Advice on Deciding a SMP

[amark]

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Hello everyone,

I have applied to several SMP's and am currently having a very hard time deciding on which SMP program would be the best fit for me. I have read a vast amount of posts on SDN and the program websites thoroughly, but I still am not able to decide. I am pursuing an SMP because I have a GPA that is below the average for most medical schools (>3.0, <3.5), a strong MCAT 32+, and strong EC's.

Currently, I have been accepted to:
1) Georgetown University SMP
2) Boston University MAMS
3) EVMS Medical Masters
4) Drexel University IMS

I have received an interview to:
1) New York Medical College Accelerated Program

I am awaiting a reply from:
1) University of Cincinnati SMP
2) Loyola Chicago MAMS
3) Tufts University MBS
4) Temple University ACMS

Given my choices, which program would you recommend for a student who wants to matriculate into medical school right after graduation? Also, if you were to narrow down the choices to two schools which would they be and why?

Thank You.

 

[Freddo]

Temple > Ucinc > Georgetown >>>>> EVMS

 

[GorgeousBorges]

Temple > Ucinc > Georgetown >>>>> EVMS

Why so low on EVMS?

 

[tpsreport]

Georgetown = BU > UCinci = EVMS > Drexel. NYMC's program is also great because it's a feeder into their med school. All of these programs will cost about the same amount of money. Your grades aren't terrible, and your MCAT is good. If you have solid EC's I would recommend going to Georgetown and crushing their program rather than going to BU and taking their 2 year program. There's no reason to waste a year living in Boston if you know you can do well in these programs. Get a 3.7+ at Georgetown and you're set.

I strongly disagree with Freddo on his ranking of Temple and UCinci over Georgetown and his strong feelings against EVMS. EVMS is a linked program and is a very good way to get into med school.

I personally went to BU's program since my stats were 2.69 cGPA, 2.55s GPA, 37MCAT and I needed strong coursework, and was fortunate it worked out for me in the end. Feel free to message if you've questions!

 

[DrMidlife]

Can we pause for a moment and appreciate that we're being asked to vote on a well-organized SMP application strategy, in process? All the folks who are asking what SMPs are still open (or what SMPs are) should take heed. This is how it's done.
- - - - -
Temple's the only one on your list that can offer you confidence that you'll avoid a gap year.

But SERIOUSLY CONSIDER whether that gap year is so important to avoid. If you wait to apply until AFTER you finish the SMP, then you have your best possible application and will have the most choices in where you'll go to med school. A same-year-as-SMP application is a LATE application and that's never optimal. If you can avoid paying out-of-state tuition, that alone is worth waiting another year for.

Also consider your willingness to wait to decide. Seats open up as late as August in SMPs, as MD waitlists shake out. If you stay in touch with favored programs that haven't accepted you yet, then you might be the one they call to fill that seat the Friday before school starts. If you can stand the disorganization of a fast move, it can be worth it.

The EVMS med masters program got famous because it put so many of its students into EVMS MD. That is not the design of the program anymore, and it's not a small class size anymore. Consider EVMS as equivalent to Drexel, not to Cincinnati. See the EVMS threads in this forum.

My ranking, given your stats, would be:
1. Temple ("guaranteed" admission)
2. Cincinnati (small, strong program)
3. Gtown (huge, famous program)
4. Loyola (very well known program)
5. Boston (at least you're in Boston)
6. Tufts (ibid)
7. the rest

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

I strongly disagree with Freddo on his ranking of Temple and UCinci over Georgetown and his strong feelings against EVMS. EVMS is a linked program and is a very good way to get into med school.

I'm very amused by how resistant people are to accepting new information about EVMS. Freddo is a current student in the EVMS med masters. I was in the EVMS med masters in 2010-11. You can disagree with what we're saying all you like, but who are you helping?

 

[tpsreport]

I'm very amused by how resistant people are to accepting new information about EVMS. Freddo is a current student in the EVMS med masters. I was in the EVMS med masters in 2010-11. You can disagree with what we're saying all you like, but who are you helping?

I wasn't aware of this new info about EVMS. The program looked great when I was applying to SMPs in 2011. If you don't mind my asking, what happened to change their reputation?

 

[DrMidlife]

I wasn't aware of this new info about EVMS. The program looked great when I was applying to SMPs in 2011. If you don't mind my asking, what happened to change their reputation?

This has been discussed at length, for years, in the EVMS threads.

 

[deleted248403]

Can we pause for a moment and appreciate that we're being asked to vote on a well-organized SMP application strategy, in process? All the folks who are asking what SMPs are still open (or what SMPs are) should take heed. This is how it's done.

You mean you are sick of the "which SMPs can get I get into without doing anymore coursework with my cGPA of 2.5" or "which SMP can i get into with a 22 MCAT and I refuse to take the GRE"?

 

[GorgeousBorges]

Can we pause for a moment and appreciate that we're being asked to vote on a well-organized SMP application strategy, in process? All the folks who are asking what SMPs are still open (or what SMPs are) should take heed. This is how it's done.


The EVMS med masters program got famous because it put so many of its students into EVMS MD. That is not the design of the program anymore, and it's not a small class size anymore. Consider EVMS as equivalent to Drexel, not to Cincinnati. See the EVMS threads in this forum.

Props to amark for doing the SMP application process precisely how it's supposed to be done.

I didn't know that things had gotten so bad at EVMS. Obviously you and Freddo are actually there and have a much better idea of the reality on the ground. It's amazing and sad that an SMP can go from getting 85% of its last graduating class in same-year in 2013 to a Drexel equivalent a class later. SMPs have a tendency to become victims of their own success.

The University of Cincinnati SMP fortunately has no plans to expand, but it's funny how our program's strength is based largely on a relationship that does not officially exist. This year, University of Cincinnati College of Medicine has interviewed people in the program much later than they did last year, with many (most) people interviewing for the waitlist, many of whom have done extremely well. I won't give numbers until the cycle is over, but things have gone very differently than they did last year. We'll see how it all shakes out in the end.

I've been fortunate enough to be successful with a same-year application, but there is something kind of unsustainable about a program with a very great same-year admit rate. Either the program becomes so hard to get into that it's not really much different than getting into medical school itself (Temple, Tulane ACP, Cincinnati to a much lesser extent) or the program expands its class until the product is diluted down (EVMS, Drexel to ever greater and staggering degrees). And most programs don't even publish their results (Cincinnati being a happy exception), so all that you have to go on is hearsay from people in the program, but a lot of programs are so big that even people in the program don't have a good idea how their classmates are doing as a whole. It's a very hard decision. When DrMidlife says to spend hours and hours reading this forum, there's a very good reason for that. And keep up to date with the information, because it can change a lot from year to year.

 

[FormerPhysicist]

My ranking, given your stats, would be:
1. Temple ("guaranteed" admission)
2. Cincinnati (small, strong program)
3. Gtown (huge, famous program)
4. Loyola (very well known program)
5. Boston (at least you're in Boston)
6. Tufts (ibid)
7. the rest

Maybe it's something obvious that I'm missing, but I'm skeptical about Loyola being better than Boston/Tufts (excluding financial reasons). If it weren't for one thorough 2011 review in the "Rate Your SMP" thread and the class thread from last year (which had less than one page of posts on it, none of which gave any substantial information), I'd have no idea it existed despite lurking pretty heavily on this forum for the past year and a half.

I'd like to end up in the Chicago area for family reasons, and an alternative to RFU would be welcome. Without more info on what happens to their graduates though, the lack of readily available information makes me skittish to pull the (expensive) trigger on the program.

 

[DrMidlife]

I didn't know that things had gotten so bad at EVMS. Obviously you and Freddo are actually there and have a much better idea of the reality on the ground. It's amazing and sad that an SMP can go from getting 85% of its last graduating class in same-year in 2013 to a Drexel equivalent a class later. SMPs have a tendency to become victims of their own success.

Change does not equal badness. Drexel has no problem attracting students to its myriad postbacs and SMP programs, and those students go on to med school at Drexel and elsewhere. Georgetown/Boston/Tufts/Loyola/etc don't put a large number of their SMP grads straight into the host program. Nor does Cincinnati. So are these programs bad?

I'm obviously invested in the changes at EVMS, and I miss the program we had when there were only 23 in it. But the only actual real bona fide badness with the EVMS program is the lack of open honest forthright messaging to interested/incoming students. It's very (VERY) uncomfortable posting info on SDN that isn't consistent with what's on the EVMS website. I haven't looked lately, but for a long time there you couldn't get good info about BUMAMS or Loyola from their websites either. (Just looked, and the EVMS website is more accurate than it was six months ago on program results. Good.)

But the bottom line is that 20-30 EVMS med masters will continue to get straight into EVMS MD. Just like almost all the other SMPs. So if EVMS is bad, then almost all the SMPs are bad.

 

[DrMidlife]

Maybe it's something obvious that I'm missing, but I'm skeptical about Loyola being better than Boston/Tufts (excluding financial reasons). If it weren't for one thorough 2011 review in the "Rate Your SMP" thread and the class thread from last year (which had less than one page of posts on it, none of which gave any substantial information), I'd have no idea it existed despite lurking pretty heavily on this forum for the past year and a half.

I'd like to end up in the Chicago area for family reasons, and an alternative to RFU would be welcome. Without more info on what happens to their graduates though, the lack of readily available information makes me skittish to pull the (expensive) trigger on the program.

Loyola's program has been around a very long time, and it's well known to med school admissions officers nationwide.

I'm personally uncomfortable with the lax admissions at Boston, but there are SDN anecdotes of sub-3.0's getting into US MD schools from Boston. Maybe the good results are from it being a 2 year program with a real research year.

 

[amark]

Thank you everyone for your insight. However, I still am having a very hard time making a decision.

DrMidlife I completely agree with your advice to wait before finalizing one choice. Unfortunately, the programs that I have been accepted to have only given me between 1-2 weeks to accept/deny. I am considering paying the deposit to two or three of the programs and letting the others go. Therefore, I will have more time to research the options and make a more informed decision.

This question is open to all. Out of the four programs I have been accepted to which would you keep and which would you let go? From what I see, the best options to keep may be Georgetown and Boston, and let EVMS and Drexel go? Or should I also keep EVMS? I am very concerned about the hyper-competitive environment at GT, yet encouraged by the fact that they support students in applying prior to attending the program.

Overall, UCinn sounds like the best fit for myself, but that option is not yet available and I have to work with the cards I have at play.

 

[AntonFreeman]

Thank you everyone for your insight. However, I still am having a very hard time making a decision.

DrMidlife I completely agree with your advice to wait before finalizing one choice. Unfortunately, the programs that I have been accepted to have only given me between 1-2 weeks to accept/deny. I am considering paying the deposit to two or three of the programs and letting the others go. Therefore, I will have more time to research the options and make a more informed decision.

This question is open to all. Out of the four programs I have been accepted to which would you keep and which would you let go? From what I see, the best options to keep may be Georgetown and Boston, and let EVMS and Drexel go? Or should I also keep EVMS? I am very concerned about the hyper-competitive environment at GT, yet encouraged by the fact that they support students in applying prior to attending the program.

Overall, UCinn sounds like the best fit for myself, but that option is not yet available and I have to work with the cards I have at play.

I think you should keep Georgetown and go to UCinn when you get an acceptance. The idea of "they are supporting you applying while you are in the program/prior" is very mis-leading. When programs say that all they are doing for you is writing a letter of rec which come out pretty late in application cycle and don't mean much. You have to have pretty good application before coming in for school to wait for your SMP grades and you can send in your SMP grades wherever you do your SMP. I have read about students being over competitive in GT in forums and I am not a student there so I can't speak for the program. But wherever you do your SMP, you have to work hard. And As program gets bigger in size, you are bound to have more people that just can't handle the workload of medical school or just not motivated. As long as you are dedicated, and study efficiently, you can do well in SMP. I say you should try to attend Georgetown and Ucinn because those two are the best programs when it comes to getting people into other medicals schools (Georgetown) or host school (Ucinn). Schools are just more familiar with Georgetown than any other program. I am just guessing here but I feel that having a 3.7-4.0 in Georgetown might weight more than having similar kind of grades in other SMPs.

 

[GorgeousBorges]

RFU may be better at getting people into their host school than UCinn is.

 

[DrMidlife]

RFU may be better at getting people into their host school than UCinn is.

It is, but the similarities between the SMPs and host schools are few. I would assume RFU's attitude about generating candidates for its host school is subject to the same market forces that changed the EVMS program. With any program that offers really strong results, a smart consumer will stay on top of year-to-year changes.

 

[DrMidlife]

Unfortunately, the programs that I have been accepted to have only given me between 1-2 weeks to accept/deny.

What's the unfortunate part here? You have multiple programs to choose from. You should be totally blissed out to have this "problem".

I am considering paying the deposit to two or three of the programs and letting the others go. Therefore, I will have more time to research the options and make a more informed decision.

Yep. We're talking maybe $200, $300? Even if it's $500, that's tiny tiny money compared with the cost of applying to med school (5 figures) and the cost of going to med school (6 figures).

Enjoy! It'll never be this simple again. 🙂

 

[Freddo]

But the only actual real bona fide badness with the EVMS program is the lack of open honest forthright messaging to interested/incoming students.

This.

Nearly every student in our program this year will tell you that they were directly assured the program would be capped at about 50. There were 70 when we arrived. The biggest issue is that evms has no precedent for placing students in other medical programs, and until that happens consistently and en masse I would have a hard time recommending this to a friend. The faculty here are wonderfully kind people, and this is the opportunity of a lifetime. It's just a massive 40-50 thousand dollar risk. Lets just see how this year goes, then we can decide. Put down the deposit at evms, then check the numbers to see if the 85-90% stick once the program finishes.

 

[DrMidlife]

The biggest issue is that evms has no precedent for placing students in other medical programs, and until that happens consistently and en masse I would have a hard time recommending this to a friend.

Well, when the program was smaller, people got in elsewhere in numbers similar to Cincy, but since it started growing that seems to be happening less.
Med masters class of 2010 has people graduating from: SUNY Upstate, USUHS, OHSU, Stony Brook, UCI (5 of 23, 1 to DO school, 1 to Carib, the rest to EVMS eventually)
2011: UNC (2), Tennessee, Tufts and GW (5 of 23, 1 to PA school, the rest at EVMS eventually)
2012: Pitt? Was it Pitt? And somebody got into Marshall but didn't go. (1 of 28, maybe 25 at EVMS MD now?)
2013: 2 at UNC, 2 got into WVU but didn't go, couple more? (maybe 4 of 40, ~32 at EVMS MD, 4 pending)
2014: 2 already left for UNC, correct? (2 so far out of 66)

this is the opportunity of a lifetime... It's just a massive 40-50 thousand dollar risk.

It's not both. Pick a perspective. If you're betting on EVMS MD right after finishing the med masters, then it's an expensive risk. If your GPA is low and you want to get into a US MD school, then it's a good opportunity (as with any good SMP) if you make friends with the possibility of a gap year.

Lets just see how this year goes, then we can decide. Put down the deposit at evms, then check the numbers to see if the 85-90% stick once the program finishes.

It's not going to be 85%-90%. That era is gone.

 

[AntonFreeman]

Well, when the program was smaller, people got in elsewhere in numbers similar to Cincy, but since it started growing that seems to be happening less.
Med masters class of 2010 has people graduating from: SUNY Upstate, USUHS, OHSU, Stony Brook, UCI (5 of 23, 1 to DO school, 1 to Carib, the rest to EVMS eventually)
2011: UNC (2), Tennessee, Tufts and GW (5 of 23, 1 to PA school, the rest at EVMS eventually)
2012: Pitt? Was it Pitt? And somebody got into Marshall but didn't go. (1 of 28, maybe 25 at EVMS MD now?)
2013: 2 at UNC, 2 got into WVU but didn't go, couple more? (maybe 4 of 40, ~32 at EVMS MD, 4 pending)
2014: 2 already left for UNC, correct? (2 so far out of 66)

It's not both. Pick a perspective. If you're betting on EVMS MD right after finishing the med masters, then it's an expensive risk. If your GPA is low and you want to get into a US MD school, then it's a good opportunity (as with any good SMP) if you make friends with the possibility of a gap year.

It's not going to be 85%-90%. That era is gone.

I think you have consider the fact that when program was smaller it attracted more competitive pool of students. I don't think students who get into other schools in same SMP year got into those schools because of they did EVMS SMP. They probably have gotten in doing any other SMPs out there. From what I heard historically Medical Masters have had higher averages than med students. This year, there are a lot of students struggling and our averages on the tests have been lower than med students.

 

[amark]

Thank you again for your replies everyone.

At the moment, I am going to pay the deposits for Georgetown, Boston U, and EVMS. I have not heard much about Drexel University; is that because it is not up to par with the other programs? Additionally, it seems like the advantage to the NYMC program is that it has a strong linkage to its medical school. However, in that situation it may be better to choose EVMS over NYMC as it also has a strong linkage.

Now if I were to undertake a gap year after the SMP in hopes of getting into programs other than the host school how would the order change? I am assuming Georgetown would be at the top, possibly followed by Boston?

 

[DrMidlife]

Additionally, it seems like the advantage to the NYMC program is that it has a strong linkage to its medical school. However, in that situation it may be better to choose EVMS over NYMC as it also has a strong linkage.

FACEPALM!!! I realize there's a lot of EVMS blather above to wade through, but please go back and see if you really want to use the word "linkage" to describe the EVMS med masters program. You are not being a very smart consumer to ignore all the info placed in front of you like a salad bar.

Now if I were to undertake a gap year after the SMP in hopes of getting into programs other than the host school how would the order change? I am assuming Georgetown would be at the top, possibly followed by Boston?

The order I listed assumes a gap year would kill no actual kittens.

 

[amark]

I understand that linkage may not have been the best word, but my point is that I am likely going to put a deposit down specifically so I can do more research into the program itself before making a final decision.

 

[DrMidlife]

I understand that linkage may not have been the best word, but my point is that I am likely going to put a deposit down specifically so I can do more research into the program itself before making a final decision.

Now you're talking. PROCESS. This is good.

 

[sschance]

Hey, I would not recommend coming to EVMS.

Class expansion to 100 students next year, and they are definitely not going to accept 80 kids from that 100 into EVMS MD.

 

[nocturnal15m]

I too am having trouble deciding on a program. I have read many posts on this forum especially regarding Georgetown and Tufts and I am still undecided =(. Of course, if I got into Temple, there's no argument there, I'm going.

I got into:
Georgetown's SMP
Boston's MAMS, recently declined their offer
Tuft's MBS

Waitlisted for:
Cincinnati's SMP
EVMS

Rejected from:
Drexel DPMS and was offered IMS, but I declined

Waiting for:
Temple ACMS

If anyone has any opinions, or insight on Georgetown, Cincinnati and Tuft's, I would really appreciate it. Especially those who graduated from one of those programs or have already made a decision and explain why they made the choice they did.

Thank you.

 

[amark]

Hello everyone,

I have been accepted to all the SMP's I applied to except for NYMC (Waitlisted), Temple (Waiting), and Tufts (Waiting).

I have narrowed it down to:
1) Georgetown U
2) University of Cincinnati
3) Boston University

I am leaning towards dropping Boston. Please give me your advice on which program would be the best fit for me. I will say that I would preferably like to go to my state school (of course I fully understand this may not happen).

Your advice is well appreciated.

 

[FormerPhysicist]

Hello everyone,

I have been accepted to all the SMP's I applied to except for NYMC (Waitlisted), Temple (Waiting), and Tufts (Waiting).

I have narrowed it down to:
1) Georgetown U
2) University of Cincinnati
3) Boston University

I am leaning towards dropping Boston. Please give me your advice on which program would be the best fit for me. I will say that I would preferably like to go to my state school (of course I fully understand this may not happen).

Your advice is well appreciated.

I'm fairly similar similar to you stat-wise and applied to most of the same programs as you. I've more or less settled on Boston (depending on what happens w/ Temple) mostly because I feel like I'm not the type of applicant that would get into GTown/Cincy straight after the SMP. If you've done your research and concluded that alumni with similar stats to you have matriculated to the host schools, then by all means, go for it.

For what it's worth, all 3 programs are on fairly equal ground when it comes to state school admission. In order to get the full benefit of the program, you'll have to apply the summer after the end of classes. The difference in my decision was that Boston will set me up for a year of research during the interim, whereas the other two would leave me on my own for the year.

 

[The Helpful Aye Aye]

I'm fairly similar similar to you stat-wise and applied to most of the same programs as you. I've more or less settled on Boston (depending on what happens w/ Temple) mostly because I feel like I'm not the type of applicant that would get into GTown/Cincy straight after the SMP. If you've done your research and concluded that alumni with similar stats to you have matriculated to the host schools, then by all means, go for it.

For what it's worth, all 3 programs are on fairly equal ground when it comes to state school admission. In order to get the full benefit of the program, you'll have to apply the summer after the end of classes. The difference in my decision was that Boston will set me up for a year of research during the interim, whereas the other two would leave me on my own for the year.

Cinci has the benefit of allowing you to apply for Ohio residency after completion of the program, which will save you a bit in tuition. Other than that (assuming you're not from any of these states to begin with), people on this forum have nothing to offer you in terms of solid reasons to choose between the legitimate SMP's. What are you looking for in terms of environment?

 

[trishaaah]

I'm waiting for Temple ACMS, too, and am also applying to NYMC, Tufts, BU, Loyola and Case Western.

I got in touch with Tufts and they said you have 3 weeks to decide if you're going to attend or not. Case Western said that there is no definite time that you need to let them know by. Can anyone who was accepted into those other programs let me know if there is a certain amount of time that you have to accept/decline?

I'm really gunning for and dying for ACMS, but have been waiting a while to hear anything back like it seems almost all of the applicants this year are doing. I'm trying to coordinate sending my LORs to complete my other applications so that I don't get a couple acceptances in May in case I don't get an interview/acceptance from ACMS until some time in June...

Thanks!

 

[amark]

Cinci has the benefit of allowing you to apply for Ohio residency after completion of the program, which will save you a bit in tuition. Other than that (assuming you're not from any of these states to begin with), people on this forum have nothing to offer you in terms of solid reasons to choose between the legitimate SMP's. What are you looking for in terms of environment?

I am very independent in my studying and I rarely use advisors, however I am worried about how the class size difference between Cincinnati and Georgetown will affect me. Specifically I would like to know if it will make a difference on how the medical schools view my application. Will they look down on GT because it has a class size of 180 vs Cincinnati's 32? I am from a large state school so I am used to very large classes. Additionally, I realize that both of these programs will be academically rigorous, but in the end the goal is to do extremely well in the SMP, so is either program easier to do well in grading wise?

 

[The Helpful Aye Aye]

I am very independent in my studying and I rarely use advisors, however I am worried about how the class size difference between Cincinnati and Georgetown will affect me. Specifically I would like to know if it will make a difference on how the medical schools view my application. Will they look down on GT because it has a class size of 180 vs Cincinnati's 32? I am from a large state school so I am used to very large classes. Additionally, I realize that both of these programs will be academically rigorous, but in the end the goal is to do extremely well in the SMP, so is either program easier to do well in grading wise?

I'm going to be totally honest here- it's highly likely that what you're used to is part of the reason why you need an SMP in the first place. Advising is a integral part of SMPs, since they are there to help you with your application (which is probably weaker than you think it is) and they'll be the ones sending grade updates to the schools you want to apply to.

Class size isn't the same as number of people in your classes. If you factor in the M1's you'll be taking classes with it, then Cinci's class is sufficiently large such that nobody gives **** about that difference between the number of students in the SMP class. In terms of rigor, nobody can really say. Tufts does pass, fail, high pass, honors, but that doesn't say anything about how hard the program is.

 

[ahallowell]

Johns Hopkins just started up a new SMP program (one year health science intensive - MS in biotechnology). Is anyone familiar with this program? Would this program be worth applying for/attending? I'm mainly interested in GT and Temple, but I like the idea of gaining a masters from JHU. Do you think med schools will appreciate this program like GT's? I want to be careful which SMP to choose (they are expensive!)

 

[DrMidlife]

Johns Hopkins just started up a new SMP program (one year health science intensive - MS in biotechnology). Is anyone familiar with this program? Would this program be worth applying for/attending? I'm mainly interested in GT and Temple, but I like the idea of gaining a masters from JHU. Do you think med schools will appreciate this program like GT's? I want to be careful which SMP to choose (they are expensive!)

Not an SMP. There are thousands of one-year masters programs that are not SMPs. The "S" in SMP means you're taking med school classes with med school students, which adcoms can understand fairly easily, and the only point of an SMP is to get you into med school. Hopkins' biotech masters is actually useful and gives you employable skills, but if you need an SMP to get into med school then it's not a good choice.

Programs like this (and Dartmouth's TDI, the other Hopkins masters, NIH IRTA, etc) are good if your stats are already fine. Adcoms don't have to judge whether the transcript counterbalances your low stats, they just see a high powered academicky EC.

Best of luck to you.

 

[type12]

Not an SMP. There are thousands of one-year masters programs that are not SMPs. The "S" in SMP means you're taking med school classes with med school students, which adcoms can understand fairly easily, and the only point of an SMP is to get you into med school. Hopkins' biotech masters is actually useful and gives you employable skills, but if you need an SMP to get into med school then it's not a good choice.

Programs like this (and Dartmouth's TDI, the other Hopkins masters, NIH IRTA, etc) are good if your stats are already fine. Adcoms don't have to judge whether the transcript counterbalances your low stats, they just see a high powered academicky EC.

Best of luck to you.

I've been rejected from some of the high-profile SMPs, which one(s) would you recommend though? Are there any that are easier to get into or friendlier to people who do not have med school stats?

 

[DrMidlife]

I've been rejected from some of the high-profile SMPs, which one(s) would you recommend though? Are there any that are easier to get into or friendlier to people who do not have med school stats?

If the high profile SMPs won't let you in, then you're not done with undergrad and/or with the MCAT, if you want to get into a US MD school, unless you're a resident of a soft state.

In general if 4 years of undergrad don't demonstrate that you're med school material, you can't "fix" that problem with 1 year of strong work. If your GPA is beyond redemption, you still have to produce a multiple year mostly hard science 3.7+ undergrad performance for MD schools, after which you might also still need an SMP. 2 years of rigorous grad work, in some cases, can get that job done, but there is not some formula that can tell you exactly what to do.

People on SDN seem to think that there's some recipe to follow, or some bar they have to get over on a GPA comeback. Totally the wrong way to think about it, and this minimalist attitude just results in more money spent, more gap years, more rejections. With low stats, even with redemption work, you are in the no pile and adcoms by default have no motivation to be nice to you because schools get 5000 apps for 150 seats. So you have to be the real deal and over-demonstrate your bona fides for med school. You have to produce a med school app that makes adcoms want to fight for you over your squeaky clean competition. Your traditionally successful premed colleagues simply cannot be used as a ruler for what you should do. (By the way, there are a surprising number of those traditionally successful premeds in the better SMPs; you're competing against them for an SMP seat.)

Best of luck to you.

 

[type12]

I guess the confusion comes from being interviewed and waitlisted (and rejected of course) by medical schools. It's frustrating to feel like there's very little holding me back, but maybe there's more holding me back than I think. I asked med schools what I needed to fix (GPA, medical exp, essay), fixed that before applying (except my 3.2 uGPA), and still nothing (one feedback said the new essay, they couldn't put down).

Are Admissions Committees like the real world? They don't want to tell you the REALLY REALLY bad because they don't want to hurt your feelings? Like, perhaps a very very negative recommendation (though I didn't ask anyone I didn't trust)?

 

[deleted248403]

I guess the confusion comes from being interviewed and waitlisted (and rejected of course) by medical schools. It's frustrating to feel like there's very little holding me back, but maybe there's more holding me back than I think. I asked med schools what I needed to fix (GPA, medical exp, essay), fixed that before applying (except my 3.2 uGPA), and still nothing (one feedback said the new essay, they couldn't put down).

Are Admissions Committees like the real world? They don't want to tell you the REALLY REALLY bad because they don't want to hurt your feelings? Like, perhaps a very very negative recommendation (though I didn't ask anyone I didn't trust)?

Sounds like you need to start thinking about whether there is a negative LOR in your app, or whether you interview poorly.

Or you pissed off someone in the support staff - a lot of people forget (both for med school and residency) that your interview is every single interaction with the program. From calling the admissions lady, to the secretary welcoming you on interview day, to the random person in the hallway. An off the cuff comment or being rude to the wrong person can sink an application. Not saying this applies to you but people regularly do not get residencies/med school seats for being rude or short to someone in the support staff - they have way more sway then most people think

 

[death prophet]

I've been rejected from some of the high-profile SMPs, which one(s) would you recommend though? Are there any that are easier to get into or friendlier to people who do not have med school stats?

Hi type12,

How are the other aspects besides gpa/mcat in your app? Is there a possibility that you don't have enough clinical experience or a bad letter?
I applied to four relatively "known" smps (evms, rfu, gt, cincinnati) and got into all of them with a gpa <3.0 and <32 mcat. Both gpa/mcat I believe are below cincinnati's and gt's averages. Although gpa/mcat are very important, I personally believe that they are over-valued in terms of gaining smp acceptances- I cringe when I see people just asking about gpa/mcat when asking about their chances of getting into a particular smp. Plenty of posters have much better "stats" but do not get in, probably because the rest of their application is lacking in some area.

 

[DrMidlife]

I think the 3.2 is the big fat thing, and that an SMP generally is the best next thing to do, but in lieu of a Gtown/Cincy you should go after BU/Tufts and other 2 year programs now, for the sake of knowing what to do next. And be godlike in your MCAT retake plan.

My guesses here are that your interview/waitlist/rejection schools were probably public in your home state, which in less competitive states means all residents get interviewed & waitlisted, and that your MCAT doesn't help your GPA, which would explain getting rejected by the better SMPs.

One dirty secret with MD admissions is that there are lots and lots of draws. 40 candidates look absolutely identical and you can only take 2. All 40 are above the bar, quite deserving of a seat, and the med school would be happy to have them. 38 are getting thrown under the bus. In the middle of the pack, you're actually in a random lottery. Well, if you're lucky it's random, because lots of times somebody's gut feel makes the choice, and you never know if that's about ultimate frisbee or somebody's college roommate or what.

Sorry, this is all really tough to stomach. Don't assume it has much, if anything, to do with your actual capabilities. My classmates that I most want to kick in the nuts, and with whom I never, ever want to have to work, were high stat premeds. I dream of getting to chat with their mothers. "I'm so sorry you sacrificed and suffered for your Johnny, because he represents everything wrong with the world, is a narcissistic douchebag, and is going to be a s**tty doctor who will have constant lawsuits because nurses and families can't stand him."

 

[type12]

Hi type12,

How are the other aspects besides gpa/mcat in your app? Is there a possibility that you don't have enough clinical experience or a bad letter?
I applied to four relatively "known" smps (evms, rfu, gt, cincinnati) and got into all of them with a gpa <3.0 and <32 mcat. Both gpa/mcat I believe are below cincinnati's and gt's averages. Although gpa/mcat are very important, I personally believe that they are over-valued in terms of gaining smp acceptances- I cringe when I see people just asking about gpa/mcat when asking about their chances of getting into a particular smp. Plenty of posters have much better "stats" but do not get in, probably because the rest of their application is lacking in some area.

I applied to GT, USF IMS, NYMC SMP, and UCinn. I got waitlisted at GT and UCinn, and rejected from USF IMS and NYMC SMP. I am completing my apps for EVMS and RFU (and MANY others) late because I really thought I'd get into one of these four programs. I know it's pretty late, but less chance is better than no chance!

Thanks for the kind words @DrMidlife and @robflanker. I have a 34 MCAT, and with the exception of one school, yes, it was home state schools.

 

[GypsyHummus]

If the high profile SMPs won't let you in, then you're not done with undergrad and/or with the MCAT, if you want to get into a US MD school, unless you're a resident of a soft state.

In general if 4 years of undergrad don't demonstrate that you're med school material, you can't "fix" that problem with 1 year of strong work. If your GPA is beyond redemption, you still have to produce a multiple year mostly hard science 3.7+ undergrad performance for MD schools, after which you might also still need an SMP. 2 years of rigorous grad work, in some cases, can get that job done, but there is not some formula that can tell you exactly what to do.

People on SDN seem to think that there's some recipe to follow, or some bar they have to get over on a GPA comeback. Totally the wrong way to think about it, and this minimalist attitude just results in more money spent, more gap years, more rejections. With low stats, even with redemption work, you are in the no pile and adcoms by default have no motivation to be nice to you because schools get 5000 apps for 150 seats. So you have to be the real deal and over-demonstrate your bona fides for med school. You have to produce a med school app that makes adcoms want to fight for you over your squeaky clean competition. Your traditionally successful premed colleagues simply cannot be used as a ruler for what you should do. (By the way, there are a surprising number of those traditionally successful premeds in the better SMPs; you're competing against them for an SMP seat.)

Best of luck to you.

Does this assessment change with state schools that are required to take in a certain amount of in state students?

 

[DrMidlife]

Does this assessment change with state schools that are required to take in a certain amount of in state students?

No. Every public med school rejects the majority of instate apps, and it's a mistake to assume the rejection pile is full of underqualified people. The average GPA is lower in the rejection pile, but we're talking ~3.5 vs. >3.6.

There are about 20,000 US MD seats, and about 45,000 applicants. The average US MD school gets 5000 apps for 150 seats. Public state schools with nice low tuition are extremely popular.

AAMC has "FACTS" tables where you can see exactly what happens. https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/

Vermont is particularly amusing, because they have fewer than 100 total instate applicants per year, and their public med school has over 100 seats. But they still only take around a third of their own.

My point is not to discourage or beat anybody down, but to save you the time, money and misery of applying before you've done the work to have a real chance.

Best of luck to you.

 

[bmy]

Yea I am having a hard time deciding btw

1. NYMC AMP
2. Gtown smp
3. RFU bms.

my gut feeling is telling me to go to NYMC AMP, but I like how RFU BMS i don't need to retake MCAT. HOWEVER, I personally like NYMC more than RFU b/c of the research opportunities there in the long run for residency. But at the same time, for RFU I don't need to retake MCAT and I don't have too much confidence after taking it twice already. Maybe I will do better if I were to retake? Can I predict the future? no. So I do not know. RFU program sounds like I can at least get into an MD school, but possibly end up primary care (quite possibly). However, if I were to spend another 50K before Med school, I do not wanna end up primary care.

Gtown, sounds very competitive there. And I gotta apply to many schools again, not really wanna do that. Also living in DC is very expensive, no joke. It sounds like they just throw you into a sea of students, MS1 and the current SMP students, you either drown or survive.

So I am leaning toward NYMC AMP, a lot of advising, good med school with research opportunities. The only obstacle in front of me is MCAT. oh my lord. I feel like this test is forever in my face. If RFU has more opportunities, this would have been an easy choice.

 

[bmy]

Hey! So the interview was rather chill. There were three people who interview you, and two of them were really chill and the last one was more serious (or depending on your order of interviewers). The serious one is more like the normal med interview, and ask you about your clinical involvement, extracurricular, why you wanna be a doctor, and of course, ask me to explain that one bad semester I had. That is all, very nice.

I decided to go with NYMC and apply after program is done. I applied once before, so I don't feel like reapplying immediately. Georgetown, I decided not to do it; I also went to campus after I got accepted and it sounds very intense. The first test is after two wks of schools started. Then another test in two wks, and that will be your first grade. I have been out of school for 2 years, so I don't think I can adjust so fast, even if I work my butt off. Expensive risk to take. I went on-campus for the interview b/c I was around east coast at the time, and I liked the campus a lot when I visited. Good luck! They are very nice people.

 

[motz]

How come people here don't like Drexel's IMS?

 

[ymmit]

Hey! So the interview was rather chill. There were three people who interview you, and two of them were really chill and the last one was more serious (or depending on your order of interviewers). The serious one is more like the normal med interview, and ask you about your clinical involvement, extracurricular, why you wanna be a doctor, and of course, ask me to explain that one bad semester I had. That is all, very nice.

I decided to go with NYMC and apply after program is done. I applied once before, so I don't feel like reapplying immediately. Georgetown, I decided not to do it; I also went to campus after I got accepted and it sounds very intense. The first test is after two wks of schools started. Then another test in two wks, and that will be your first grade. I have been out of school for 2 years, so I don't think I can adjust so fast, even if I work my butt off. Expensive risk to take. I went on-campus for the interview b/c I was around east coast at the time, and I liked the campus a lot when I visited. Good luck! They are very nice people.

bmy, what made you feel like Gtown was super intense? (aside from the test schedules)
How is their advising there for students who want to apply to med schools the same year?

 

[bmy]

bmy, what made you feel like Gtown was super intense? (aside from the test schedules)
How is their advising there for students who want to apply to med schools the same year?

Hey! I am sure there're plenty who can do well in the program! But it's not for me. The classes sound very large, with MS1 and the ~150 SMP kids. More people, more competition. I am more comfortable with a smaller program. I cannot comment on the actual intensity b/c I haven't gone through it, it's just my speculation based on various factors. You should prob. ask kids who have done it. Also DC is very expensive to live in, which is also something I factor in.
Not sure about their advising, but there're a group of advisors who are there to help you if you need. So it's definitely a solid program!

 

[ymmit]

Hey! I am sure there're plenty who can do well in the program! But it's not for me. The classes sound very large, with MS1 and the ~150 SMP kids. More people, more competition. I am more comfortable with a smaller program. I cannot comment on the actual intensity b/c I haven't gone through it, it's just my speculation based on various factors. You should prob. ask kids who have done it. Also DC is very expensive to live in, which is also something I factor in.
Not sure about their advising, but there're a group of advisors who are there to help you if you need. So it's definitely a solid program!

Thank you 🙂