Advise needed from aPD /attending /resident or any kind soul

[bluedr]

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[NotAProgDirector]

Sounds like you have done all you can. ONly can wait and see what happens.

Not to burst your bubble, but your Step scores are not "average". Average Step 1 is around 220, and Step 2 is higher. All of your steps are quite low, with a trend towards a decrease. Long hours in the lab is not an excuse -- medical students spend long hours on rotations / call / weekends / etc and are held to the same standards. I mention it not to berate you, but simply so you don't try to use this as an excuse in your PS.

 

[jackieMD2007]

Your best chance is at the university where you have been working.

Those boards scores are going to hurt and I have read on a lot of websites about some programs that don't sponsor visas--yikes.

Good luck to you in the match--you never know.

 

[bluedr]

Sounds like you have done all you can. ONly can wait and see what happens.

Not to burst your bubble, but your Step scores are not "average". Average Step 1 is around 220, and Step 2 is higher. All of your steps are quite low, with a trend towards a decrease. Long hours in the lab is not an excuse -- medical students spend long hours on rotations / call / weekends / etc and are held to the same standards. I mention it not to berate you, but simply so you don't try to use this as an excuse in your PS.

Thank you for your reply aPD.

There a couple of other very personal reasons to my board scores. I have not mentioned about my board scores in my personal statement.With these low scores and after trying all this, is there anything else that I can do now to improve my application. Should I even try applying next year or change my career options? A honest feed back will help me.

Regards,
S

 

[gutonc]

There a couple of other very personal reasons to my board scores.

Stop, stop, stop! Nobody cares. If you had extenuating circumstances, you should have postponed taking the exams. Unless a bomb went off under your chair every time you took a USMLE exam but you decided to finish the test anyway, nobody will pay attention to any excuse you give and will likely interpret any explanation as an inability to take responsibility for your results.

You're in a tough spot WRT board scores...your Step 1 score kind of sucks and it only got worse from there (as the clinical relevance of the exams increased). The good news is you passed them all (eventually) so you've got that going for you. The time since graduation is also a big problem (almost 10 years). There's not really anything you can do about your app at this point. Your scores are what they are and your history is what it is. I assume you applied broadly (>100 programs, preferably 200...no complaints about how much this costs, you're either in this to get a spot or you should just quit now) and will just have to wait and see what happens. If you don't match this year, you'll really need to give a lot of thought to whether it's worth applying next year or just moving on (research or other non-clinical career or returning home to practice).

 

[bluedr]

Stop, stop, stop! Nobody cares. If you had extenuating circumstances, you should have postponed taking the exams. Unless a bomb went off under your chair every time you took a USMLE exam but you decided to finish the test anyway, nobody will pay attention to any excuse you give and will likely interpret any explanation as an inability to take responsibility for your results.

You're in a tough spot WRT board scores...your Step 1 score kind of sucks and it only got worse from there (as the clinical relevance of the exams increased). The good news is you passed them all (eventually) so you've got that going for you. The time since graduation is also a big problem (almost 10 years). There's not really anything you can do about your app at this point. Your scores are what they are and your history is what it is. I assume you applied broadly (>100 programs, preferably 200...no complaints about how much this costs, you're either in this to get a spot or you should just quit now) and will just have to wait and see what happens. If you don't match this year, you'll really need to give a lot of thought to whether it's worth applying next year or just moving on (research or other non-clinical career or returning home to practice).

Thanks a lot !

I clearly understand that Nobody cares,which is very true! Hence have not even mentioned any of my problems. I am being realistic and want to move ahead.I am at a point making future plans for my career and move in life. All these comments help me decide.

 

[Rep]

Stop, stop, stop! Nobody cares. If you had extenuating circumstances, you should have postponed taking the exams. Unless a bomb went off under your chair every time you took a USMLE exam but you decided to finish the test anyway, nobody will pay attention to any excuse you give and will likely interpret any explanation as an inability to take responsibility for your results.

You're in a tough spot WRT board scores...your Step 1 score kind of sucks and it only got worse from there (as the clinical relevance of the exams increased). The good news is you passed them all (eventually) so you've got that going for you. The time since graduation is also a big problem (almost 10 years). There's not really anything you can do about your app at this point. Your scores are what they are and your history is what it is. I assume you applied broadly (>100 programs, preferably 200...no complaints about how much this costs, you're either in this to get a spot or you should just quit now) and will just have to wait and see what happens. If you don't match this year, you'll really need to give a lot of thought to whether it's worth applying next year or just moving on (research or other non-clinical career or returning home to practice).

To the OP, this is the kind of elitist snobbery you have to deal with.
Sorry, to burst your bubble but there can be extenuating circumstances. The fact that you can't visualize or comprehend them doesn't make them non-existent and not everybody in the world earns by American standards to simply throw 800$ down the drain with a no show.
I have a similar problem with my application, but failed in step 1. The fact that my failure was related to extenuating circumstances, is further bolstered by my subsequent good performance(255+ in both steps). The programs don't care, the fact that I failed is enough for them to simply put my app in the bin. I haven't got a single interview till now even after a one and a half month of applying(IM not something highly competitive). Well, I guess it is their prerogative, nothing you can do about that.

 

[jackieMD2007]

To the OP, this is the kind of elitist snobbery you have to deal with.
Sorry, to burst your bubble but there can be extenuating circumstances. The fact that you can't visualize or comprehend them doesn't make them non-existent and not everybody in the world earns by American standards to simply throw 800$ down the drain with a no show.
I have a similar problem with my application, but failed in step 1. The fact that my failure was related to extenuating circumstances, is further bolstered by my subsequent good performance(255+ in both steps). The programs don't care, the fact that I failed is enough for them to simply put my app in the bin.

How is it elitist snobbery to have standards? 🙄 Failing Step 1 is a big problem. If I was a program director I would put someone who failed (or scored <210 ) Step 1 way last on my list (if at all) because there are plenty of candidates who did not fail Step 1 or score poorly! If you want to compete with US Medical Grads then at the very least you need to score well on our exam. No excuses. Plenty of medical students have life issues and difficult things happen during medical school too. Life happens for all of us. Put up or shut up.

Your financial argument makes no sense--if the situation was dire enough to affect your test taking, it is WORTH IT to postpone the test, and pay another $800! (Think about the long term investment involved in being an MD--why would you risk your entire career for $800 after all of the expense you already put in?)

 

[JelloBrain]

I thought I will chime in my 2 cents worth as well, especially given that the OP seems to have no sympathizers.

aPD, you said that "Long hours in the lab is not an excuse -- medical students spend long hours on rotations / call / weekends / etc and are held to the same standards." But that is a medical student's job-to learn basic science (initially, then clinical stuff) and do well on tests, they have no other job or priorities. However if someone is working, whether as a physician in their own country or as a researcher in a lab anywhere, their priorities are different. They have to take into consideration deadlines, meetings, grant stuff, collaborations, presentations, etc., leaving not a lot of time to study. Not many bosses/PIs would be sympathetic if someone is studying towards tests instead of working with their full attention.

jackieMD2007 says-"If I was a program director I would put someone who failed (or scored <210 ) Step 1 way last on my list (if at all) because there are plenty of candidates who did not fail Step 1 or score poorly!" Yes, that is the attitude of PDs everywhere that medical students/graduates have been reduced to a number on a pointless test (Step-1). The reason I say it is pointless is someone who can cram useless data and vomit it out may not necessarily make a better doctor than someone who cannot vomit with the same capability.

If I had a medical emergency, I would rather have a doctor who knows what to do to save me than someone who knows the rate limiting step of some reaction or knows how DNA replicates! Seriously, when was the last time any doctor in any field actually thought to ponder these minutiae while treating their patients? I never did till I recently started looking into Step-1 stuff-and I have managed to save many a lives, sometimes with barely any resources available to me. jackieMD2007, you will see that in your medical life and practice too once you start your residency, unless you go into medical genetics or some such stuff.

A test based predominantly on biochemistry/molecular genetics can never gauge someone's capability as a physician. I feel Step-2 CK/CS is a better marker of someone's capability as a physician rather than Step-1 which should be a Pass/Fail exam. And as with all things, previous success in completing/mastering a clinical and/or research field will at least show a pattern for future (for those in whom it is applicable).

jackieMD2007-I do agree with the "put up or shut up" quote. However when one has put up, and proven oneself, then the opportunities should be the same for everyone.

OP, I do sympathize with your situation, but I think you could/should have postponed your exams. Regardless what's been done can't be undone-Life happens, like jackieMD2007 says; for some life's deals are worse than others. Just hope for the best and cast as wide a geographic net as possible.

Disclaimer-I hate biochemistry with a passion, 🙁-have postponed Step-1 4 times now as I feel knowing that stuff will not in any way add to my capability as a surgeon, so can't bring myself to memorize it (and I have a photographic memory) just for a 250 + score. Step-2 CK/CS was a breeze, I sailed through both with no resources (didn't know of SDN and/or FA or whatever then).

 

[Rep]

How is it elitist snobbery to have standards? 🙄 Failing Step 1 is a big problem. If I was a program director I would put someone who failed (or scored <210 ) Step 1 way last on my list (if at all) because there are plenty of candidates who did not fail Step 1 or score poorly! If you want to compete with US Medical Grads then at the very least you need to score well on our exam. No excuses. Plenty of medical students have life issues and difficult things happen during medical school too. Life happens for all of us. Put up or shut up.

Your financial argument makes no sense--if the situation was dire enough to affect your test taking, it is WORTH IT to postpone the test, and pay another $800! (Think about the long term investment involved in being an MD--why would you risk your entire career for $800 after all of the expense you already put in?)

First of all, tone down, all your posts on the board are laced with condescension, you aren't god's gift to medicine howsoever you might think.
Secondly, work on your reading comprehension and read my post very very carefully especially the last line.
Thirdly, to discount somebody's whole career before and after, just simply based on one test is ludicrous at best. The main point, I was addressing was the poster's complete negation of any extraneous circumstances being the problem for a poor performance on the test.
At the end of the day, we are all human beings who make mistakes and to have the attitude that somebody needs to be crucified because of one or two mistakes he made, even though he may have shown his ability for subsequent remediation(this being very important) just says it all basically.

 

[bluedr]

This is an open forum with an open ended question. I appreciate the replies. All I am trying to figure out whether it is worth going further with these credentials. I am applying to a professional job where my personal life doesn’t matter to selection committee.

I can clearly understand Program directors' difficulties in selecting a candidate with so many applicants to few seats. The only way they can decide is through scores and standardized test. Don’t believe that is the optimum way, but for the present moment that is the best method of analysis handed to them. That’s my personal experience working as a physician in my home country.

I am open to all constructive criticism, but that doesn't mean I am going to accept them. I am just trying to understand different mindsets before/through this journey. I have over come a lot of my own difficulties in life and this is another event.

Thank you all for replying. Seems like there is a lot of negative emotions and before it gets worse I plan to end this thread. Regards.

 

[jackieMD2007]

This is an open forum with an open ended question. I appreciate the replies. All I am trying to figure out whether it is worth going further with these credentials. I am applying to a professional job where my personal life doesn’t matter to selection committee.

I can clearly understand Program directors' difficulties in selecting a candidate with so many applicants to few seats. The only way they can decide is through scores and standardized test. Don’t believe that is the optimum way, but for the present moment that is the best method of analysis handed to them. That’s my personal experience working as a physician in my home country.

I am open to all constructive criticism, but that doesn't mean I am going to accept them. I am just trying to understand different mindsets before/through this journey. I have over come a lot of my own difficulties in life and this is another event.

Thank you all for replying. Seems like there is a lot of negative emotions and before it gets worse I plan to end this thread. Regards.

I think you've got the right attitude and I certainly do wish you the best. I wish that there were more seats and it wasn't so competitive.

I agree that from one standpoint it is awful (and dehumanizing) to "rank" people based upon one test day's score...frankly, though it is not that difficult of an exam and so if you are able to do more complicated things like be a great clinician (which, admittedly after just one year of being a third year is not really the outcome for us!)...you should be able to pass an exam. Or two. Or three. That being said, stuff does happen, and it sucks...and as we all know, life is not fair.

That is not "condescension" that is just the way it is.

 

[Luv2Cut]

I really don't think jackieMD2007 is being condescending. As she stated, "that is just the way that it is," is TRUE.

It doesn't really matter if we think that memorizing useless information that won't help us in practice is important or not. The truth is that is another hoop to jump through. So just jump through this hoop so you can get to the next level.

Just knuckle down and do what you got to do.