Affirmative Action? URM?

[AlteredScale]

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Does anyone know of any recent changes or updates regarding affirmative action or URM with regards to being filipino?

I've been hearing that there are some changes in that URM will be state specific in terms of ratios so to speak. Though I may not know too much and can't seem to find much through my own research.

Thanks

 

[Plue00]

Does anyone know of any recent changes or updates regarding affirmative action or URM with regards to being filipino?

I've been hearing that there are some changes in that URM will be state specific in terms of ratios so to speak. Though I may not know too much and can't seem to find much through my own research.

Thanks

Filipinos are just as underrepresented in medicine as are Indians.

They're not.

 

[dahassa]

Does anyone know of any recent changes or updates regarding affirmative action or URM with regards to being filipino?

I've been hearing that there are some changes in that URM will be state specific in terms of ratios so to speak. Though I may not know too much and can't seem to find much through my own research.

Thanks

Filipinos are just as underrepresented in medicine as are Indians.

They're not.

Actually, this is false. Filipinos are considered URM. All Asians are not treated equally. Obviously, when compared to Indians and Chinese, Filipinos are underrepresented. The level of URM status will depends on the demographics of the state and the mission of the university. However, AA groups usually reference Fillipino college matriculation (at least at the UG level).

 

[gyngyn]

Actually, this is false. Filipinos are considered URM. All Asians are not treated equally. Obviously, when compared to Indians and Chinese, Filipinos are underrepresented. The level of URM status will depends on the demographics of the state and the mission of the university. However, AA groups usually reference Fillipino college matriculation (at least at the UG level).

Filipinos are not generally considered UIM. They may well be underrrepresented in college compared to numbers in the population. Unfortunately for pre-meds, a huge number of immigrant Physicians practicing in the US came from the Philippines, making them overrepresented.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Filipinos are not generally considered UIM. They may well be underrrepresented in college compared to numbers in the population. Unfortunately for pre-meds, a huge number of immigrant Physicians practicing in the US came from the Philippines, making them overrepresented.

I believe for the AAMC's application purposes, URM is considered: African-American, American Indian, Hispanic/Latino, and Pacific Islanders.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Does anyone know of any recent changes or updates regarding affirmative action or URM with regards to being filipino?

I've been hearing that there are some changes in that URM will be state specific in terms of ratios so to speak. Though I may not know too much and can't seem to find much through my own research.

Thanks

I think it depends regionally on the school if Filipinos make up a large part of their service area. I know CDU/UCLA recruits Asian nationalities as underrepresented, but they only have like 25 seats.

 

[gyngyn]

I think it depends regionally on the school if Filipinos make up a large part of their service area. I know CDU/UCLA recruits Asian nationalities as underrepresented, but they only have like 25 seats.

Yes. A school can identify any underrepresented group and recruit toward the aim of equity. The disproportionate number of practicing Filipino Physicians makes the likelihood that any given school will designate them UIM is small (CDU notwithstanding).

 

[LizzyM]

I googled AAMC URM


and this is the first hit:

https://www.aamc.org/initiatives/urm/

The school determines what it considers URM based on which groups are under-represented in medicine in their area compared with the area's population. A school's "area" can be local, regional, state-wide, or national.

 

[dahassa]

I googled AAMC URM


and this is the first hit:

https://www.aamc.org/initiatives/urm/

The school determines what it considers URM based on which groups are under-represented in medicine in their area compared with the area's population. A school's "area" can be local, regional, state-wide, or national.

Depending on the school/region, Filipinos are considered URM. When prop 209 was passed in CA (banning AA), the percentage of Filipino students decreased greatly.

http://www.modelminority.com/joomla...-help-asian-americans-&catid=42:law&Itemid=56

I would imagine for medical school the same would apply.

 

[gyngyn]

Depending on the school/region, Filipinos are considered URM. When prop 209 was passed in CA (banning AA), the percentage of Filipino students decreased greatly.

http://www.modelminority.com/joomla...-help-asian-americans-&catid=42:law&Itemid=56

I would imagine for medical school the same would apply.

Yes, the number of students is small for the population, but UIM compares the number of physicians/population. That is what makes Medical school UIM different from undergrad URM.

 

[dahassa]

Yes, the number of students is small for the population, but UIM compares the number of physicians/population. That is what makes Medical school UIM different from undergrad URM.

Part of the reason for URM is the physician/patient population ratio but the other part is diversity. AA is suppose to allow for diversity and this is the primary argument that was used in the supreme court AA case. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe the primary application tells you to indicate your nationality (Chinese, Korean, Filipino, ect). A class with an Asian population that is 100% Indian will be less diverse than one that is 20% Indian, 30% Chinese, 10% Vietnamese, ect). I don't think they would bother to ask you for your nationality if it didn't matter. The degree to which being Filipino may help might be less but why would they ask if they dont care. Even the MSAR breaks asians down by nationality. Clearly, we don't know but that is what I would imagine to be true.

 

[gyngyn]

Part of the reason for URM is the physician/patient population ratio but the other part is diversity. AA is suppose to allow for diversity and this is the primary argument that was used in the supreme court AA case. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe the primary application tells you to indicate your nationality (Chinese, Korean, Filipino, ect). A class with an Asian population that is 100% Indian will be less diverse than one that is 20% Indian, 30% Chinese, 10% Vietnamese, ect). I don't think they would bother to ask you for your nationality if it didn't matter. The degree to which being Filipino may help might be less but why would they ask if they dont care. Even the MSAR breaks asians down by nationality. Clearly, we don't know but that is what I would imagine to be true.

I agree with you regarding the importance of diversity. The issue of service equity, however, means that some groups (Cubans, Brazilians, Filipinos...) though they fall into a broad description that includes communities underreprresented in Medicine, are not considered for additional recruitment .

 

[whatbout2morrow]

It is based on number of physicians in relation to population, not the number in medical school here. I believe at some point, the Philippines was the second largest contributor of foreign physicians behind India.

 

[Plue00]

So one of the richest/most educated ethnic groups in the US gets AA.

Yup, that seems fair. 🙄

Even if they're underrepresented in medicine (which I don't think they are), they're still doing better as a whole than most other ethnic groups in the US.

 

[LizzyM]

So one of the richest/most educated ethnic groups in the US gets AA.

Yup, that seems fair. 🙄

Even if they're underrepresented in medicine (which I don't think they are), they're still doing better as a whole than most other ethnic groups in the US.

What group are you talking about?

 

[Gauss44]

Does anyone know of any recent changes or updates regarding affirmative action or URM with regards to being filipino?

I've been hearing that there are some changes in that URM will be state specific in terms of ratios so to speak. Though I may not know too much and can't seem to find much through my own research.

Thanks

Aren't some or all filipinos hispanic?

Edit: Google it. Many sources say, "yes."

 

[ChemEngMD]

The school determines it.

http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/c...dToday/Peaks/Pages/DiversitybytheNumbers.aspx

^^Colorado considers Vietnamese students to be URM even though they are Asian. There are unfortunately major differences between say Chinese and Japanese people in medicine and Vietnamese, Filipinos, Cambodians, etc....some schools are progressive enough to understand this.

 

[Plue00]

What group are you talking about?

Filipino Americans. They rank somewhere in the top 10 out of ~140 or so ethnicities in the US in terms of wealth.

 

[pandaman2000]

Filipino as URM? lol.

You're asian. Don't bet on your ethnicity helping you. (If anything, it hurts your chances).

All you can do is work hard and apply well.

 

[LizzyM]

So one of the richest/most educated ethnic groups in the US gets AA.

Yup, that seems fair. 🙄

Even if they're underrepresented in medicine (which I don't think they are), they're still doing better as a whole than most other ethnic groups in the US.

I have never heard a case made for there being too few Filipino physicians compared to the proportion of Filipinos in the US population or too few in relation to the Filipino population of a specific state or region.

Have you heard of Filipinos getting a boost in medical school admission because they are URM? What proof do you have? Frankly, I've not seen it myself.

 

[Plue00]

I have never heard a case made for there being too few Filipino physicians compared to the proportion of Filipinos in the US population or too few in relation to the Filipino population of a specific state or region.

Have you heard of Filipinos getting a boost in medical school admission because they are URM? What proof do you have? Frankly, I've not seen it myself.

I was just going off of what other people posted on the thread. I assumed they didn't get the AA advantage because they were Asian and not underrepresented, but others seemed to disagree.

 

[Gauss44]

If I were Filipino, I would mark the Hispanic box.

I'm serious. Google it. Or go here: http://www.hispanic-culture-online.com/are-filipinos-hispanic.html

Filipinos: It's your lucky day!

 

[gyngyn]

If I were Filipino, I would mark the Hispanic box.

I'm serious. Google it. Or go here: http://www.hispanic-culture-online.com/are-filipinos-hispanic.html

That's fine, still not UIM.

 

[ChemEngMD]

If I were Filipino, I would mark the Hispanic box.

I'm serious. Google it. Or go here: http://www.hispanic-culture-online.com/are-filipinos-hispanic.html

You mark what you identify yourself as, not what is convenient to you. I have met Filipinos who are blatantly mixed with Spanish and some who are not. Mark down what you have identified yourself as for your entire life. That's how it should be done, but it probably won't be. If you are 1/8 black and you have always identified with being black then mark down black...if you happen to be 1/8 black and have always identified as white then mark down white. Self-identification - it's simple.

 

[Plue00]

If I were Filipino, I would mark the Hispanic box.

I'm serious. Google it. Or go here: http://www.hispanic-culture-online.com/are-filipinos-hispanic.html

Uhh, no. If being Hispanic gets him an interview, and the interviewer sees that he's obviously Asian and trying to play the system, he's going to get rejected.

You mark what you identify yourself as, not what is convenient to you. I have met Filipinos who are blatantly mixed with Spanish and some who are not. Mark down what you have identified yourself as for your entire life. That's how it should be done, but it probably won't be. If you are 1/8 black and you have always identified with being black then mark down black...if you happen to be 1/8 black and have always identified as white then mark down white. Self-identification - it's simple.

👍

 

[Gauss44]

Uhh, no. If being Hispanic gets him an interview, and the interviewer sees that he's obviously Asian and trying to play the system, he's going to get rejected.



👍

It's not mutually exclusive.

 

[medemic]

Aren't some or all filipinos hispanic?

Filipinos are NOT Hispanic. Hispanics are native Mexican Spaniards, genetically. Filipinos are native Filipno Spaniards. Check yo history. Yay for colonization lol.

 

[Gauss44]

Filipinos are NOT Hispanic. Hispanics are native Mexican Spaniards, genetically. Filipinos are native Filipno Spaniards. Check yo history. Yay for colonization lol.

There's a lot of disagreement about that. Again, google it.

 

[ChemEngMD]

Filipinos are NOT Hispanic. Hispanics are native Mexican Spaniards, genetically. Filipinos are native Filipno Spaniards. Check yo history. Yay for colonization lol.

So only "native Mexican Spaniards" (a completely nonsensical term mind you) are Hispanic? You need to check yo history, my brother.

 

[medemic]

So only "native Mexican Spaniards" (a completely nonsensical term mind you) are Hispanic? You need to check yo history, my brother.

It's a nonsensical term because I made it up to make a point. Quit the passive aggressiveness. You know what I mean. I am Hispanic. I know my history. You can easily differentiate between a true blood native Mexican and a Hispanic. They have different features and names. The Spaniards did the same thing to Mexico as they did to the Philippines. For example, my last name ends with a -mino. The suffix mino is historically Spanish not Mexican.

 

[Gauss44]

It's a nonsensical term because I made it up to make a point. Quit the passive aggressiveness. You know what I mean. I am Hispanic. I know my history. You can easily differentiate between a true blood native Mexican and a Hispanic. They have different features and names. The Spaniards did the same thing to Mexico as they did to the Philippines. For example, my last name ends with a -mino. The suffix mino is historically Spanish not Mexican.

A Mestizo racially? And Mexican regionally. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestizo

Possibly, Wikipedia lists Phillipines in the right column as another region with significant Mestizo population.

Remember, Hispanics can be of any race. Google it. Or go here: http://lrc.salemstate.edu/hispanics/race.htm

 

[medemic]

A Mestizo racially? And Mexican regionally. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestizo

Possibly, Wikipedia lists Phillipines in the right column as another region with significant Mestizo population.

Remember, Hispanics can be of any race. Google it. Or go here: http://lrc.salemstate.edu/hispanics/race.htm

You're right, to an extent. Mestizos is a term relative to Spain. Hispanics is a term, relative to America.

 

[ChemEngMD]

It's a nonsensical term because I made it up to make a point. Quit the passive aggressiveness. You know what I mean. I am Hispanic. I know my history. You can easily differentiate between a true blood native Mexican and a Hispanic. They have different features and names. The Spaniards did the same thing to Mexico as they did to the Philippines. For example, my last name ends with a -mino. The suffix mino is historically Spanish not Mexican.

You're right, to an extent. Mestizos is a term relative to Spain. Hispanics is a term, relative to America.

Hispanic is a term invented by the US to classify all people who are of Spanish speaking origin. My point was simply that Mexicans are not the only Hispanics....there are a whole bunch of us from around the Caribbean, Central and South America...some of us got to those countries two generations ago and some twenty (hence I know someone from Argentina with an Irish last name...Hispanic nonetheless). It's self-designation. If you were a Chinese immigrant to Puerto Rico in the 1900s and have had a couple of generations in a Spanish speaking country you would likely put down your ethnicity as Hispanic/Latino and your race as Asian.

I for instance am Puerto Rican and Dominican and list myself as Hispanic/Latino for ethnicity and then Afro-Caribbean and White for race.

Then again lets also not forget the Mexican caste system.

Any of those combinations would be considered Hispanic by today's designation.

So what is a "true blood" Mexican?

 

[AlteredScale]

Thanks for the input guys. I would identify myself as filipino. So I'm just going to put that on my app because I don't want to BS anything. If its school specific it'd be great. Because after some conversation with some of the gastroenterology attending here I've been hearing that Filipino in general is underrepresented in physician practice.

Anyone have any stats that may prove or disprove this notion?

 

[Jimsy]

If I were Filipino, I would mark the Hispanic box.

I'm serious. Google it. Or go here: http://www.hispanic-culture-online.com/are-filipinos-hispanic.html

Filipinos: It's your lucky day!

Not true. If you're Filipino, just check Filipino in AMCAS to avoid any unwanted complications.

 

[Jimsy]

Thanks for the input guys. I would identify myself as filipino. So I'm just going to put that on my app because I don't want to BS anything. If its school specific it'd be great. Because after some conversation with some of the gastroenterology attending here I've been hearing that Filipino in general is underrepresented in physician practice.

Anyone have any stats that may prove or disprove this notion?

I think most schools don't consider Filipinos as URM. The only school that does is the university of utah

 

[whatbout2morrow]

Thanks for the input guys. I would identify myself as filipino. So I'm just going to put that on my app because I don't want to BS anything. If its school specific it'd be great. Because after some conversation with some of the gastroenterology attending here I've been hearing that Filipino in general is underrepresented in physician practice.

Anyone have any stats that may prove or disprove this notion?

http://www.ama-assn.org//ama/pub/ab...mgs-in-united-states/imgs-country-origin.page

IMGs by Country of Origin
Top 20 countries where IMGs received medical training
The following list ranks the top 20 countries where the largest numbers of U.S. physicians trained. These data do not represent citizenship or ethnic origin; they only represent the location of the medical school where the U.S. practicing physician obtained their medical degree.

India - 19.9% (47,581)
Philippines - 8.7% (20,861)
Mexico - 5.8% (13,929)
Pakistan - 4.8% (11,330)
Dominican Republic - 3.3% (7,892)
U.S.S.R. - 2.5% (6,039)
Grenada - 2.4% (5,708)
Egypt - 2.2% (5,202)
Korea - 2.1% (4,982)
Italy - 2.1% (4,978)
China - 2.0% (4,834)
Iran - 2.0% (4,741)
Spain - 1.9% (4,570)
Dominica - 1.9% (4,501)
Germany - 1.9% (4,457)
Syria - 1.5% (3,676)
Columbia - 1.4% (3,335)
Israel 1.4% (3,260)
England- 1.4% (3,245)
Montserrat (3,111)
Source: 2007 AMA Masterfile

Keep in mind that this does not count people of Filipino descent who attend/have attended medical school in the US.

It's region dependent, but try comparing the ratios of Filipino doctors to Filipinos and African-American/Mexican doctors to African-Americans/Mexicans in a given region and you will usually find a huge difference.

 

[Gauss44]

Thanks for the input guys. I would identify myself as filipino. So I'm just going to put that on my app because I don't want to BS anything. If its school specific it'd be great. Because after some conversation with some of the gastroenterology attending here I've been hearing that Filipino in general is underrepresented in physician practice.

Anyone have any stats that may prove or disprove this notion?

Sure, but if a Filipino considered himself to be Hispanic, he wouldn't be, "BSing."

If someone disagreed with him, they would be of different opinions. It's not like one person's lying. IMO, it would be awful to later regret passing up URM or underrepresented status and potential extra funding because someone talked you out of it.

Multi-ethnic and multi-racial people should be allowed to identify adequately. It doesn't matter if you are an Asian Hispanic, a White Hispanic, or a mixture of 3 races and 7 ethnicities. These days, I think most people get that. Some people don't, but such is life.

To answer your question, I don't think that Filipinos are singled out and specifically listed as "underrepresented" at most schools because they are a relatively smaller nationality that most Americans are less familiar with (then say, Mexicans and Puerto Ricans).

 

[Ansar]

http://www.ama-assn.org//ama/pub/ab...mgs-in-united-states/imgs-country-origin.page



Keep in mind that this does not count people of Filipino descent who attend/have attended medical school in the US.

It's region dependent, but try comparing the ratios of Filipino doctors to Filipinos and African-American/Mexican doctors to African-Americans/Mexicans in a given region and you will usually find a huge difference.

I know you didn't write the list, but why oh why can't people write Colombia correctly??? 😡

 

[LizzyM]

I know you didn't write the list, but why oh why can't people write Colombia correctly??? 😡

Because they love Columbia?? Funny that docs in NY always call it P&S.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Any of those combinations would be considered Hispanic by today's designation.

So what is a "true blood" Mexican?

A true-blooded Mexican is the same thing as a true-blooded American.

 

[ChemEngMD]

A true-blooded Mexican is the same thing as a true-blooded American.

I was referring to medemic who originally said you could distinguish a true-blooded Native Mexican from others by their last name lol...he disappeared once I brought up the caste system and showed that all people in Mexico are Mexican (and hence Hispanic), regardless of racial background.