Advisor ignores me

[hardy]

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I started my PhD this Summer, just about three months ago. First my advisor wasn't around so I had plenty of time to get settled in the lab, read some literature etc. I met him when he got back and we mostly talked about classes I need to take and general organizational stuff at the time. A few weeks later I was trying to get started on a project and tried to meet with him. He has an open door and specific lab office hours and specifically said he could not have scheduled individual meetings with everyone in the lab. Fine, so I try to talk to him then but every time he has something more important to do. A grant, a phone call etc. I started bothering him more often about a meeting (think like once a day, nothing unreasonable since he would always just say "later") and eventually I set up an appointment with his secretary, I was told at the beginning to just come talk to him though. Of course, he blows me off at our scheduled time as well and only through the intervention of the secretary, who began feeling sorry for me, did I get to meet with him. At the meeting he mentioned some projects for me to work on and data he had already collected. Fine, we ran out of time at the meeting and I should meet him next week. That was two weeks ago. Again, I try to meet him almost every day, he just blows me off. I even sent him an email asking when meeting would be best and asked on those days with the same result. Today, again, he told me we could meet for sure but now some visitor walked into our lab who obviously gets priority over me. I knew this was going to be somewhat of a problem going into the lab. My advisor is a big name in the field but I never expected to only meet him once in two months!

Any advice? Is this normal or should I be worried that I will never graduate. Whenever I talk to him he mentions getting me out in 3 years and he seems to have a clear plan what my thesis will be, at least that's how it appears.

 

[gstrub]

Sounds like you've got problems.

How did you decide on this lab? Typically students will rotate through labs during M1/M2, meet potential advisors and discuss potential projects, and then decide on their lab based on a combination of factors. The fact that you've been in this lab for over 3 months and don't have a project outlined doesn't help your cause in getting out in 3 years! Are there other graduate students in this lab that you can approach about this subject? More importantly, are there post-docs that can help guide you if your "big name" PI is frequently not around? Has he trained other MD/PhDs? Have you formed a committee yet?

You need to be pro-active in approaching your PI...this is YOUR life/training. In the case of extremely busy/famous/clinical PI's that are not constantly there to guide your progress you could end up in the situation where 2 years go by and your advisor is like "Hey, what the HELL have you been doing for 2 years? You don't even have a story!" You don't want that and neither does he.

What does the director of the MD/PhD program think? You may want to express your frustrations to them as well. If this PI 1. Has fewer than 3 post docs; 2. Has never trained a MD/PhD before, 3. Will only want publications in major journals, 4. Will not meet with you after multiple requests to discuss YOUR future in science and what he can do to help guide you, you MAY want to keep other lab options open. Better to piss away 4 months than to crap away 2 years.

 

[hardy]

How did you decide on this lab? Typically students will rotate through labs during M1/M2, meet potential advisors and discuss potential projects, and then decide on their lab based on a combination of factors. The fact that you've been in this lab for over 3 months and don't have a project outlined doesn't help your cause in getting out in 3 years! Are there other graduate students in this lab that you can approach about this subject? More importantly, are there post-docs that can help guide you if your "big name" PI is frequently not around? Has he trained other MD/PhDs? Have you formed a committee yet?

Of course I rotated in the lab and everything seemed fine. We meet more often in those 4 weeks than we have in the past 3 months! Before I decided on the lab I contacted many of his former students and they all said he was amazing, although sometimes hard to get to. The other graduate students don't get to meet him often either but they already know what they are working on. Plenty of post-docs are around and could help me maybe, if I knew what he wants me to do. I could outline something myself but I know he has something in mind which I will end up working on and by coming up with something myself, with no direction, I would just be wasting my time. No other MD/PhDs before, although he is one himself and we haven't even talked about committee yet.

I am not sure how I can be more proactive. I have tried both... passive asking once and hourly bugging with specific questions (ie Can you meet me at 2? That time rolls around and he still doesn't want to meet). But when I do this he already gives me the annoyed looked. The only thing I can think of at this point is to email him and let him know that I cannot work under these conditions, carefully worded of course.

Honestly, after going through the M1+M2 I am not that optimistic about research anymore anyway. This is not helping my motivation at all and if this doesn't work out I think I will just drop out. I specifically came to this school to work with him since I am/was really excited about his work and my undergrad advisor recommended him.

 

[GraC_undr_PrsR]

Hi Hardy,

I'm sorry to hear you're having these problems, however I want to encourage you to NOT QUIT. I'm in my final year of a D.Phil. and can relate to many of your concerns however I think a good mentor is hard to find (and even if you manage to find one you will have to deal with some non-ideal traits -- no one's perfect). My current advisor is also very busy however we do have weekly lab meetings where I get a turn to speak. I also had trouble pinning my advisor down in the office (always busy, I was low priority, etc). I managed to turn this around by becoming more independent (helpful anyway) and then tailoring my communication with him during informal time (relaxed conversation about my work) and then during lab meetings, while walking to the elevator, etc.


Two years ago I was pretty close to dropping my D.Phil. and then going straight to medical school. Luckily I stayed with it and now things are great. I learned more about going through that period. In general, sticking to it is probably the best way.

Beware of changing labs and going into a potentially worse situation.

Your advisor has a track record of getting students out and they have positive things to say. Now that you are aware of the downside, use this to your advantage. Don't give up!

 

[dl2dp2]

very very typical story

(1) is your boss a big name?

big name = big ego.
pros: your reputation, future job
cons: he ignores you and judges you
you need to ask around and play political, make yourself sound smart and proactive. make him like you. trust me, the people skills you develop through this exercise will serve you well. hunt him down, but also be prepared for each of your meetings to be efficient, productive, and present new results

(2) is your boss a new faculty with lots of pressure?

assistant profs are usually very busy
pros: after a busy stretch, he will give you much more guidance
cons: he could be a slave driver, you should enjoy your time off now.
try to build a background knowledge base and assess the reasons he's busy. is his R01 due? is he submitting a big paper? is his marriage falling apart? etc. etc.

gossip = information = power

if you really have nothing to do, there are two possible strategies
(1) you can ask around, esp. prodigious postdocs, and start there
(2) you can talk to other PIs in the same institution in related fields, or from different institutions, collaborators, etc.

basically at the end of the day your options are limited, but it's a great opportunity to develop your independence. talk to your PhD program office. if possible, start writing a proposal (even if it's abbreviated and incomplete), begin with a review of literature, then research plan (specific aims), etc. and with a budget

by then even if your advisor tries you ignore you he won't be able to.

good luck and have fun! Think of it this way, wouldn't it suck more if you are nothing more than a lab robot that does everything your advisor tells you?

 

[hardy]

Sloux: It's case (1).

Thanks for both of your advise and encouragement. I will email him later this weekend expressing my concern and tell him that I need a plan on my work and that I won't have to bother him as much once that is in place.