Advice would be appreciated...

[tulip24]

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I recently applied to DO medical schools. I intended to apply to both DO and MD programs, however, for personal reasons, I was unable to apply to medical schools until after the MD cycle deadlines. Therefore, I only applied to DO programs. I applied late (very recent), however, I called the schools in advance to make sure it was still acceptable to apply at this time. I have received a positive response from programs thus far.

I have interest in both program types and I am unsure which program I would like to attend if I am blessed with the opportunity to choose which school I would like to attend. I am not sure if I should preclude myself from entering MD programs if I am still unsure which theory I prefer.

Should I continue to purse the application cycle and learn more about the schools or should I withdraw my applications for admission then reapply when I am in a position where I can assess both program types and then make an educated decision?

Buying a medical education is as expensive as buying a house, so I want to make sure I obtain the best fit and matriculate at the best time to optimize my success.


Advice would be appreciated from current physicians and/or medical students.

Thank you.

 

[LoveTheRunner]

if you hadn't done the research, why did you apply in the first place? it seems like you are just taking a shot in the dark... "guess i'd like to try to go to med school this year" kinda thing

 

[tulip24]

if you hadn't done the research, why did you apply in the first place? it seems like you are just taking a shot in the dark... "guess i'd like to try to go to med school this year" kinda thing

I had a bad car accident with multiple fractures and identity theft/ fraud within 2 consecutive years-- both of which prevented me from being able to apply. I applied late because I was unable to walk, however, fortunately, I recovered faster than anticipated and was able to meet the DO deadlines which are slightly after the MD deadlines.

My MCAT expires this year. Worried that something else might happen and prevent me from having the energy to work full time while studying for the MCAT again, I decided I would rather be ANY type of physician than to not be a physician at all.

The reason I applied to osteopathic programs was that I have spoken with a lot of D.O.'s and seen D.O.'s personally who I felt had much better clinical skills than their M.D. counterparts.

Lately, however, a lot of physicians I work with have been making me question my decision to only apply to D.O. programs because my interests in medicine are very research oriented and I wish to pursue international work as well.

Soo, I have seen some people be helpful on these forums and I decided to seek constructive advice from SDN 🙂!

 

[latrala2300]

I had a bad car accident with multiple fractures and identity theft/ fraud within 2 consecutive years-- both of which prevented me from being able to apply. I applied late because I was unable to walk, however, fortunately, I recovered faster than anticipated and was able to meet the DO deadlines which are slightly after the MD deadlines.

My MCAT expires this year. Worried that something else might happen and prevent me from having the energy to work full time while studying for the MCAT again, I decided I would rather be ANY type of physician than to not be a physician at all.

The reason I applied to osteopathic programs was that I have spoken with a lot of D.O.'s and seen D.O.'s personally who I felt had much better clinical skills than their M.D. counterparts.

Lately, however, a lot of physicians I work with have been making me question my decision to only apply to D.O. programs because my interests in medicine are very research oriented and I wish to pursue international work as well.

Soo, I have seen some people be helpful on these forums and I decided to seek constructive advice from SDN 🙂!

In the grand scheme of things, a year is little to lose for having the training you truly want. If your finances are in order and you can submit a stronger application next year than you did this cycle, I would apply to MD programs. Have you shadowed DOs and MDs to gain deeper insight into what they do?

 

[LizzyM]

It you have what it takes intellectually, having a DO rather than an MD will not preclude you from doing a research fellowship and obtaining a faculty appointment at an allopathic school.

If this is your last chance before your MCAT expires, you have to go for it as your chances may be worse, not better, next year depending on how you do with a second MCAT.

 

[tulip24]

Have you shadowed DOs and MDs to gain deeper insight into what they do?

Yes.

If this is your last chance before your MCAT expires, you have to go for it as your chances may be worse, not better, next year depending on how you do with a second MCAT.

This is true.

 

[Therecanbeonlyo]

This is my opinion ... especially looking at where you're going to be come your 4th year and applying to residency. If you are a DO you are fighting an uphill/futile battle for certain specialties. For example, I'm in orthopaedics, and over the past 5 years there have been less than 5 DO students per cycle (out of ~680) that have matched into the orthopaedic programs. Now, whether this stigma is deserved or not is not up for debate but it exists when applying for residency so, in some ways, you are crippling yourself by going to DO school. That being said, there are DO residency programs that exist too which I am not familar with.

Also, there is an argument that by going to DO school you learn the osteopathic techniques such as OMM, etc. I have a few friends that are in DO school and have told me that they do not know anyone who actually uses these in practice regardless of what kind of doc they are. Additionally, the argument that "DO's are more wholistic than MD's"... Well, anyone in MD school can attest that we are all taught to be wholistic and that we have to treat the whole patient etc, so I don't know where this really comes from.

Let me clarify so that I am not misunderstood here. I do not think that being an MD versus a DO will make you a better doctor down the road. There are bad MD's and bad DO's...type of medical school does not breed this. There is a stigma when it comes to applying to residency that MD's are "better" than DO's, and this is based on the program you apply to and the type of residency you're applying for. The basis behind it isn't exactly rocket science either...it's more difficult, numbers wise, to be accepted to a MD school as opposed to a DO school...

As someone else said...in the scheme of things, 1 year really isn't going to make a difference and this is the foundation for your entire working life...
Personally, I wouldn't "settle" (as it seems based on your intial post of wanting to apply for both) for DO school out of fear of having to repeat the MCAT etc.

If you do choose (which I would recommend) to withdraw this year and reapply next year, I would look long and hard about the DO track. Though there are people who only have a desire to go to DO school, a high percentage of people in DO school are there because the could not get into MD school. Also, MD students perform better on the USMLE/Board exams as compared to the DO counterparts, and have higher first time pass rates etc --> USMLE step 1 94% pass rate for MD, 81% for DO. For the residency stats http://www.nrmp.org/data/index.html

PM me if you have more questions

 

[Barcu]

I had a bad car accident with multiple fractures and identity theft/ fraud within 2 consecutive years-- both of which prevented me from being able to apply. I applied late because I was unable to walk, however, fortunately, I recovered faster than anticipated and was able to meet the DO deadlines which are slightly after the MD deadlines.

My MCAT expires this year. Worried that something else might happen and prevent me from having the energy to work full time while studying for the MCAT again, I decided I would rather be ANY type of physician than to not be a physician at all.

The reason I applied to osteopathic programs was that I have spoken with a lot of D.O.'s and seen D.O.'s personally who I felt had much better clinical skills than their M.D. counterparts.

Lately, however, a lot of physicians I work with have been making me question my decision to only apply to D.O. programs because my interests in medicine are very research oriented and I wish to pursue international work as well.

Soo, I have seen some people be helpful on these forums and I decided to seek constructive advice from SDN 🙂!

Both of these goals are harder to achieve as a DO.

You may want to wait until next year.

 

[LizzyM]

The gamble you are asking this guy to make is to give up any possibility of starting DO school in 2011 in exchange for the possibility that he will be rejected by all MD and DO schools in 2012. Would you give up a chance to start medical school in 2011 for what's behind door number 2 where that might be an empty box?

Allopathic students have better pass rate on Step 1, etc because, as a group, they are better test takers (based on undergrad performance and MCAT scores) than osteopathic students as a group. How well a given student will do on those exams is unlikely to be related to whether the student obtains medical education in an allopathic or osteopathic school? Do you understand that logic?

 

[tulip24]

Thank you for everyone's advice, I appreciate it.

I understand from my discussions with DO and MD physicians that if you would like the option to pursue ACGME residencies as well as AOA residencies, it is a lot more work down the road to complete both the COMLEX and USMLE series.

It seems that a DO physician would have to put in twice the amount of work to pursue the same residency training as an MD. Please clarify this if I'm mistaken.

Thank you.

 

[Barcu]

Thank you for everyone's advice, I appreciate it.

I understand from my discussions with DO and MD physicians that if you would like the option to pursue ACGME residencies as well as AOA residencies, it is a lot more work down the road to complete both the COMLEX and USMLE series.

It seems that a DO physician would have to put in twice the amount of work to pursue the same residency training as an MD. Please clarify this if I'm mistaken.

Thank you.

This is not true.

However, LizzyM please comment on this too, I was under the impression that DO makes it harder to do research and to work abroad, which are two of the OPs stated goals.

I know many "obstacles" we see as premeds about the DO path can be overcome. In terms of research, MD schools do more, but you can still find some at DO schools.

My concern was with the international work. I have heard mixed things about recognizing DOs abroad. How easy is this to overcome? I may just be misinformed.

 

[LizzyM]

I don't know anything about how a physician licensed in the US can practice abroad.

I do know a DO who did a research fellowship at a top 20 med school, affiliated with a big lab at another top school, published in Science, and now has his own lab at an allopathic med school. N of 1 but it can be done if you have the intellectual horsepower to get it done.

 

[LoveTheRunner]

N of 1 but it can be done if you have the intellectual horsepower to get it done.

Isn't that sort of the end of discussion point though? It might be possible, but if OP is interested in a career in academic med. then MD has long been the path for this career. Even taking his/her chance at a second MCAT or application cycle, wouldn't that greatly outweigh the benefits of attempting to do the route you describe? DO and MD certainly have closed the gap, but academic med. remains the single greatest discrepancy between the two...

Also to OP, I recall a thread a few months ago that actually talked about where DO's are recognized if you felt like doing a search. I couldn't find it after a brief look through but i'm pretty sure it was this site

 

[LizzyM]

OK. OP can drop DO applications and hope to get a good score on the MCAT retake and get into an MD school next year and hope that if an MD offer doesn't come through that a DO offer will come through. The OP should know that the chances of being admitted to an MD program are less than 50-50 (maybe higher or lower depending on gpa and MCAT and other factors).

Or the OP could go forth with this admission cycle to DO schools only and make a decision if an offer comes along.

 

[Therecanbeonlyo]

Isn't that sort of the end of discussion point though? It might be possible, but if OP is interested in a career in academic med. then MD has long been the path for this career.

I think this hits the nail on the head. If you look all over the SDN website you have a lot of pre-medical students that are constantly at war trying to say that DO is no different than MD. The bottom line is, that this isn't true. Whether it's right or not is a different issue, but the bottom line is they are not viewed as the same.

And what LizzyM mentioned about the USMLE is kind of pointing that out. Because that is the average, the whole group gets that stereotype to the point where if you are applying for a residency, and a MD and DO student have identical stats/numbers, etc, the MD student has the edge in the NRMP/ACGME match. The match rate for MD students is ~93-94%, and it's ~68-71% for DO's in the NRMP (since 2006). Now, DO's have the AOA match as well which MD students do not participate in, but the numbers still exist. I have not been able to find the match statistics in as great a detail for the DO match as to what percentage of people match, etc.

Not trying to start a heated debate, I just wanted to make sure people saw the statistics

If you're curious to where I'm getting these numbers http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf page 17.

 

[Catalystik]

My concern was with the international work. I have heard mixed things about recognizing DOs abroad.

DO international practice rights: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=107627

 

[Total180]

I read a lot of the comments, but maybe not all of them, but has the OP even posted his/her stats? Most people are advising them to wait until next year to hope for MD, but what if their GPA is low and/or their MCAT is low (and they would now have to retake it). If that is the case, it would definitely be a better deal to apply DO and see what happens. If you have to reapply, then start studying for the MCAT and make a decision when you get the scores whether you want to apply strictly MD, strictly DO, or to both.

 

[oar2386]

I think this hits the nail on the head. If you look all over the SDN website you have a lot of pre-medical students that are constantly at war trying to say that DO is no different than MD. The bottom line is, that this isn't true. Whether it's right or not is a different issue, but the bottom line is they are not viewed as the same.

And what LizzyM mentioned about the USMLE is kind of pointing that out. Because that is the average, the whole group gets that stereotype to the point where if you are applying for a residency, and a MD and DO student have identical stats/numbers, etc, the MD student has the edge in the NRMP/ACGME match. The match rate for MD students is ~93-94%, and it's ~68-71% for DO's in the NRMP (since 2006). Now, DO's have the AOA match as well which MD students do not participate in, but the numbers still exist. I have not been able to find the match statistics in as great a detail for the DO match as to what percentage of people match, etc.

Not trying to start a heated debate, I just wanted to make sure people saw the statistics

If you're curious to where I'm getting these numbers http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf page 17.

These "statistics" are a little misleading for several reasons:
1) Not all DOs try to get into an MD residency
2) The AOA match is before the ACGME. If you are accepted into one of these, you are forced to attend and cannot participate in the ACGME.
3) I don't think those numbers account for the scramble but i am not sure


The bottom line is if you want to pursue academic medicine, then absolutely chose MD over DO because it will be easier for you. It's not impossible as a DO, just easier as a MD.

 

[gettheleadout]

Ugh this is going to turn into another MD vs. DO debate...