advice on recent dismissal from ma program

[apollo2000]

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This is a sad and shameful account of my personal situation where I was dismissed from my Masters program. I was dismissed on the grounds of unethical conduct. The circumstances are quite complex but essentially, after I finished my coursework and comps, I applied for a license. I indicated that my graduation date was the date I finished my courses as I spoke to a woman at the board and she indicated that my credits were sufficient, even though I still had to complete my thesis. i did submit official transcripts with the application to the board which didn't indicate that I graduated and my license was approved. I forged nothing.

Anyway, eventually the licensing board caught this but never removed my license from the verification system, and when I applied for a position, the license was active and I started working. Apparently, the board tried to reach me by certified mail but I never got the letter indicating that I may not practice until a year later when I tried to renew my license. I got a letter in the mail after I contacted the board to ask why my license was no longer in the system and could not be renewed. I had a large caseload at the time and I wasn't going to abandon them or tell this fact to my employer. I did however eventually resign from the position and stop practicing completely.

So many months later, my school found out about this after noticing my name on the internet with the credentials and inquired about this with me. After I told them the situation, they dismissed me. I completed all credits and a thesis, passing the comps, I had one re-take to complete before graduation and they moved right to dismissal and no other sanction or corrective action.

I checked the board's website and looked at the disciplinary actions taken by the board for similar offenses for people with similar credentials. Many had only their license suspended for gross misconduct like sexual relationships and medicaid fraud. It was only in severe felonies that licenses were revoked or after the person didn't follow through on the recommendations of the board that the penalty was increased.

My point is that dismissal from the program seems severe in relation to the offense as other licensed individuals are only getting suspensions for obvious and harmful ethical behaviors with clients. My misconduct was more procedural and harmed no one as I had the required education and supervised experience (3,000 hours). I feel the school just wanted me out and doesn't care about all my work or me.

This is the gist of the story, although there are a few important notes to make, particularly that one of my professors served as the chairwomen of the credentialing committee of that state board throughout this entire ordeal. Secondly, as more obvious, was that the board never followed through and removed my license from the public verification system nor did they follow up after the certified letter was returned to them. I know this because the school obtained all this information from the board and presented this to me.

Anyone have any input to help me? I am going to appeal the decision. Does anyone know if I can sue the school for excessive or severe punishment? I am seeking serious and honest advice on this matter, as I simply want my degree and to take this matter up with the board. Thanks.

 

[psich]

I'm not sure if I understood this completely, so please correct me if I am wrong:

You initially got the license from your state board to practice as a master's level clinician despite the fact that you did not get your degree (because you did not complete your thesis at the time). You were not supposed to practice with your license because you did not officially graduate, but you continued to do so under your employer. While this was happening, you were still a student in the program working on completing your final requirements. But later when the school found out that you obtained a license and were practicing, they dismissed you.

I'm sorry that this happened and it's clear you feel some remorse about this ordeal. However, I understand the school's decision to dismiss you if I understood the situation correctly. You fraudulently obtained a license through the board and were practicing under false pretenses. Although the board should have caught this earlier, it was your responsibility to be familiar with the state regulations to know you cannot practice without having the proper credentials. Their missing the graduation requirements was a mistake, but it sounds like what you did to get the license (applying and working without having a degree) was intentional.

Not taking care of things on your end (1) put you in a compromising position because you don't have the credentials; (2) it also puts the clients you are seeing in a compromising position because they were technically not seeing a licensed professional who had completed set requirements; (3) you violated laws and regulations of the state; (4) it also put the school in a bad light because of your behavior since you received your education from that institution and you also stated that you received your degree from the university even though you did not; and (5) it held your employer liable because you were working under their supervision without proper credentials.

What you did could have been potentially harmful not just to your clients, but to yourself, your employer, and your program. Unfortunately, the way you went about obtaining your license was no doubt unethical. Although you are comparing certain examples of gross misconduct with your situation, I think that your situation is still serious, albeit in a different way.

If the faculty member in your program was on the state board, maybe you can go to her for guidance on what went wrong, the board's/school's thought process on your case, or how to resolve the issue. We certainly can't give out legal advice so it might help to consult a lawyer if you want any information about that.

Wish you the best.

 

[apollo2000]

Thanks for your reply. Sounds like you agree with the school's decision to dismiss me. The only detail I would correct or add was that I was an independent contractor and the position didnt stipulate a MA. I planned on addressing this matter with the board when I got my degree because I was told my 60 credits was sufficient and the board gave me the license.

 

[BSWdavid]

Thanks for your reply. Sounds like you agree with the school's decision to dismiss me. The only detail I would correct or add was that I was an independent contractor and the position didnt stipulate a MA. I planned on addressing this matter with the board when I got my degree because I was told my 60 credits was sufficient and the board gave me the license.

I have to agree with Psich. Were you not clear on the graduation requirement? It isn't disputable that a degree is required to obtain a license. The minimum credit hour may have been correct, but you still needed your degree to apply. My question is, why did you apply for your license knowing that you hadn't yet graduated? In my opinion, you lead the board to believe you had in fact graduated. Even if the board made a mistake, you were still in the wrong by applying for the license in the first place. By applying for the license, you stated that you had met the minimum requirements, which included having obtained an MA, therefore, you intentionally defrauded the board.

In my opinion, you spotted a loophole, per say, and realized you could get away with applying for a license because you had the 60hrs needed; however, you also were well aware that you hand't graduated and having your diploma was part of the deal, which I think you hoped would be missed. Therefore, you were in fact unethical by deceiving the board, and attempting to become licensed despite not have received your MA. The school did what they had to do given the circumstances.

 

[pingouin]

This is a sad and shameful account of my personal situation where I was dismissed from my Masters program. I was dismissed on the grounds of unethical conduct. The circumstances are quite complex but essentially, after I finished my coursework and comps, I applied for a license. I indicated that my graduation date was the date I finished my courses as I spoke to a woman at the board and she indicated that my credits were sufficient, even though I still had to complete my thesis. i did submit official transcripts with the application to the board which didn't indicate that I graduated and my license was approved. I forged nothing.

Thanks for your reply. Sounds like you agree with the school's decision to dismiss me. The only detail I would correct or add was that I was an independent contractor and the position didnt stipulate a MA. I planned on addressing this matter with the board when I got my degree because I was told my 60 credits was sufficient and the board gave me the license.

Although your coursework may have been completed, your thesis was not. There is a big difference between a program meeting the required hours to apply for licensure and a student having completed ALL (not MOST) of the requirements for graduation. It sounds like the woman in the licensure office verified the former- yes, your program meets their minimum standards. Putting down your date of course completion as your "graduation date" is fraud if the degree has not been formally conferred.

Why this was not caught during the verification process, I have no idea nor do I care to speculate. But if YOU fraudulently listed your graduation date, and YOU signed the attestation at the end of the form that all the information you have provided is accurate, then YOU pay the consequences, whatever they may be. Feel free to appeal, sue, whatever you want to do, but I honestly would be pretty shocked if the state overturned that decision- or the school, for that matter.

 

[Ollie123]

Yeah...I'm sorry, but I really have to agree with everyone else here. You knew you had not graduated and lied to the board, and everything you have posted implies it was intentional and you knew what you were doing (i.e. listing your graduation date would certainly imply that you have graduated). That's not the sort of thing that makes you friends either with the board or your institution. I'm no lawyer, but I think arguing the board should have caught your attempt at fraud sooner is not exactly a stellar defense plan.

At best I think you are looking at starting over at another school, assuming you can get in somewhere with a blemish like that on your record. You can try suing, but I'm VERY doubtful anything would come of it besides you wasting your own time and money, and the time and money of other people who have better things to be doing. This was a pretty cut & dry "wrong" thing to do, not a grey area, so I'm not sure why an appeal would be warranted or what could be said there.

 

[erg923]

I will be more bold than most and say that Im not sure what ground you think you have to stand on should you appeal, or sue, or whatever.

The only argument I see here is that you think the dismissal is harsh? Is that correct? I think its kinda harsh that a redlight violation in CA is 500 bucks, but thats not really a legally viable objection, right? Of course its harsh! Consequences are supposed to be deterrents. That why they exisit, to deter people from the behavior in the first place. Second, obviously, its your responsibility to know the ins and outs of licensing requirements and when you officially graduate from your program (I find it hard to believe that you thought you had "graduated" from your program when had not yet been awarded a degree), so that certainty isn't a reasonable compliant/objection either.... Thus, I dont really understand what the issue is here?

 

[BSWdavid]

I'm actually quite alarmed you posted this on SDN in the first place. Are you really surprised the school dismissed you? Your actions were not only unethical but also ILLEGAL! The issue I can't get my head around is why would you sacrifice everything and apply for your license before you had graduated? Did you honestly think you would get away with it? I am quite surprised the board didn't ensure you had graduated. What a gamble. 😕

 

[apollo2000]

Thanks for your responses. I told the board on the phone that I had a thesis to complete, and they sent me an application, I was told the 60 credits were sufficient, I didn't think anything of it at that time.

I still think that after all the work I completed, that a dismissal is severe. I had stopped working when I obtained the letter from the board which was 6 months before the school found out about this.

 

[psich]

I see where you are coming from and you have been open to different perspectives by taking criticism from the forum. However, I am slightly concerned and surprised that you do not see the severity of your actions.

The process was doomed from the very beginning and I think that even though you took some corrective action after you got the letter from the board, it was too little too late. What you did was an egregious violation of ethics and state law. In most, if not all, cases working as a clinician and obtaining a license requires a master's degree. Since you did not complete your thesis, you did not obtain a graduate degree. But I'm guessing you continued to put "M.A., LMHC/LPC/LAC/etc." after your name. If not, then you must have put "B.A. or B.S., LMHC/LPC/LAC/etc.", but...that's not possible either. Either way, it was wrong.

Take a look at it from their perspective. You took some corrective action later but that was after you had worked under false pretenses. Even though it was their error, it was your responsibility to make sure that you were in the clear. Your actions opened the door to litigation against yourself and your employer, at the very least. Although you did not commit any other violations (...as far as we know), you could have. And you would not have been bound by the same laws and regulations as a licensed professional because you were not cleared by the state. It really isn't just about what happened, but also the potential for what could have gone wrong. Who knows what you were doing? That is what the board and school were thinking. You essentially went rogue.

Do you really think that a dismissal is too harsh a consequence for this type of action?

 

[apollo2000]

Of course I understand the seriousness of the situation. But as you said it was doomed from the start. However, I was not doing anything else and no harm came of this. I simply worked for one year in this capacity. When I got the letter, I transferred my clients and resigned because I then understood the nature of the situation. I didn't represent myself as licensed clinician further and I planned to address this matter with the board. I still think that to throw me away for this is severe. I completed the entire program with a thesis, I had one course to complete to finish. I don't think that I should have been dismissed. But I do appreciate you presenting your opinion as this is what the school is going to maintain.

 

[stigmata]

There is clearly some negligence on the part of the school and the board, but essentially it is your responsibility to make sure everything is in order. You have little recourse with your school at this point, and your best bet is to get your credits transferred to another program and finish. Then you can get licensed properly.

 

[pingouin]

One thing I'm not clear on is the 3000 supervised clinical hours you say you had. Where I live, those hours start accruing only after graduation from a program for both the LCSW and LPC. (Although there may be some hours that can be applied from MA Counseling practica/internship, but I know it's only a small percentage, not the full 3000. I'm not as knowledgable about the details of that license as I am the LCSW.) For both licenses, it's a minimum 2 years to complete supervised work experience before a license application will be considered. I recognize there is variation between states on licensure laws, but I thought that was a pretty standard expectation. Anyone else have thoughts on this? Can the OP elaborate on whether this was a full clinical license or a masters/"just graduated and working toward clinical" license?

Also, having been a licensure supervisor, and completed required attestations of my supervisees' competency to practice independently, where is your supervisor in all of this? Was s/he under the belief that you had graduated?

 

[apollo2000]

yes, I had a provisional license as I was working towards the hours. Then when I completed the hours, I submitted them to have it transferred to the permanent license. Then I was given a permanent license. As to my supervisor, I don't think they were aware of the situation. They simply supervised me while I was working.

 

[Riomalignant]

Someone posted earlier about considering your clients' points of view on realizing you weren't licensed. I have this to say (for what it's worth): think of your cohorts' perspectives. If the university had not retracted your degree, and come to find in year's time (god forbid) that future unethical things occured, what do you think that would mean for those students who went through the same rigors and demands as you, but because of your mistake, they were inadvertantly maligned?

I feel for you, because this is a tough one to stomach, but I believe you had the responsibility to make the difference between full-blown licensure as a non-masters clinician and not known to the folks at the board.

 

[slinger]

I am gonna play devil's advocate here (since it appears that apollo is the devil). Maybe I got this all wrong, but if apollo contacted the licensing board and their requirement is to complete the 60 hours for it to be converted into a permanent license, I believe that a greater issue would be that the licensing board has inadequate information gathering techniques or are not accurate in their definitions for licensing.

On the other hand, apollo should have been ethical and professional regarding the work position, as communication and professional inquiry are often times the deciding factor in situations like these. I understand the implications of apollo working as a non-graduate, licensed clinician; but if apollo did not falsify any documents or give anyone verbal false information, legally speaking, apollo did nothing wrong.

Since this is a litigious society we live in, I feel you do have grounds to stand on if some of my assumptions are true. If you falsified anything, or told someone something that wasn't true, or you mislead someone, than you really don't have grounds to stand on.

I would get a lawyer, and try to settle this with the school in mediation. Maybe they would let you back in, and work something out with the licensing board as far as a probationary 2 year status or something.

If you were misleading and were intentional in any way, I would find another profession. I would not want you practicing any where near me.

Whew, that was my non-judgemental post for the month.