Advisor claims I'll have a harder time specializing if I go DO... wtf?

[yasminj]

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Hi all. I know variations on this question have been asked before, but I was recently told something by my pre-med advisor that made me worried. I know that DOs can specialize outside of primary care, my question is specifically, do DO students have a harder time getting into these specialties than MDs?

I am applying to DO and MD programs this year and am currently interested in oncology (hem/onc, not radiation), immunology, and dermatology. Derm is probably my 3rd choice right now, onc and immunology are tied for me. Obviously, what I think is interesting now may very well change over the course of medical school, but I'm concerned about all sorts of things I'm hearing regarding competitiveness for these sorts of residencies for DOs.

1) If I were to go to a DO program, would it be more difficult for me to get into one of these specialties?

2) Are there fewer DO residencies for these specialties than MD residencies? If I were to purse one of these fields would it be necessary for me to apply to MD residencies?

3) Is there an advantage/ disadvantage to completing a DO residency vs an MD residency?

4) Are DOs "discriminated against" by medical community still? I really thought the answer to this was no... but it totally seems like my advisor is being discriminatory so now I'm concerned.

Bottom line is, I want to be a doctor and preferably, I'd like to not be too limited in specialty, wherever I go. (I should note, I have zero interest in surgery.) There are plenty of attractive things about DO programs and MD programs alike and I think that being a successful doctor will have more to do with me and the work I put in than which letters are after my name. But I do want to make sure that I'm not shooting myself in the foot by "limiting my options" as my pre-med advisor says I am by applying DO.

I don't want to believe this is true... but it's scary when your advisor says it! Help please!

 

[deleted127837]

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[calvnandhobbs68]

It won't be any more difficult for you than other DOs to match into the osteopathic programs but there are fewer osteopathic specialty programs. However the difference between heme/onc and immunology (which are IM subspecialties) and something like derm (own track with a prelim year) is totally different. You just have to score a good IM spot and work from there to get into a fellowship if you're interested in that.

It will be more difficult to match into the allopathic programs.

There isn't a disadvantage practice-wise between the programs (at least that's what I've heard). You're still just as much of a oncologist or dermatologist as a DO.

 

[music2doc]

Hi all. I know variations on this question have been asked before, but I was recently told something by my pre-med advisor that made me worried. I know that DOs can specialize outside of primary care, my question is specifically, do DO students have a harder time getting into these specialties than MDs?

I am applying to DO and MD programs this year and am currently interested in oncology (hem/onc, not radiation), immunology, and dermatology. Derm is probably my 3rd choice right now, onc and immunology are tied for me. Obviously, what I think is interesting now may very well change over the course of medical school, but I'm concerned about all sorts of things I'm hearing regarding competitiveness for these sorts of residencies for DOs.

1) If I were to go to a DO program, would it be more difficult for me to get into one of these specialties?

Yes... DO programs have a lower match rate overall (about 80% vs 94%) and they tend to place more frequently in primary care specialties. A competitive residency is significantly less likely, although certainly not unattainable.

2) Are there fewer DO residencies for these specialties than MD residencies? If I were to purse one of these fields would it be necessary for me to apply to MD residencies?

Yes... and, theoretically, probably not. There are [almost certainly] osteopathic residencies in each of those specialties; however, there are not likely to be enough spots for nearly the number of people applying as there are far more MD than DO residencies out there and there are not enough DO residencies overall to go around to all DO students (vs. more than enough MD residency slots for US MD students). As a result, to have any real chance, you'd have to apply to MD residencies as well as DO.

3) Is there an advantage/ disadvantage to completing a DO residency vs an MD residency?

The DO residency is exclusive to DO grads. This is really the only advantage other than the emphasis on the supposed "DO philosophy" (whatever the heck that means). Generally, DO residencies are less desirable than MD residencies overall.

4) Are DOs "discriminated against" by medical community still? I really thought the answer to this was no... but it totally seems like my advisor is being discriminatory so now I'm concerned.

Yes and no. The healthcare industry and medical communities will not actively discriminate. You may, however, get some less than optimal treatment by patients who do not know what a DO is (and, for instance, ask for "a real doctor).

Bottom line is, I want to be a doctor and preferably, I'd like to not be too limited in specialty, wherever I go. (I should note, I have zero interest in surgery.) There are plenty of attractive things about DO programs and MD programs alike and I think that being a successful doctor will have more to do with me and the work I put in than which letters are after my name. But I do want to make sure that I'm not shooting myself in the foot by "limiting my options" as my pre-med advisor says I am by applying DO.

I don't want to believe this is true... but it's scary when your advisor says it! Help please!

Well, why would you apply DO? Stats? Philosophy?

 

[gettheleadout]

People more experienced than I can comment on the differences between AOA (DO) and ACGME (MD) residency programs, but I'd be willing to bet that you'd be at a disadvantage matching derm as a DO. Yes, the USMLE is the same whether an MD, DO, or IMG takes it, but the numbers of DO match applicants entering these more-competitive specialties do not suggest an "even" playing field.

That said, I want to address your fourth question. Your advisor is not a member of the medical community nor is she discriminating. Her portrayal of the differences in career potential between MD's and DO's is not the discrimination against and stigma placed upon DO's that have historically been enough of a problem for people to take notice. Practicing physicians here, both in and out of academia, will tell you that in practice there is no difference in physician competence, job prospects, or success based on the degree earned. Is any given top notch residency program going to harbor bias against DO applicants? Possibly. There isn't a definitive way to know that.

You're concerned about possibly shooting yourself in the foot by going DO? Ways in which this would be true: Different school model (less funding/opportunities for research), two sets of standardized exams to take instead of one (both COMLEX and USMLE instead of just the latter), learning and being tested on (both school exams and COMLEX) OMM, including "medicine" like cranial OMM which is universally regarded as BS, possible difficulty matching competitive specialties (surgical and otherwise), possible discrimination from older physicians, possible discrimination (sort of) from patients (though unlikely), etc...

If you have the stats, go MD, unless you have a very compelling reason to choose DO (not philosophy; it doesn't translate into modern practice) such as geographic limitation (you have to stay with your family or something) or cost (the only MD acceptance is some huge sum more after considering financial aid packages) or something.

 

[davidbm95]

Hi all. I know variations on this question have been asked before, but I was recently told something by my pre-med advisor that made me worried. I know that DOs can specialize outside of primary care, my question is specifically, do DO students have a harder time getting into these specialties than MDs?

I am applying to DO and MD programs this year and am currently interested in oncology (hem/onc, not radiation), immunology, and dermatology. Derm is probably my 3rd choice right now, onc and immunology are tied for me. Obviously, what I think is interesting now may very well change over the course of medical school, but I'm concerned about all sorts of things I'm hearing regarding competitiveness for these sorts of residencies for DOs.

1) If I were to go to a DO program, would it be more difficult for me to get into one of these specialties?

2) Are there fewer DO residencies for these specialties than MD residencies? If I were to purse one of these fields would it be necessary for me to apply to MD residencies?

3) Is there an advantage/ disadvantage to completing a DO residency vs an MD residency?

4) Are DOs "discriminated against" by medical community still? I really thought the answer to this was no... but it totally seems like my advisor is being discriminatory so now I'm concerned.

Bottom line is, I want to be a doctor and preferably, I'd like to not be too limited in specialty, wherever I go. (I should note, I have zero interest in surgery.) There are plenty of attractive things about DO programs and MD programs alike and I think that being a successful doctor will have more to do with me and the work I put in than which letters are after my name. But I do want to make sure that I'm not shooting myself in the foot by "limiting my options" as my pre-med advisor says I am by applying DO.

I don't want to believe this is true... but it's scary when your advisor says it! Help please!

1) A lot of specialties can be more competitive for a DO than an MD... but these usually include surgical specialties. I think for the list you compiled, you should be fine but you will still have to appear more competitive. If you were choosing specialties such as general surgery, plastic surgery than you would have some trouble but for things like immunology and oncology I suspect you should be fine.

2) I am not sure how the process works for DO's applying to MD residencies if you are even allowed to but If you ask those DO specific questions in the DO sections of SDN you should get better answers. It seems logical though that there would be fewer specialty residencies only because most DO's go into primary care.

3) I think the only real advantage of becoming a DO over an MD is if you actually want to practice osteopathic medicine than having a DO would be the most appropriate. Do some research on osteopathic medicine maybe you'll like the ideas of it. Other than that there are a few disadvantages to doing a DO residency over an MD residency that can be found here: http://surgery.about.com/od/questionsanswers/qt/DOversusMD.htm

4) I think yes they are discriminated against but it appears less every year. DO's are seen as that they weren't able to get an MD so they got a DO. I guess that statement can be argued in many ways but it can be true on some occasions. I don't think that should be one of your worries, obtaining a DO is becoming more of the norm in the medical community rather than 10 years ago (If DO's even existed).

I think in the end if you truly want to be a successful doctor it doesn't matter what path you take as long as you succeed and try your best in what ever specialty you choose to do.

P.S. If money is a major interest to you an MD could be more preferable.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Not scores... It's more of a situational issue. I actually don't have my newest MCAT scores back yet, but I took them before and got a 30 (but my score expired). My GPA is 3.8. I'm applying DO because I think for some of the specialties I'm interested in (oncology, immunology) being trained specifically with a holistic approach to medicine could be an asset.

Really, I just want to apply as broadly as possible because I'm a rather nontraditional applicant. I had a prolonged medical problem that started during college. I ended up taking medical leave and then wasn't able to apply to med school directly after because I needed some surgeries. I've been out for 3 years now and I don't know if MD schools will be as kind about that as DO schools might.

And of course, a DO is a doctor! And that's my goal.

Not a great reason I think...go over to the DO forums. Even most of the DOs think the extra stuff they have to do is crap. Better to go the route that'll make it easier to do what you want.

If you can hit over a 30 with a 3.8 you have a good shot at getting into MD schools. I think they'll be more forgiving than you think. Medical leave is a very good reason for being out of the game and they'll understand that.

 

[gettheleadout]

Not scores... It's more of a situational issue. I actually don't have my newest MCAT scores back yet, but I took them before and got a 30 (but my score expired). My GPA is 3.8. I'm applying DO because I think for some of the specialties I'm interested in (oncology, immunology) being trained specifically with a holistic approach to medicine could be an asset.

Really, I just want to apply as broadly as possible because I'm a rather nontraditional applicant. I had a prolonged medical problem that started during college. I ended up taking medical leave and then wasn't able to apply to med school directly after because I needed some surgeries. I've been out for 3 years now and I don't know if MD schools will be as kind about that as DO schools might.

And of course, a DO is a doctor! And that's my goal.

Yeah, this isn't a good reason. Talk to practicing physicians in those fields; the education you get in medical school will be a small factor in your style of practice compared to your IM residency and fellowship training, and these won't have the "DO philosophy" emphasis that some DO schools may impress upon their students.

As calvnandhobbs said your GPA is great and with even a high 20's MCAT you have a good shot at an MD school.

 

[davidbm95]

If you have a shot at getting into MD schools go for it. I think most people agree you will be better off.

 

[Narmerguy]

You'd probably find more success searching some threads in pre-osteo. Asking this question to a bunch of people committed to allopathic school can still be valuable, but there's probably some additional insight they can offer.