac]

Most money as in total annual salary.

The serious money in IT or business isn't made in salary, it is made in ownership (employee stock and stock options). Chasing a high salary is often a fool's errand in the US, due to its income tax structure. Salary can create delta wealth, but delta wealth is so much more than salary. At a certain point, salary is irrelevant to delta wealth.

Tell your relative to pursue a career path in a growing field where the employees own the means of production. Business, high tech, and hedge funds are three examples where that happens now.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Salary can create delta wealth, but delta wealth is so much more than salary. At a certain point, salary is irrelevant to delta wealth.

What is your definition of "delta wealth?" I have a fair bit of experience in finance and have literally never heard anyone use this term before.

 

[sazerac]

What is your definition of "delta wealth?" I have a fair bit of experience in finance and have literally never heard anyone use this term before.

I'm just emphasizing the idea that you can increase your net worth by earning $70,000 as an engineer, but that same engineer can have his company stock rise by a couple dollars and increase his net worth by $70,000 in a week.

The SDN forums greatly emphasize the former path to changes in net worth, which makes sense given the audience of this forum. Out in the real world of wealth creation, especially in kinds cities where even physicians find it difficult to purchase a home, the effect of salary on changes to net worth becomes a rounding error when compared to unrealized capital gains.

Maybe "delta net worth" would have been a better term.

 

[Perrotfish]

Most money as in total annual salary

General question, not specific to any certain city or region of the country.

Contenders I would imagine would include certain fields of law, some fields of business, maybe something IT related and certain medical fields like neurosurgery, plastic surgery, orthopedic surgery and dermatology.

1) Medicine is an excellent field for top students to make money, if you're looking at their average salary. Compared to graduates from top schools in other fields like engineering, IT, or business the median salary is higher. The closest is finance but medicine edge it out.

2) Medicine is a really bad field if you want to earn a multi-million dollar annual salary. The salaries in medicine are clustered closely together. In medicine the best of the best, the top CT surgeons, might earn 5 times the average salary for a physician. In finance/business/engineering the best of the best will earn more than 100x the average salary.

3) Medicine is, by far, for best profession for the average standard of living. Most top jobs trap you into microeconomies where your money doesn't go nearly as far, whether you're looking at finance in NYC, IT in the PNW, or a K street lobbiest in DC . Medicine and petroleum engineering are the only white collar fields I know of where you can make more by going somewhere where everything costs less. I have a family member who makes significantly more than me, in finance. He commutes 5 hours/day (drive -> ferry -> subway) to live in a 3 bedroom home that even at that distance from the office eats up most of his salary. A 3 bedroom home in my town costs $900/month. Of course, medicine is a really bad field if you are 100% certain you need to live in one of those microeconomies.

If I was a parent, based on finances alone I would advise medicine. Law/business/finance are a kind of lottery, with many good students earning much, much less than physicians, even as a handful earn much, much more. Many law/business/finances students can't even sustain a full career in their profession (in law, these days, the majority can't). When it comes to finances the floor on your profession's salary is much more important than the ceiling.

 

[Raryn]

The serious money in IT or business isn't made in salary, it is made in ownership (employee stock and stock options). Chasing a high salary is often a fool's errand in the US, due to its income tax structure. Salary can create delta wealth, but delta wealth is so much more than salary. At a certain point, salary is irrelevant to delta wealth.

Tell your relative to pursue a career path in a growing field where the employees own the means of production. Business, high tech, and hedge funds are three examples where that happens now.

That's definitely an argument, but you have to be careful using as your comparison only people who got in on the ground floor of a unicorn (Google, Facebook, Uber, whatever) as opposed to all CS workers. Even if you're enormously talented, working for a start-up and taking a substantial part of your compensation as equity is gambling. So is big law, the big consulting firms, or investment banking, all of which are pretty much set up as pyramid schemes. It might work out and make you a multimillionaire and yes, worst case scenario you'll make in the low six figures, but dont talk about it like it's that seventh figure is sure thing.

 

[Perrotfish]

I'm just emphasizing the idea that you can increase your net worth by earning $70,000 as an engineer, but that same engineer can have his company stock rise by a couple dollars and increase his net worth by $70,000 in a week.

The SDN forums greatly emphasize the former path to changes in net worth, which makes sense given the audience of this forum. Out in the real world of wealth creation, especially in kinds cities where even physicians find it difficult to purchase a home, the effect of salary on changes to net worth becomes a rounding error when compared to unrealized capital gains.

But this is true of any stock, and it is as unreliable a source of wealth when you're investing in your own company as when you invest in any other publically traded company. You make the purchase with after tax dollars, and you can lose 70K in a week as easily as gaining. The best hedge fund managers in the world average a 7% gain per year, 4% after inflation. If you're trying to get more than that you're just gambling, with all of the risks that that entails.

 

[tennischamp822]

If I was a parent, based on finances alone I would advise medicine. Law/business/finance are a kind of lottery, with many good students earning much, much less than physicians, even as a handful earn much, much more. Many law/business/finances students can't even sustain a full career in their profession (in law, these days, the majority can't). When it comes to finances the floor on your profession's salary is much more important than the ceiling.

Yes, the job security in medicine is unparalleled compared to any of these fields.

But - I have always been skeptical about the sustainability of physician income. What stops the government from cutting fees for procedures in Medicare? Why wouldn't the government resort to these cuts when it becomes clear that the the expenses of Medicare are too high at the present cost structure to pay for the upcoming baby boomer retirement? I realize that physician income has pretty much always gone up in nominal terms, but there is no rule that this has to be the case going forward.

 

[Perrotfish]

Yes, the job security in medicine is unparalleled compared to any of these fields.

But - I have always been skeptical about the sustainability of physician income. What stops the government from cutting fees for procedures in Medicare? Why wouldn't the government resort to these cuts when it becomes clear that the the expenses of Medicare are too high at the present cost structure to pay for the upcoming baby boomer retirement? I realize that physician income has pretty much always gone up in nominal terms, but there is no rule that this has to be the case going forward.

The practical floor of physician reimbursement has always been what people are willing to pay on the cash market. That's higher that you think it is, even for primary care. If you drop Medicare reimbursements hospitals stop accepting Medicare and our politically active elderly revolt. Unless the government was not only to establish a single payer market, but to also make participation in that market compulsory, I can't see our pay just disappearing. I think we have way too much of a free market bias in this country for anything like that to happen.

I do worry that technology will make us obsolete one day, whether Watson, self driven surgical robots, or whatever, but I don't know what's safe from that these days. I certainly wouldn't have predicted that lawyers would be one of the earliest victims of white collar automation, but now that a huge percentage of doc review is automated a lot of them are just out of work.

 

[tennischamp822]

The practical floor of physician reimbursement has always been what people are willing to pay on the cash market. That's higher that you think it is, even for primary care. If you drop Medicare reimbursements hospitals stop accepting Medicare and our politically active elderly revolt. Unless the government was not only to establish a single payer market, but to also make participation in that market compulsory, I can't see our pay just disappearing. I think we have way too much of a free market bias in this country for anything like that to happen.

I do worry that technology will make us obsolete one day, whether Watson, self driven surgical robots, or whatever, but I don't know what's safe from that these days. I certainly wouldn't have predicted that lawyers would be one of the earliest victims of white collar automation, but now that a huge percentage of doc review is automated a lot of them are just out of work.

Primary care is probably possible to pay in cash, but I highly doubt that most people have enough money laying around to afford hospital stays or surgical procedures as they are currently priced.

 

[Goro]

Non-medical, either sports, politics, singing or acting.

Wait...were you talking about being practical?

If you have an exceptionally bright relative (i.e. child, nephew/niece with high IQ, SAT scores and gpa) who is in high school and approached you for advice on what career path they should go into if their goal is to make the most money, what would you recommend?

Would you suggest the world of medicine or would you recommend a non-medical field?

Please explain your answer.