Advice Needed - Help Appreciated.

[seemasp]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hi All,

I am 50 year old (or young depending on perspective) thinking of going for medicine. I have international engineering degree (graduated early 90s) with US MBA degree. Bachelor GPA estimate would be about 3.4 to 3.6 or so and Master’s GPA is about 3.6 Working in part time job of about 20 hour a week. In terms of learning ability, used to be very good when young (scoring top 1-2 percentiles in GMAT, GRE etc) and still have some fire left and I think I can get at least 3.5 GPA in pre-req and about 505 MCAT.

Have not taken any science class in undergrad or grad yet. Will be very happy with DO admission and going to primary care or emergency care. I would be very grateful for any assistance with questions listed below.

(1) What is the best way for me to do pre-reqs? I am thinking of going to state college and taking it there starting this summer. Is that better or doing some master’s or special post-bac program better? If later please suggest any programs.

(2) Currently plan is to take some pre-reqs, self-prepare for MCAT and take MACT by April 2020 and apply in June 2020 for 2021 admission. Take rest of the pre-reqs by Summer 2021. How realistic is that?

(3) How undergraduate transcripts are handled? As I left the country for 25 years now, I do not have any contacts there and there is no system of sending transcripts in that country. Will using services like World Education Service work?

(4) Not interested in research and will not be doing any. Will it be an issue? Do I have to do any?

(5) Volunteering – can get about 100 hours each for clinical and non-clinical with 50 hours of shadowing in next year. Will it be enough? It would be box checking as I do not have long term commitment here due to doing it all in one year. will that be an issue?

(6) Student loan – will it be an issue to borrow for education considering I would be about 52 when starting? Pay back is not an issue as I would be working well in 70s.

 

[deleted480308]

You can get govt loans at any age.

The chem sequence is 4 semesters before you even get to biochem so I don’t think your timeline is realistic

There are two larger questions, working 20hrs a week now as a senior engineer are you willing to trade that for 80hrs a week of getting crapped on and everyone treats you like you probably know nothing? It’s a damn big shift

The other thing to note is that financially this is a bad move but if it’s a bucket list thing, and you’re cool with the issues noted above then I wish you good luck

 

[Ad2b]

So, apparently, I'm the resident geezer/old hag now according to a certain forum where I got told to go wait to die. 😆

Me being me, I politely refused to engage in that and simply own that I AM OLDER than almost (if not all) my student peers. I've earned every wrinkle and battle-scar and with them, learned life lessons not taught in books, like how to overcome severe, exhaustive adversity.

Okay, so I'm 54.

Steps in order:

1. Go take pre-reqs (gen chem, biology, organic chem, physics - all those with labs; then add in biochem and likely some other upper division courses) you're looking at 2 years (still younger than me)

2. If you get solid grades (mostly A's) in all of that, register to take the MCAT in the year you are applying - your Master's degree does not count but the admissions committees will look at the grades as everything comes through in your application package

3. Shadow physicians - not PAs, not NPs - those are supportive roles to physicians and require FAR more hands-on patient work than physicians do; sit with physicians and see how long it takes them to chart, diagnose, review labs, chart chart chart (this is lost on many students as well as residents - CHARTING is the bane of every physician's existence from what I've seen and lived vicariously through being on the finance side of that world as well)

4. Student loans are available for med school and depending on what type of physician you become, you can get forgiveness for all or a part of it (rural family med has a program like that in certain areas if not all)

For people who might think "Because you're old" you should pursue PA, it is entirely a different mindset and career path; it is NOT the same as an MD/DO. The requirements for PA schools is a minimum of 2,000 hours HANDS ON patient care before they will accept you and the science behind PA is not as rigorous as MD/DO; in addition, the pay scale is significantly less and the ability to attend grand rounds is non-existent. Talk to PA's that have left to become physicians... I did, and it is not the route I want to take.

5. Have a plan b... I say this in kindness not as a "you won't get in" sort of thing; the youth seem intimidated and frustrated that some old person (their words) might take "their seat" (their words) but here's the thing. The adcoms are smart people, likely many are physicians. They know their school, their candidate pool and whether or not you will fit in with that pool of students AND thrive in the rigorous environment that is med school. Also, I've been told by many physicians that residency is the worst, at least the first year. Are you able to do that? Do you currently work 60+ hours a week and get little sleep? are you active enough to sustain that life for the rest of your life? If you don't get in, what is your plan b?

Medicine is not, and should not be, a midlife crisis. My path to medicine has been going since I was 5. Literally 5 years old - my aunt retired from a rather large, rather well known hospital/clinic chain and I got her leather surgical kit embossed in 18k gold with the name of the place; inside were bandages and tapes and "stuff" and my interest has never stopped.

And that last point: midlife crisis - why medicine and why now? Be prepared not to just answer that but live it.

My stats?

2.196 Ugrad GPA 1986 (deceased child, bad decisions, etc.)
10,000 hours volunteering throughout my life
100+ shadowing
100+ clinicial/hands-on patient care
research in Galapagos (field, not published)
MBA - finance
3.89ish GPA through pre-reqs starting in 201x (gen chem, orgo, biochem, physics, genetics, biology, med myco, immuno, evolution)

Best of luck to you as you consider this journey.

EDITED TO ADD:

Last year 10 - 12 50+ year old students MATRICULATED into allopathic medical school; yesterday, at my local campus talking to my old genetics/med myco professor, he told me about yet another 55+ year old that got into allopathic med school... and you'll have to learn to ignore the haters; there are many out there

 

[curbsideconsult]

international engineering degree

To clarify: your degree is not from the U.S.? If that is the case, I believe med school will be infinitely more of a reach for you than those with an American bachelor's.

Last year 10 - 12 50+ year old students MATRICULATED into allopathic medical school

But how many 50+ students APPLIED? And what back stories did these people have? I'm not saying OP shouldn't go for it, but if they do, they need to go into with eyes wide open.

 

[Ad2b]

But how many 50+ students APPLIED? And what back stories did these people have? I'm not saying OP shouldn't go for it, but if they do, they need to go into with eyes wide open.

I believe 10 - 12; those who actually go through with their application cycle, generally fare well... by the time the ones I knew that were older or younger than me got to orgo, they dropped out of medicine to pursue nursing or something else health related; (orgo could be physics, or biochem or ... whatever) those that lasted through all pre-reqs and shadowing and clinicals and MCAT prep/test, generally fare well

to your last point, that is EXACTLY my point.

This is not an easy path for the youngsters and it is harder as an older student because now we have no parents helping us (generally, we're now helping them), we have many conflicting life issues (mortgages, car payments, our kids in school perhaps, credit card bills, etc. etc. etc.) that need to be addressed while simultaneously going to school, getting great grades.

IMO, if this is a new idea for anyone over a certain age, they need to make darn sure it's their passion and not midlife crisis. This path is not for the faint of heart at any age, and at times, as I've experienced, it's really painful to confront a shortcoming and ask, "Is this it? Or can I overcome again?"

In my case, there are those on here that can attest, I've fallen, dusted myself off, come up for air again, only to wonder if I fall again should I try again... it's not easy; but the more I try to just move on and live my old career, the more...

 

[seemasp]

@curbsideconsult - Regarding degree, while bachelor's is international, master's degree is US. Also all pre-req will be taken in US. Can you please care elaborating why international bachelor's will be disadvantage? Any suggestion about how to overcome that other than doing full another bachelor?

I agree with the observation that it should be done because of passion and not for tackling any crisis and certainly that is applicable for me. I have plan B already in place as this is not a do or die for me by any means.

 

[Ad2b]

@seemasp get the MSAR from the AAMC and see what school will accept an international Bachelor's degree.

 

[curbsideconsult]

@curbsideconsult - Regarding degree, while bachelor's is international, master's degree is US. Also all pre-req will be taken in US. Can you please care elaborating why international bachelor's will be disadvantage? Any suggestion about how to overcome that other than doing full another bachelor?

I agree with the observation that it should be done because of passion and not for tackling any crisis and certainly that is applicable for me. I have plan B already in place as this is not a do or die for me by any means.

Here's a link from Columbia: International Students or Applicants with Foreign Credentials | Columbia Postbac Premed It's in the first paragraph. I don't know if there's another option other than doing another bachelor's degree at a US school.

I don't think you have a very good grasp of what it will take to get accepted into medical school in the States. As a much older career changer, you'd need to aim for straight As in your postbacc and at least a 510 MCAT. You'd also need to aim for more than just a few volunteer hours here and there. The competition for med school is brutal. There are 22 year olds with perfect scores and great CVs who don't get in. If you really, truly want to be a physician you have put in much more effort to show adcoms why they should choose you over someone who could potentially give the medical field 2-2.5 times more working years.

 

[Mike Bagwell]

Have not taken any science class in undergrad or grad yet.

If you were a 50 year old pre-med student currently finishing up the prereq's, the advice would be very different.

The first thing I would tell you is that at 50, you need to have a very rock solid financial plan. For most people, I would say pursuing medicine in your 50's is not worth it financially unless you're a 50 year old PA with a 4.0 GPA (and zero debt) who wants to become an MD. That's not your situation however.

Having said that, why don't you take it a step at a time and take medical school out of the equation for the moment. Go to your community college and complete a summer or try one term of a full load of the prereq coursework. See how you do with that and then see if you want to move forward. Essentially take the science course work for a test drive. If you're getting A's and scoring at the top of your class then go with that.

I have seen good students get tripped up in the general chemistry and organic chemistry sequences and that's what I believe those courses exist to do.

There's a place for feel good advice but it would be disingenuous for anyone to tell you anything other than this would be an uphill climb with the odds stacked against you.

 

[Ad2b]

I agree with @Mike Bagwell ... starting pre-reqs at 50 is wholly different than just ending a bachelor's degree or having finished the pre-reqs and now taking the MCAT

Gen chem is all math with some theory thrown in, orgo is all theory with puzzles; physics is all math with a sprinkling of theory for good measure; biology is memorize; biochem is math + puzzles + art + theory + art + puzzles + math and a lot of orgo with some art and dancing (electrons dance); genetics is all of the above

Also agree with MB that you should take a course but at a university, not CC. Before that, take a diagnostic test if the university offers one for chem and math; see where you place.

If you don't place into college/gen chem, you're at least a full semester out from starting that actual pre-req; math is the basis for gen chem and physics - algebra based, not calc.

Don't mean to discourage you at all but be realistic about the path and it's pitfalls.

 

[seemasp]

thank you for sharing your thoughts so far. As suggested I will take one step at a time and start with few science courses and see...