Advice needed: Drop premed or Transfer?

[ivypremed]

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I'm a premed freshman at an Ivy and I need some advice. Last semester, I took bio I (got a B) and math (B+). This semester, I'm taking bio II and am on track for a B. I do well on the midterms ( we have 3 for each class), but's it's the curves that kill me. For example, one time I got a 97 on a midterm and due to the curve, it became a 80! Bio is supposed to be my best subject (only AP in HS). I took chem and physics 2+ years ago and I remember very little (intro classes in HS) so those definately will not be as easy for me as bio.

My question is should I drop pre-med and stay in the Ivy? I really don't want to drop pre-med, but my science gpa will be ~3.1 at the end of this semester and since the trend is likely to continue, there is no way I will be competitive for med school. If I did "drop" premed I would take it post bac, but I wan't considering it b/c I wanted to get all the classes done in my undergrad years. Or should I transfer to another school where the curves won't hurt my grade so much. I know 100% I want to be a doctor and I'm good at the science classes, it is just the curves that are really ruining my grade.

Thank you for the advice!

Ps.

 

[DNM]

I'm a premed freshman at an Ivy and I need some advice. Last semester, I took bio I (got a B) and math (B+). This semester, I'm taking bio II and am on track for a B. I do well on the midterms ( we have 3 for each class), but's it's the curves that kill me. For example, one time I got a 97 on a midterm and due to the curve, it became a 80! Bio is supposed to be my best subject (only AP in HS). I took chem and physics 2+ years ago and I remember very little (intro classes in HS) so those definately will not be as easy for me as bio.

My question is should I drop pre-med? I really don't want to, but my science gpa will be ~3.1 at the end of this semester. Or should I transfer to another school where the curves won't hurt my grade so much. I know 100% I want to be a doctor and I'm good at the science classes, it is just the curves that are really ruining my grade.

Thank you for the advice!

You tell me

 

[ivypremed]

You tell me

but if i keep getting B's there's no way I'll be able to get into medical school. I guess my real question is do I drop pre-med and stay in the Ivy or transfer and be pre-med elsewhere.

 

[ParthVader]

I'm a premed freshman at an Ivy and I need some advice. Last semester, I took bio I (got a B) and math (B+). This semester, I'm taking bio II and am on track for a B. I do well on the midterms ( we have 3 for each class), but's it's the curves that kill me. For example, one time I got a 97 on a midterm and due to the curve, it became a 80! Bio is supposed to be my best subject (only AP in HS). I took chem and physics 2+ years ago and I remember very little (intro classes in HS) so those definately will not be as easy for me as bio.

My question is should I drop pre-med and stay in the Ivy? I really don't want to drop pre-med, but my science gpa will be ~3.1 at the end of this semester and since the trend is likely to continue, there is no way I will be competitive for med school. Or should I transfer to another school where the curves won't hurt my grade so much. I know 100% I want to be a doctor and I'm good at the science classes, it is just the curves that are really ruining my grade
Thank you for the advice!

Hmm no idea how your grade can go DOWN after a curve.. I mean going from a 97 to an 80.... BUT the question is are your grades going to go up if you transfer..Is it the college or you. The material is going to be the same at any school.. If you feel that it is the school, and you're 100% sure u want to be a doctor, then transfer... But I doubt its the school..

 

[swamprat]

"drop pre-med" and stay in ivy. obviously it doesn't matter that much if you have to ask.

 

[zombymush]

I know columbia's intro biology sequence is their version of the premed weeder class.

So maybe biology is your school's weeder class. Think positive. Maybe the other classes won't be as bad.

A B is not the end of the world. Who knows, maybe chemistry will be easier. And if you do transfer, where would you transfer to?

 

[ivypremed]

"drop pre-med" and stay in ivy. obviously it doesn't matter that much if you have to ask.

If I dropped it, I would take the requirements post bac, I mean just not doing premed at the Ivy.

 

[ivypremed]

Hmm no idea how your grade can go DOWN after a curve.. I mean going from a 97 to an 80.... BUT the question is are your grades going to go up if you transfer..Is it the college or you. The material is going to be the same at any school.. If you feel that it is the school, and you're 100% sure u want to be a doctor, then transfer... But I doubt its the school..

I've actually seen it happen countless times in the class. For the above exam, I talked to the professor and she said the mean was a 95 (which was scaled to be a 75)

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

I've actually seen it happen countless times in the class. For the above exam, I talked to the professor and she said the mean was a 95 (which was scaled to be a 75)

95 what? 95% or 95 points out of XXX points possible?

 

[TexanGirl]

I've actually seen it happen countless times in the class. For the above exam, I talked to the professor and she said the mean was a 95 (which was scaled to be a 75)

Was this out of an 100-point scale? A 95-mean indicates the exam was too easy. But even then, if a 97 is curved downward to a 80, what would a high score of 98 or 99 be curved downward to? What would a 100 be curved down to? 😕

 

[phospho]

95 what? 95% or 95 points out of XXX points possible?

95%, hence the reason she took it down to 75% to make a C average...

 

[ivypremed]

Was this out of an 100-point scale? A 95-mean indicates the exam was too easy. But even then, if a 97 is curved downward to a 80, what would a high score of 98 or 99 be curved downward to? What would a 100 be curved down to? 😕

Yeah, that exam was the easiest one we've ever had, but the prof said that she made 95/100 a 75 (that's the mean they set all the midterms to, which is B-) and then a 100/100, 100 and split all the grades in between (96-99) between 75 and 100. It's crazy.

 

[Stixman28]

Yeah, that exam was the easiest one we've ever had, but the prof said that she made 95/100 a 75 (that's the mean they set all the midterms to, which is B-) and then a 100/100, 100 and split all the grades in between (96-99) between 75 and 100. It's crazy.

I did my post bac at an ivy...one that sounds a lot like yours in terms of grade curving and mid term numbers.

It was a pain in the ass when I would finally rock a chem exam, and then everyone else would too...sometimes moved my 92's down to 82's and lame situations like that.

You really just need to rock those classes. They are weed out courses for a reason. You will be able to improve your gpa with upper level courses that do not use that same system. Don't sweat it. But dropping them wont help. Do anything and everything to get that advantage man. None of the basic sciences are going to be easy.

but doing a post bac somewhere else is a crappy idea. If your in college and you know you want to be a pre med, just do it once. It took me 7 years...

 

[NotAndrew]

3.1 Science GPA won't kill your chances, do all of your classes use this grading system?

 

[swamprat]

If I dropped it, I would take the requirements post bac, I mean just not doing premed at the Ivy.

In that case if its really the curving and its not just that you don't get the material obviously peace out of the ivy if you think thats the only other option. you'll spend less $ on tuition and you won't have to do a post-bac which would add on years and also $.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I sort of understand that grading system. At my school, the physics department grades the class like this: take you score, minus the average and divide that by the standard deviation. Add this to 2.8. So, it is possible if everyone get's 100 for everyone to get a 2.8 in the class.

 

[Excelsius]

I sort of understand that grading system. At my school, the physics department grades the class like this: take you score, minus the average and divide that by the standard deviation. Add this to 2.8. So, it is possible if everyone get's 100 for everyone to get a 2.8 in the class.

I didn't know there were so many lame grading systems. Then again, in my physics classes some of the tests are specifically designed so that the class average is around F/D. Some really tough questions that may not even be in the course are asked. Even if there was a single student in the class who could theoretically solve all the problems, there is still the issue of time. So 50% can sometimes end up being an A. I think this system is still bad, but it is much better than issuing an easy test, letting everyone do well, and then giving everyone a B or worse. This is sort of like taking a group quiz and then getting a low grade because one of your team members messed up. I am surprised students don't make a petition or something like that to change the system - unless it works most of the time.

 

[vin5cent0]

I don't understand how a curve makes you go down.

 

[SiR99]

If a 97/100 is considered a 75%, then that means you are only 3 points away from a 100%.

If you can make up those 3 points on another exam then you will be getting an A again.

 

[Excelsius]

I don't understand how a curve makes you go down.

Have you guys never heard of the bell curve?

It dictates that only a certain percentage of the class can have a particular grade - for example, only 10% can get As. So, if more than 10% got As, then you would have to curve the grades down. If less than 10% got it, then you curve the grades up.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

That curve is ridiculous. I took some classes where the professors tried to make tests hard enough to give a class average of 50. Their rationale was that they could make questions of varying difficulty (i.e. 20% almost impossible, 20% very easy, and everything in between), and therefore the grades would be well spread out and reflect peoples' abilities.

Making a test with an average of 95% has the exact opposite effect. The difference between a 97 and a 99 (and therefore an A and a B) is very likely due to chance, and doesn't reflect any difference of abilities.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I didn't know there were so many lame grading systems. Then again, in my physics classes some of the tests are specifically designed so that the class average is around F/D. Some really tough questions that may not even be in the course are asked. Even if there was a single student in the class who could theoretically solve all the problems, there is still the issue of time. So 50% can sometimes end up being an A. I think this system is still bad, but it is much better than issuing an easy test, letting everyone do well, and then giving everyone a B or worse. This is sort of like taking a group quiz and then getting a low grade because one of your team members messed up. I am surprised students don't make a petition or something like that to change the system - unless it works most of the time.

For the most part, the prof's I had made the test hard enough where the average turned out to be around 65. However, there is one professor who made the tests notoriously easy, having students averaging 85's.

 

[little pebble]

I'm a premed freshman at an Ivy and I need some advice. Last semester, I took bio I (got a B) and math (B+). This semester, I'm taking bio II and am on track for a B. I do well on the midterms ( we have 3 for each class), but's it's the curves that kill me. For example, one time I got a 97 on a midterm and due to the curve, it became a 80! Bio is supposed to be my best subject (only AP in HS). I took chem and physics 2+ years ago and I remember very little (intro classes in HS) so those definately will not be as easy for me as bio.

My question is should I drop pre-med and stay in the Ivy? I really don't want to drop pre-med, but my science gpa will be ~3.1 at the end of this semester and since the trend is likely to continue, there is no way I will be competitive for med school. If I did "drop" premed I would take it post bac, but I wan't considering it b/c I wanted to get all the classes done in my undergrad years. Or should I transfer to another school where the curves won't hurt my grade so much. I know 100% I want to be a doctor and I'm good at the science classes, it is just the curves that are really ruining my grade.

Thank you for the advice!

Ok, personal experience here. I went to a large state university, and made Bs in Bio I and II, Orgo I and II, and Chem I. I also made a B in genetics. Guess what? I still got into medical school, and a good one to boot. Work hard in your classes, take lots of upper level sciences to balance out the low grades, and do all of the rest of the pre-med stuff. You'll do fine. The four required classes for medical school generally serve as weeder classes -- our school's specialty for dream-killing was organic. I bottomed out my GPA 2nd semester of my sophomore year, and rose afterwards. I think you will too, it just looks really scary right now.

You're in an Ivy. That ought to count for something. But -- can you major in something other than "pre-med" and go to medical school? It mught be more fulfilling, and would give you something to fall back on if you don't get in the first time.

 

[shindotp]

Oh my god. I feel bad for the OP. So much incompetence from some of the posters in this thread.

If he were to "drop premed" as in stop taking pre-med courses in undergrad, he would take them as a post-bac. He never said he's "majoring" in pre-med. He never said he would consider not going to medical school.

My advice is to stay in your undergrad, and learn how to study better. Cut down extra-curriculars if you have to, and really try your best to do whatever you can to bring up grades from now on (one bad semester won't kill you, especially not your first one). You got into the Ivy, so you should be capable of bringing your grades up. Besides, if you transfer to an easier school, it'll be pretty obvious that you transfered because of grades to an admissions officer.

 

[pietachok]

you could take the courses at Summer school at a different institution as opposed to taking them Post-bacc.

 

[aviary17]

Hi dear. Don't switch schools. As long as you are enjoying where you are, stay there. You are obviously a great student to have gotten into an ivy league. As one poster mentioned, students with B averages or so get into med school. Your MCAT will have to show your potential, but you need a strong MCAT score with or without a high GPA. Also, let's not kid ourselves. Med schools known the deal at Ivy leagues, and they're not fooled when they get an A++ GPA from a small no-namer and then a B from an Ivy with a strict curve. They won't think that you are inferior to the no-namer for it; I unfortunately know the situation from the opposite side of the coin. As long as you're happy where you are, do not switch. Nice LORs, interesting ECs with leadership roles, and a reasonably high MCAT (33-35) will get you in. Best of luck.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

Hi dear. Don't switch schools. As long as you are enjoying where you are, stay there. You are obviously a great student to have gotten into an ivy league. As one poster mentioned, students with B averages or so get into med school. Your MCAT will have to show your potential, but you need a strong MCAT score with or without a high GPA. Also, let's not kid ourselves. Med schools known the deal at Ivy leagues, and they're not fooled when they get an A++ GPA from a small no-namer and then a B from an Ivy with a strict curve. They won't think that you are inferior to the no-namer for it; I unfortunately know the situation from the opposite side of the coin. As long as you're happy where you are, do not switch. Nice LORs, interesting ECs with leadership roles, and a reasonably high MCAT (33-35) will get you in. Best of luck.

No, that's just wrong. A++ from Podunk >>> B from Ivy league any day.

 

[shindotp]

No, that's just wrong. A++ from Podunk >>> B from Ivy league any day.

It's true.

Not because they think a B from Ivy is worse than an A++ from Podunk, but also because they have to bring up their rankings. Average GPA is a factor, and they have to form their policies to conform.

 

[potato head]

But I doubt its the school..

depends on the ivy. but i can tell you from direct experience that my ivy pre-med was harder than my local state school. or local private school for that matter.

 

[potato head]

hey we're both vaders 😀

 

[RoyBasch]

hey OP: I was in a very similar situation as you 4 years ago. Of the core pre-med prerequisites I only got 3 A's. The rest were B's. The key is to do well in easier upper level science classes. As counter-intuitive as it sounds I have never taken a class as hard as organic chemistry, general physics, and general biology, the curves were killer. I have been admitted to some decent medical schools. Taking some of the main pre-reqs elsewhere where they are known to be easy during the summer *cough* Harvard *cough* is a good idea, I know a lot of people who did it and it worked out well for their applications.
-Roy

 

[GoSpursGo]

you could take the courses at Summer school at a different institution as opposed to taking them Post-bacc.

Just to point out that if you're talking about a CC, this would look VERY fishy if you're consistently making a B at your regular university and A's at the CC.

 

[catullus]

I have a 3.36 science GPA from Stanford, not a great MCAT either, and I still got interviews at six medical schools, including two ivies.

If you like your school, stay there. Work your butt off to get your GPA up, but if it's just not possible, you know you did your best, and as long as your ECs are solid, your recs are good, and your MCAT isn't terrible, you will still get into some good med schools.

 

[DNM]

Ok, personal experience here. I went to a large state university, and made Bs in Bio I and II, Orgo I and II, and Chem I. I also made a B in genetics. Guess what? I still got into medical school, and a good one to boot. Work hard in your classes, take lots of upper level sciences to balance out the low grades, and do all of the rest of the pre-med stuff. You'll do fine. The four required classes for medical school generally serve as weeder classes -- our school's specialty for dream-killing was organic. I bottomed out my GPA 2nd semester of my sophomore year, and rose afterwards. I think you will too, it just looks really scary right now.

You're in an Ivy. That ought to count for something. But -- can you major in something other than "pre-med" and go to medical school? It mught be more fulfilling, and would give you something to fall back on if you don't get in the first time.

This seems like a breath of fresh air compared to your average post of: you received a B in a single pre-req? Better start thinking Carib or U of McDonald's.

 

[pietachok]

When I suggested the OP take summer courses, I didn't mean at CC. That's a big leap.

I also went to an Ivy. I know the OP didn't go to mine, b/c he said he has B+'s, and we had no +'s and -'s. I was an engineering major which is one of the less...let's say, grade-inflated majors. I have also done significant work at Columbia and Cornell, and felt like Columbia premeds endured some cut-throat misery as undergrads...without enough extra benefit at the end--it's not like my friends from Yale, Harvard, and Princeton were suffering from a lack of prestige as they were enjoying their undergrad years more. Some courses are just not worth suffering through. When I was an engineering major, I didn't "get" thermodynamics the first time...I retook it at Cornell over the summer. A different perspective from a different prof just made all the difference. Many state schools are pretty respectable, and I would look into doing the courses there.

Just as someone else already pointed out...the intro level courses are made to weed people out. I had the same experience (albeit more so in engineering) as the earlier poster. Once I got past the intro courses, I got straight A's. It's impressive to people looking at my transcript, and it woulda been really sad if I'd left my school/major b/c of the intro courses and never found out that I could show my stuff in those upper level sciences. If you are in a school like Columbia where Bio is extra hard, it is hard to keep your academic self esteem intact...

But especially if you are doing a major outside of the pre-med "norm" I think it is quite reasonable to stop doing your pre-med req's during the school year "in order to alot time to your major" as long as you do them at reputable summer programs. I did many of my pre-reqs at summer school, and ultimately I got into USC and had several other interviews...with a 3.45 GPA (and I submitted my apps pretty late in the cycle).

Good luck. Overall, do what will make you happy. You only go to college once!

 

[zenlike]

I call shenanigans. Not only is the story unlikely, the math doesn't seem to make sense, either.

If a an unadjusted 95% is an adjusted 75% and an unadjusted 97% is an adjusted 80%, then that means that an unadjusted 96% is an adjusted 77.5%. This means that the difference between an unadjusted 95% and an unadjusted 96% is an adjusted 2.5%. However, the difference between an unadjusted 97% and an unadjusted 98% is an adjusted 7%.

Or, more briefly, why are percentage points worth 2.5% on grades below the one the OP got and 7% above the score the OP got.

 

[drizzt3117]

I call shenanigans. Not only is the story unlikely, the math doesn't seem to make sense, either.

If a an unadjusted 95% is an adjusted 75% and an unadjusted 97% is an adjusted 80%, then that means that an unadjusted 96% is an adjusted 77.5%. This means that the difference between an unadjusted 95% and an unadjusted 96% is an adjusted 2.5%. However, the difference between an unadjusted 97% and an unadjusted 98% is an adjusted 7%.

Or, more briefly, why are percentage points worth 2.5% on grades below the one the OP got and 7% above the score the OP got.

That depends on the distribution. I think an easier way to think about this is if the teacher just gave letter grades instead of numeric grades.

If the mean was 95, then getting the mean would get you a C, which is consistent with 75%. 97 is above the mean, but apparently merits a 80% or B-

If the OP had just said since the mean was 95%, 97% was only a B-, that would probably make a lot more sense.

 

[zenlike]

That depends on the distribution. I think an easier way to think about this is if the teacher just gave letter grades instead of numeric grades.

If the mean was 95, then getting the mean would get you a C, which is consistent with 75%. 97 is above the mean, but apparently merits a 80% or B-

If the OP had just said since the mean was 95%, 97% was only a B-, that would probably make a lot more sense.

I thought about that, but, there aren't enough discrete letters in that range.

95%: C
96%: C+
97%: B-
98%: B
99%: B+
100%: A-
???: A
???: A+

 

[eyang22286]

i've run into this situation in a physics lab before. it was something like a 97% being the cutoff point for an A, though not nearly as bad as your situation.

i don't know what to say, but i agree with some others above that a 3.1 won't totally kill your chances. plus, it's still very early... and plenty of people bomb freshman year. so i'd say, think positive, keep trying if you think you got it in you.

one thing that i don't think anyone's brought up yet... that matters a GREATTTTTTTTTTTTTT deal... is the damned MCAT. if you get like in the upper 30's or so, i think that really might give an explanation to your school and GPA.

 

[redlight]

ok, so i suggest that you tough it out at your institution. don't transfer just to get better grades at an easier school, but feel free to transfer if you are having a horrible time at your ivy and you think you'd have a better experience elsewhere.

in terms of grades: talk to upperclassmen. is it just that this professor doesn't know how to write a good test, or can you expect all the premed profs to be terrible in this regard? my guess is that your current prof is a bad apple, but future professors will be better at writing exams.

worst case senario, id try the post-bacc route.

 

[SiR99]

I call shenanigans. .

I dont see how a professor can do this grading system without the students raising hell with the administration and getting the professor to lose their job.

A 95 is an "A" in the universal grading system, if the professor doesnt understand this then they should make the exam harder to seperate the students more.

 

[shindotp]

I thought about that, but, there aren't enough discrete letters in that range.

95%: C
96%: C+
97%: B-
98%: B
99%: B+
100%: A-
???: A
???: A+

Wowwwww....... Your arguments are like ridiculous.

The class is graded on a curve. It happens.

 

[NotAndrew]

I dont see how a professor can do this grading system without the students raising hell with the administration and getting the professor to lose their job.

A 95 is an "A" in the universal grading system, if the professor doesnt understand this then they should make the exam harder to seperate the students more.

I agree, 1 or 2 points should not be the difference between an A and a C.

 

[zenlike]

Wowwwww....... Your arguments are like ridiculous.

The class is graded on a curve. It happens.

I invite you to make a rebuttal.