Advice - SMP or No SMP?

[KCT15]

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Hoping I can get some advice...

I have a 29 MCAT from April '06. I graduated in 2000 with a B.S. in Chem Engineering from U. of Michigan and had an overall and science GPA of ~3.6. I have 6 yrs working exp. in ChemE. I have been taking classes at CCs to fulfill BIO requirements. I was in the middle of a project startup and moving to a new state and job so I did not get my applications in early. Secondaries completed mid/late Oct. I'm limited to Chicago area and so far I've only had rejections...still waiting to hear from 2 more schools. I am trying to come up with a plan to ensure an acceptance at one of the Chicago area schools...

Plan #1: I do not have a lot of volunteer/clinical experience. I have been to many doctors appts and procedures with my daughter. Do nothing other than volunteer more, apply early for '08 class, and play up experiences with my daughter to show that I have "clinical" experience.

Plan #2: Do a SMP starting Fall '07 and apply early for the '08 class. This will be my second time at the Chicago schools and some limit the number of applications to 2. At this point I would not have actually started the SMP. If I don't get in, would I be able to apply a 3rd time and use the SMP as a "drastic improvement" to petition for a 3rd try? Would I need to retake MCAT?

Plan #3: SMP starting Fall '07 but do not apply for '08 med school class. Save my second application at Chicago schools until after SMP is complete or almost complete (apply for class starting in '09). Would I need to retake MCAT?

Thanks!

 

[SweetPeaDaddy]

I can't say anything definitively, but your GPA seems to be sufficient while your MCAT is just a shade below average. It seems that you'd be best served by beefing up your application with some more clinical experience and giving the MCAT another shot. I had a 29 on my first shot and was told not to retake for fear of scoring lower, but if you believe that you can do better I would suggest a retake. In my case I believe retaking the MCAT got me interviews at schools I my not have heard from otherwise. I also did do a Masters Program, but my GPA was much lower than yours.

 

[braluk]

Moving this to the postbac/SMP forum, I will answer this myself once I have a bit more time.

 

[armybound]

I don't think an SMP would be necessary, though it has been a while since you've been in school.

I think the keys to your success may be more clinical experience and a really good personal statement to explain your transfer from industry to medicine.

You may also consider retaking the MCAT, but only if you're consistently doing really well (33+) on the practice tests.

 

[KCT15]

I self-studied for the first MCAT. The hard part was that the material covered on the MCAT was from what I had learned 9 - 10 yrs ago for the most part. I think I could do better but am not 100% confident of this. I would pay the money to take a class. If I did worse...say 27 or 28 the second time around would I have to do some major damage control?

As far as clinical experience the best that I can find for someone like me that works full time and has a family is to volunteer in the ER. However, from previous experience I felt more like a burden on the NCA's and don't think that I will gain much more insight into medicine. I would like to shadow some docs (specialties) but don't know how to do this. I have email a few doctors randomly but got no responses. I'm in the pediatricians office all the time so I don't think that would be a valuable shadow. Any suggestons on types of volunteer work that would look best? And how to get involved in them?

Though an SMP is not necessary, would it improve my application significantly if I maintain a stellar GPA in the program? And of course add in some volunteering. Oh...and I was told by others that my personal statement was pretty good. Talked about my medical experience with my daughter. I'll have to figure a new angle to it for reapplying.

 

[silkworm]

MCAT are good for three to four years, depending on the school. Open up a copy of current-cycle MSAR to check for the school you are interested.

As for volunteer/shadow, have you thought about contacting your family physician or pediatrician to see if he have any possible contacts? Also, large, local universities are bound to have student run medical volunteer groups.

 

[Instatewaiter]

SMP may be a viable option but I am not sure that you need it. If you were to choose to do the SMP and have plenty of time, you may want to wait the extra year after the SMP. This is not going to give you much more of an advantage (if any) but the Adcom will see the second semester grades from the SMP. Seriously though, I do not think that you need the SMP.

As others have said, dont take the MCAT unless you are sure that you can do better. A worse score or even the same score will probably hurt you. A 29 is marginally below the national average so you still have a great shot. A 33 would really help but do you feel it is worth the risk of doing worse?

It seems that your clinical exposure is solely from going to the doctor with your daughter. This doesn't really count. Med schools are looking for students who have more exposure than the average person. Unlike law school or other types of graduate schools, medical schools don't want anyone to drop out or fail. They go to pretty extreme lengths to make sure that you get through (tutors, psych counceling, retaking courses). Clinical experience, tells them that you have explored medicine and this is what you want to do. It helps to ensure that they will have a low attrition rate.

From the limited knowledge I have of your app, to me it seems like the weak point is the lack of major clinical exposure. Some schools will not even consider candidates that have little clinical exposure.

Some options for clinical experience are:
volunteering at a hospital- they let you do almost nothing
volunteering at an ER- again there is very little you can do, but it will probably be more interesting

Volunteering at a free clinic- these are all over the place and tend to let you do a whole lot more

Shadowing docs- can be tough to find docs. The more specialties you can do the better. Shadowing the pediatrician will give you more 'credit' than just seeing him with your daughter and he may know some people who will allow you to shadow them.

EMT- takes a long time to get certified but looks really good.


Honestly the best way to find out where your weaknesses lie is to contact the admissions committe or dean of admissions. Some schools even allow you to set up meetings with the dean. They will be able to point out the weaknesses and tell you exactly what to do to get in next year.

 

[KCT15]

Thanks to all for providing helpful and supportive advice...

As far as clinical exposure goes I would argue that I have been exposed more than the typical hospital volunteer. Just my opinion...based on what I've seen with my daughter and what I've seen through volunteering in the ER. I've been there when they spent 3 hrs trying to start an IV on her, multiple MRI's, ultrasounds, echocardiograms, arterial sticks, x-rays, seen many specialists, catheters, chronic respiratory problems, and more. I think I did a very poor job at selling this point in my applications this year.

I guess I'll have to try harder to find some good clinical experience. I was thinking of getting certified as a CNA and then volunteering so that maybe I could be more hands on because I like that kind of stuff.

If the SMP won't really give me the advantage that I need to get in then I won't give up my day job as an engineer just yet! Because it won't be long before I go from having plenty of money to NO MONEY!

 

[MedStudentWanna]

As far as clinical exposure goes I would argue that I have been exposed more than the typical hospital volunteer. Just my opinion...based on what I've seen with my daughter and what I've seen through volunteering in the ER. I've been there when they spent 3 hrs trying to start an IV on her, multiple MRI's, ultrasounds, echocardiograms, arterial sticks, x-rays, seen many specialists, catheters, chronic respiratory problems, and more. I think I did a very poor job at selling this point in my applications this year.

The problem is, you saw all of that as a MOTHER, not as a potential physician. There's a huge difference. The reason they want you to have clinical exposure isn't so you can see procedures. It's so that you'll be exposed to PATIENTS. They specifically look for patient contact on your application and since your only patient contact seems to be your daughter, it doesn't count.

They want to know that during 3rd year rotations, you won't freak out the first time a drunk, smelly prostitute comes waltzing in to the ER, that you won't pass out the first time a gun shot victim is bleeding to death, that you won't stay away from room 322 because the patient inside smells worse than anyone you've ever met before, that you can handle it when a homeless man is brought in to the ER after being beaten to a pulp by teenagers.

The way to get this is to volunteer. If you feel like you're a burden at the ER, volunteer at a free clinic in town. They will appreciate the help and they'll give you stuff to do. Before long, they may even let you help with bandaging people up, taking vitals, stuff like that. THAT'S the kind of experience med schools want to see.

 

[Maxprime]

+1 to the need for actual clinical experience.

As for next year, a few things.

1) If I'm reading the original post correctly, you already applied & didn't get in. I'd call around and ask why you didn't get in anywhere. Fixing that part of your app should be priority #1 - and clinical experience is probably what they're dwelling on.

2) You have lots of time to take the MCAT again. A 29 is not a bad score, but if you have time to study & try it again - I would really work to improve that score.

3) SMP's are generally for low GPA candidates. Your GPA is great - no need to work on it in a post-bacc. Your GPA + a solid MCAT score + clinical experience makes you a very strong candidate.

4) You have other options - how about research? This comes down to where you are in your life (finance mostly). You have a kid - so I don't know what's possible for you. A research job would cost less and still provide some income as well as improve that part of your app (try to get into clinical research). You could also do EMT, phlobotomist (sp?), medical assistant, etc. That provides some income + clinical experience - check out all your options.

An SMP will definitely not hurt you, but it may not be worth the time & expense. The ADCOMS know you can do well in an academic environment - what does an SMP prove to them? I'd work on bumping the MCAT up a few points, getting more clinical experience, and trying to get some research.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

An SMP will definitely not hurt you, but it may not be worth the time & expense.

I'd argue that an SMP CAN hurt you, as an adcom posted in pre-allo today (check the Florida thread). If you do an SMP and don't do well (higher than a 3.5), you've shot yourself in the foot and you may have destroyed your chances of ever getting into med school.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I'd argue that an SMP CAN hurt you, as an adcom posted in pre-allo today (check the Florida thread). If you do an SMP and don't do well (higher than a 3.5), you've shot yourself in the foot and you may have destroyed your chances of ever getting into med school.

I can definitely attest to this. I have a lot of friends from the program I did last year who had pretty good grades from Ugrad and >30 MCAT and only got a little over a 3.0 in the SMP. They did not get in last year and this year they have to compete with all the kids that got a 4.0 (and again won't get in)

So even though before the program they might have been borderline candidates now, after doing so-so in the SMP they have become very poor candidates.

 

[Maxprime]

Didn't even consider that - VERY good point. Thanks for creating a list of future panic attacks to any SMP student. 🙂