After a couple years out as an attending, grass is definitely greener for us

[wamcp]

I'm a hospitalist. I currently work 10 night shifts (12 hours a shift) each month (1440 hours a year) and pull in $258K base pay. This is not including benefits and bonus incentives.

That is an average work week hour of 27.6 and effective hourly wage of $179.

All I had to do was complete a 3 year residency after med school, and internal med was pretty easy to match vs other specialties.

And I am an example of the "lower paying" specialty (derm and EM would be more per hour on average)

And no, I don't reside in podunk nowhere or work locums for the pay, I live in Chicago.

Compare this to those who went the MBA path for finance, banking etc. To earn the same as us per year, the lot of them are breaking their backs with far lower effective hourly wages in the $40-50 range. And in a recession, their job security is always hanging by a thread.


Tldr: the light is at the end of tunnel, just hang in there

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[wamcp]

I'm a hospitalist. I currently work 10 night shifts (12 hours a shift) each month (1440 hours a year) and pull in $258K base pay. This is not including benefits and bonus incentives.

That is an average work week hour of 27.6 and effective hourly wage of $179.

All I had to do was complete a 3 year residency after med school, and internal med was pretty easy to match vs other specialties.

And I am an example of the "lower paying" specialty (derm and EM would be more per hour on average)

And no, I don't reside in podunk nowhere, I live in Chicago.

Compare this to those who went the MBA path for finance, banking etc. To earn the same as us per year, the lot of them are breaking their backs with far lower effective hourly wages in the $40-50 range. And in a recession, their job security is always hanging by a thread.


Tldr: the light is at the end of tunnel, just hang in there

The Top 10 MBA Jobs…by effective hourly wage – TransparentCareer Blog

 

[Newyawk]

Thanks so much for this. Really needed to hear this right now during a draining clerkship year.

 

[WiseOne]

I'm a hospitalist. I currently work 10 night shifts (12 hours a shift) each month (1440 hours a year) and pull in $258K base pay. This is not including benefits and bonus incentives.

That is an average work week hour of 27.6 and effective hourly wage of $179.

All I had to do was complete a 3 year residency after med school, and internal med was pretty easy to match vs other specialties.

And I am an example of the "lower paying" specialty (derm and EM would be more per hour on average)

And no, I don't reside in podunk nowhere or work locums for the pay, I live in Chicago.

Compare this to those who went the MBA path for finance, banking etc. To earn the same as us per year, the lot of them are breaking their backs with far lower effective hourly wages in the $40-50 range. And in a recession, their job security is always hanging by a thread.


Tldr: the light is at the end of tunnel, just hang in there

How do we how common such positions are/how did you attain such a job. Did you happen to do residency in the area?

 

[Giovanotto]

How much less would you be earning if those were day-time shifts rather than overnights? Cause that's the sort of gig I'm hoping for, low hours, average pay, etc.

 

[wamcp]

How do we how common such positions are/how did you attain such a job. Did you happen to do residency in the area?

The LOWEST nocturnist job offer my friends and I have encountered for starting fresh out of residency in a DESIRABLE, saturated area AND doing academics (which always pay lower), such as inside Boston or NYC itself, you will likely get ~220K base for 144 shifts (12 hr each).

Jobs are plentiful and the median pay is much better than the worst case I just described.

And no I did not do residency in the area I live now

 

[wamcp]

How much less would you be earning if those were day-time shifts rather than overnights? Cause that's the sort of gig I'm hoping for, low hours, average pay, etc.

There is usually a ~15 to 20% less pay for daytime only shift work.

Lowest paying gig possible, such as in an academic center in a saturated area like inside Boston or NYC is 200K for 180 shifts a year. One friend had 180K offer for 172 shifts but it did have great benefits (20K/yr retirement contribution by the employer).

The median pay is much higher, expect 270K for community daytime hospitalist gig for 15 shifts a month.

My word of advice is don't only chase after numbers when considering multiple job offers in any specialty. Think about what you are expected to do to make each buck. A chill job as a daytime hospitalist making 230K for 15 shifts a month where you round on 12 patients from 8a to 2p and then peacing out to go home will be far happier and sustainable than an ER doc making 300K for soul crushing shifts seeing 2-3 pt/hr

 

[Money Moniker]

How secure do you think the Hospitalist job market is long term from:

1) More people than before deciding fellowship is a racket and forgoing it to do hospitalist medicine
2) Creeping midlevel utilization
3) National contract management group/hospital consolidation decreasing the number of effective "unique" employers

 

[NYCdude]

How secure do you think the Hospitalist job market is long term from:

1) More people than before deciding fellowship is a racket and forgoing it to do hospitalist medicine
2) Creeping midlevel utilization
3) National contract management group/hospital consolidation decreasing the number of effective "unique" employers

What does midlevel utilization have to do with hospitalists. They make the attending's job easier if anything.

 

[shisong]

I'm a hospitalist. I currently work 10 night shifts (12 hours a shift) each month (1440 hours a year) and pull in $258K base pay. This is not including benefits and bonus incentives.

That is an average work week hour of 27.6 and effective hourly wage of $179.

All I had to do was complete a 3 year residency after med school, and internal med was pretty easy to match vs other specialties.

And I am an example of the "lower paying" specialty (derm and EM would be more per hour on average)

And no, I don't reside in podunk nowhere or work locums for the pay, I live in Chicago.

Compare this to those who went the MBA path for finance, banking etc. To earn the same as us per year, the lot of them are breaking their backs with far lower effective hourly wages in the $40-50 range. And in a recession, their job security is always hanging by a thread.


Tldr: the light is at the end of tunnel, just hang in there

is the 258k base pay before tax right?

 

[zanzizic]

is the 258k base pay before tax right?

Yes. No one ever quotes after tax pay.

 

[NeurologyHopeful2018]

Neurology is much much better.

Starting salary is around 300-350K for neurohospitalist working similiar schedule and number of shifts. The beauty is your work is much more specialized/focused and generally much slower paced. Neurology will continue to earn high salaries due to the high demand (much higher than IM).

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Neurology is much much better.

Starting salary is around 300-350K for neurohospitalist working similiar schedule and number of shifts. The beauty is your work is much more specialized/focused and generally much slower paced. Neurology will continue to earn high salaries due to the high demand (much higher than IM).

And super rewarding when you get to tell 95% of your patients that there’s absolutely no treatment for their paralysis/pain/cognitive decline!

 

[GrignardsReagent]

While the others might overthink the OP and then ask super detailed questions that pertain to a future that we can't predict or coming in to post that their specialty is better. I appreciate OP's sentiment that yes life gets better. So thank you!

 

[libertyyne]

Neurology is much much better.

Starting salary is around 300-350K for neurohospitalist working similiar schedule and number of shifts. The beauty is your work is much more specialized/focused and generally much slower paced. Neurology will continue to earn high salaries due to the high demand (much higher than IM).

every Source I have found says that Neurology Salaries are 244~ median. I know the neurologist hopefuls or recently matched like to say numbers as high as 500K, where are you folks getting this information? Even the MGMA data( older one atleast) puts Neurology in line with IM.

 

[NeurologyHopeful2018]

every Source I have found says that Neurology Salaries are 244~ median. I know the neurologist hopefuls or recently matched like to say numbers as high as 500K, where are you folks getting this information? Even the MGMA data( older one atleast) puts Neurology in line with IM.

Because most Neurologists work in academic settings, unlike IM where only a minority does.

 

[libertyyne]

Because most Neurologists work in academic settings, unlike IM where only a minority does.

That would still not change the fact that the medians/means are closer to 244 compared to the larger numbers that get quoted. Dont get me wrong, I find neurology fascinating. Its just that I feel like I am missing something when the numbers that get reported are very different from the numbers from most sources.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Neurology is much much better.

Starting salary is around 300-350K for neurohospitalist working similiar schedule and number of shifts. The beauty is your work is much more specialized/focused and generally much slower paced. Neurology will continue to earn high salaries due to the high demand (much higher than IM).

Neurology has call and works more hours.

 

[Microshaft]

dude how do you only work 27.6 hours a week
thats bomb

 

[MedicalDoge]

What do you do with your free time?

 

[Doctor_ruski]

I'm a hospitalist. I currently work 10 night shifts (12 hours a shift) each month (1440 hours a year) and pull in $258K base pay. This is not including benefits and bonus incentives.

That is an average work week hour of 27.6 and effective hourly wage of $179.

All I had to do was complete a 3 year residency after med school, and internal med was pretty easy to match vs other specialties.

And I am an example of the "lower paying" specialty (derm and EM would be more per hour on average)

And no, I don't reside in podunk nowhere or work locums for the pay, I live in Chicago.

Compare this to those who went the MBA path for finance, banking etc. To earn the same as us per year, the lot of them are breaking their backs with far lower effective hourly wages in the $40-50 range. And in a recession, their job security is always hanging by a thread.


Tldr: the light is at the end of tunnel, just hang in there

Do you enjoy the work you're doing? I have heard that some hospitalists feel like "secretaries" for specialists, not getting to make their own plans for pt care, etc.

 

[AsianPersuasion]

#GOALS

 

[HueySmith]

Dont worry, soon the hospitalists field will be saturated too. And, it's not hard to imagine that the jobs in big metropolitans would be harder to come by as more and more physicians get trained.

 

[curiousneuro]

And super rewarding when you get to tell 95% of your patients that there’s absolutely no treatment for their paralysis/pain/cognitive decline!

Unfortunate that some medical students still have this mindset...which is why neurology should be a required rotation in every medical school.

 

[Psai]

There is usually a ~15 to 20% less pay for daytime only shift work.

Lowest paying gig possible, such as in an academic center in a saturated area like inside Boston or NYC is 200K for 180 shifts a year. One friend had 180K offer for 172 shifts but it did have great benefits (20K/yr retirement contribution by the employer).

The median pay is much higher, expect 270K for community daytime hospitalist gig for 15 shifts a month.

My word of advice is don't only chase after numbers when considering multiple job offers in any specialty. Think about what you are expected to do to make each buck. A chill job as a daytime hospitalist making 230K for 15 shifts a month where you round on 12 patients from 8a to 2p and then peacing out to go home will be far happier and sustainable than an ER doc making 300K for soul crushing shifts seeing 2-3 pt/hr

Pft you can make 180k easy as a midlevel. Crnas in a big academic center in a desirable city in california can make 250 base.

 

[wamcp]

Pft you can make 180k easy as a midlevel. Crnas in a big academic center in a desirable city in california can make 250 base.

Seem like a lot of folks here need to do some critical thinking

I quoted the lowest possible paying hospitalist gig that exists as an example. CRNA or midlevels in a lowest possible paying job will be far south of that.

And like I said, you need to understand what you are doing to earn each dollar at work. 180K academic teaching hospitalist can round and go home with a resident team in only a couple hours. The residents are doing the grunt work for you. You may be basically paid an effective hourly wage of 400 to $500 per hour of actually being in the hospital. The same simply cannot be said of midlevels or CRNAs.

 

[wamcp]

Do you enjoy the work you're doing? I have heard that some hospitalists feel like "secretaries" for specialists, not getting to make their own plans for pt care, etc.

I love the work because it's easy and sustainable. Obviously there is a huge variation between hospitals (such as open vs closed ICU, competency of nursing staff, available subspecialty support, the kind of EMR used etc etc) that will determine your job satisfaction. But for my current position, I often don't bother adjusting my sleep schedule from daytime, because I get to sleep at least 4-5 hours on most nights - it's usually that quiet

 

[wamcp]

Neurology is much much better.

Starting salary is around 300-350K for neurohospitalist working similiar schedule and number of shifts. The beauty is your work is much more specialized/focused and generally much slower paced. Neurology will continue to earn high salaries due to the high demand (much higher than IM).

It's whatever floats you and others' boat.

I chose hospitalist because I don't want to have to put up with home calls or outpaitent setting, kids (hated peds), pregnant patients (nope to ob gyn), crazies (please, shoot me dead if I had to do neuro or psych!), and burnout (ruled out EM and anything surgical).

 

[wamcp]

What do you do with your free time?

Other than enjoying life? I usually end up taking 5-6 extra shifts a month. I anticipate income well over mid-400K again this year- whenever my wife and I have kids I'll likely scale back to the minimum 12 shifts a month

 

[MedicalDoge]

Other than enjoying life? I usually end up taking 5-6 extra shifts a month. I anticipate income well over mid-400K again this year- whenever my wife and I have kids I'll likely scale back to the minimum 12 shifts a month

Dang I need your life

 

[MedicalDoge]

Other than enjoying life? I usually end up taking 5-6 extra shifts a month. I anticipate income well over mid-400K again this year- whenever my wife and I have kids I'll likely scale back to the minimum 12 shifts a month

If you don't mind me asking, how would you describe the "prestige" of your med school and residency. Top, Mid, Low? Does this affect salary in the hospitalist field?

 

[Candidate2017]

It's whatever floats you and others' boat.

I chose hospitalist because I don't want to have to put up with home calls or outpaitent setting, kids (hated peds), pregnant patients (nope to ob gyn), crazies (please, shoot me dead if I had to do neuro or psych!), and burnout (ruled out EM and anything surgical).

But everyone ends up doing psych except maybe radiologists, pathologists and psychiatrists.

 

[Amazingmuzmo]

If you don't mind me asking, how would you describe the "prestige" of your med school and residency. Top, Mid, Low? Does this affect salary in the hospitalist field?

Lmfao. Such a med student question, naive.

 

[W19]

I love the work because it's easy and sustainable. Obviously there is a huge variation between hospitals (such as open vs closed ICU, competency of nursing staff, available subspecialty support, the kind of EMR used etc etc) that will determine your job satisfaction. But for my current position, I often don't bother adjusting my sleep schedule from daytime, because I get to sleep at least 4-5 hours on most nights - it's usually that quiet

your gig is the kind of gig I will be looking for in 2+ years, but I would prefer to do day shift...

 

[W19]

Waiting for a premed to say his/her friend doing better working for FB or Google--like it's easy to land these gigs.

 

[Psai]

Lmfao. Such a med student question, naive.

Nah I think it's a good question. Prestige has a negative correlation with income because they expect you to be happy working for "Harvard" and pay you like ****. They may even expect research productivity out of you like NYU's prestigious hospitalist scholars program where you get to work nights and weekends for crap pay for 2 years. Or maybe you can be a part of Mayo's top notch hospitalist fellowship where you spend a year learning how to perform "hospital medicine" (aka what you did for 3 years in IM residency) except you get paid 1/4 the salary you should be earning.

 

[IMreshopeful]

If you don't mind me asking, how would you describe the "prestige" of your med school and residency. Top, Mid, Low? Does this affect salary in the hospitalist field?

Nobody cares where you went to medical school for a hospitalist job. Literally no one. If they do, I don’t want the job.

Residency is a different story. Coming from an academic residency may help you get an academic hospitalist job, but tbh I’ve seen hospitalist attendings at academic centers who came from community residencies. Most places will be happy to have you from anywhere as long as you’re not incompetent

 

[Liberty_99]

What does midlevel utilization have to do with hospitalists. They make the attending's job easier if anything.

Lol if a hospitalists job becomes easy the hospital would hire 1 dr instead of 2 ...this is the same lie radiologist tell themselves about AI

 

[TheIllusionist]

I agree. Even the effective pay for the initial finance people. Granted, a few of their super stars make 300 to 400k with their bonuses at 25 at top PE/HF funds working much better hours than IB, so they have some free time to use it. Hard to beat living in nyc in your 20s with money. But not many people like that.

 

[mehc012]

Unfortunate that some medical students still have this mindset...which is why neurology should be a required rotation in every medical school.

This was only reinforced by my required neurology rotation, so I'm not sure that's the solution...

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Lmfao. Such a med student question, naive.

Status: Attending Physician

Bro, I know you IRL. You're still a resident!

 

[catnip12]

Status: Attending Physician

Bro, I know you IRL. You're still a resident!

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

I agree. Even the effective pay for the initial finance people. Granted, a few of their super stars make 300 to 400k with their bonuses at 25 at top PE/HF funds working much better hours than IB, so they have some free time to use it. Hard to beat living in nyc in your 20s with money. But not many people like that.

I rather live in Miami in my 20s with money than NYC. What the hell is so great about NYC? This post is not in ignorant of the NYC bells and whistles considering that I went to undergrad close to the area for 4 yrs.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I rather live in Miami in my 20s with money than NYC. What the hell is so great about NYC? This post is not in ignorant of the NYC bells and whistles considering that I went to undergrad close to the area for 4 yrs.

Miami is great even without money too. Beach is free, and so is hanging out by the pool at the Ritz on Key Biscayne if you make friends with the bar tender.

 

[TheIllusionist]

I said hard to beat. Not impossible. Ladies with thickness in all the right places are greater per capita in Miami. Just not as easy to kill it in your youth their with money. I mean you could be one of those super young small business owner ballers. Also, yeah. Any place can be fun with little money, if you are amazing at networking. Most of us just don't have those types of networking skills, the types to get into tons of bars and clubs for free all the damn time and have hookups into the best parties and the access to the best women constantly. A lot of that is your social skills some of that is your genetic looks. Regardless, the path I was talking about, in general is accessible to most nerds that just try hard aka just like medicine. Medicine the spread of talent is a high level and pretty narrow (I'm talking people that get into MD meritocratically). If those people aren't half bad at math and have some modicum of social skills (I know enough awk finance peeps) they could also do the ****.

 

[puahate]

I feel like Miami is probably a better place if you are young and with money. So many thicc ones there. But I heard Philly and NY have better gender ratios than FL.

 

[NicMouse64]

I feel like Miami is probably a better place if you are young and with money. So many thicc ones there. But I heard Philly and NY have better gender ratios than FL.

All you need to learn in Miami: jajajaja. Anyways back to OP. Do you think that your current practice is sustainable (ie you can do it for the next 30 years) or do you think you will be looking for a career change in the future (fellowship, administration, tech, etc.)

 

[Frazier]

The light at the end of the tunnel, as framed in this thread... is a paycheck.

Danger!

Keep in mind, it has been heavily researched and "making more money" past a certain point is not going to save you from burnout, enable you to truly enjoy your job, or make you happy.

I hope the light at the end of the tunnel is finishing training being able to practice precisely the type of medicine in the way that I feel is best for the patient population I like best.

Choose your specialty content carefully, medical students.

180k or 300k... it doesn't really matter. Do what you enjoy.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

The light at the end of the tunnel, as framed in this thread... is a paycheck.

Danger!

Keep in mind, it has been heavily researched and "making more money" past a certain point is not going to save you from burnout, enable you to truly enjoy your job, or make you happy.

I hope the light at the end of the tunnel is finishing training being able to practice precisely the type of medicine in the way that I feel is best for the patient population I like best.

Choose your specialty content carefully, medical students.

180k or 300k... it doesn't really matter. Do what you enjoy.

What content have you chosen, just out of curiosity?

 

[Mad Jack]

is the 258k base pay before tax right?

In America it's almost always expected that pay is reported pre-tax, because post-tax pay is widely variable based on your life circumstances and tax avoidance strategies