After your rotation, is it appropriate to call up a patient out for drinks?

[DrAwsome]

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There's a big difference between romantic relationships and "any type of relationship".

Doctors are not supposed to have non medical relationships with patients. Not sure why people are pretending like it's normal to have social relationships/friendships with patients here.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I'm not sure what you mean? What's the WOW for????

I don't know what you mean. Romantic relationships between doctors and patients are forbidden. You date/go out with your patients?

The WOW is because this statement is so far off the OP's orginal question. Of course you don't have romantic relationships with patients. That's not what this thread was asking. I do rural medicine and I see patient's every day after hours at the movies, at the store, at the bar. We all sit together and talk, really impossible to not be involved outside of clinic. Otherwise I would be sitting at home by myself every day. Generally I just act like I have never seen them in clinic nor do I give the impression to others who may be present that I have seen any given individual. Of course if a medical question comes up I just say, "you will need to see me in the office for your concern".

An example is I went to the movies with one of the office staff who invited one of her friends to come along. It turned out that I had just seen her friend in the office earlier that week for an issue and taken care of her sick kids. I think it would be rude to not sit with my friend because her friend was a patient. Believe me it would be all over the towns facebook page had I sat somewhere else in the room stating, "I can't sit by you because you are a patient". That just wouldn't fly. The conversation was completely non-medical.

Another example is I was expected to go to the hospital and clinic Christmas parties. I have seen most of the nursing staff, their families, and a majority of the clinic staff for acute issues. So I can't go to a company event because I have seen much of the staff as patient's too? I would have to live in a bubble, this town is way too small. My current job is on an island so everybody knows everybody. I just don't acknowledge who I have seen as a paitient so no one is uncomfortable because it's not anyone's business.

 

[KnuxNole]

Doctors are not supposed to have non medical relationships with patients. Not sure why people are pretending like it's normal to have social relationships/friendships with patients here.

What if you live in a small town? Even in a bigger city, let's say you run into them at a party, and have a nice 15 min convo and they wanna invite you to hang out with some friends on another day. There's nothing wrong with accepting that. After all, you're still a regular person;.

 

[DrAwsome]

What if you live in a small town? Even in a bigger city, let's say you run into them at a party, and have a nice 15 min convo and they wanna invite you to hang out with some friends on another day. There's nothing wrong with accepting that. After all, you're still a regular person;.

I did not say it's wrong to say hello to your patients or to run away from them if you see them in a social setting. I don't think it's appropriate or makes sense to "hang out" with them otherwise. You don't have regular friends or something? Who needs to hang out with their patients? I think it's super awkward. Of course we are regular people, but I don't think it's normal to hang out with your doctor and I think it's typically frowned upon, particularly if the person is of the opposite sex.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I did not say it's wrong to say hello to your patients or to run away from them if you see them in a social setting. I don't think it's appropriate or makes sense to "hang out" with them otherwise. You don't have regular friends or something? Who needs to hang out with their patients? I think it's super awkward. Of course we are regular people, but I don't think it's normal to hang out with your doctor and I think it's typically frowned upon, particularly if the person is of the opposite sex.

This is off topic, but now that "Draw Something" is such a popular gaming app, does it make you regret your screen name at all?

 

[DrAwsome]

This is off topic, but now that "Draw Something" is such a popular gaming app, does it make you regret your screen name at all?

1-I have no idea what Draw something is
2-I like my screen name just fine
3-I don't really see how they are related

Maybe it's an off day for me or something and I'm missing something but don't really get it either 😕

 

[SpecterGT260]

1-I have no idea what Draw something is
2-I like my screen name just fine
3-I don't really see how they are related

Maybe it's an off day for me or something and I'm missing something but don't really get it either 😕

its an app on iphones, ipad, and android devices. You draw pictures and your friends who also have the app guess what it is you drew. Kinda like pictionary. When you get a right answer it doesnt say "awesome", it says "Drawsome!"
Basically I just now realized that your name is Dr-Awesome and not Draw-some 😳

carry on.

 

[KnuxNole]

I did not say it's wrong to say hello to your patients or to run away from them if you see them in a social setting. I don't think it's appropriate or makes sense to "hang out" with them otherwise. You don't have regular friends or something? Who needs to hang out with their patients? I think it's super awkward. Of course we are regular people, but I don't think it's normal to hang out with your doctor and I think it's typically frowned upon, particularly if the person is of the opposite sex.

I do, but would be open to make new friends all the time. It would seem sucky to be isolated by people who wants to invite you to BBQs, birthday parties that they are having.

 

[DrAwsome]

its an app on iphones, ipad, and android devices. You draw pictures and your friends who also have the app guess what it is you drew. Kinda like pictionary. When you get a right answer it doesnt say "awesome", it says "Drawsome!"
Basically I just now realized that your name is Dr-Awesome and not Draw-some 😳

carry on.

🙂 I figured something didn't quite add up. I have not heard of it, but will check it out nevertheless

 

[Perrotfish]

Doctors are not supposed to have non medical relationships with patients. Not sure why people are pretending like it's normal to have social relationships/friendships with patients here.

You're not allowed to have a relationship with a CURRENT patient, no one is arguing that. An ex-patient is more of a legal/ethical grey area, that's what the argument is about, or what it was about origionally anyway.

 

[Law2Doc]

What if you live in a small town? Even in a bigger city, let's say you run into them at a party, and have a nice 15 min convo and they wanna invite you to hang out with some friends on another day. There's nothing wrong with accepting that. After all, you're still a regular person;.

It was qualified very early on in the discussion that small town medicine poses unique problems and the lines of patient/friend/family get blurred significantly, but that that doesn't make the situation all right when we are not talking about a small town. when the whole town is your patient, separating your worlds isn't always possible. Doesn't make it a good idea, but in exceptional situations there are exceptions. Nobody is saying a doctor has to be a hermit, hiding in his house hoping to see no one while he is away from work. just saying that to the extent one can separate your work and social life that is always the preferred and ethically kosher approach. And again, where worlds do collide, as will happen in a Small town, the doctor has to be cognizant of the fact that his patients are always going to see the doctor hat, and there will be some expectation that you will continue to act in that role to the extent a patients well being is at stake. you can't just go along with a patient who wants to smoke and do shooters, because your professional credibility gets shot, and you tacitly end up endorsing unhealthy behavior.

if you are talking to a patient, even outside of the office setting, you never really get to just be a "regular person" to them, if you first met them in the patient setting. It's a hat that doesn't come off.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I'm not sure it's fair to say that something in a city is "not OK" yet the same behavior in a small town is "OK" because it's unavoidable. If the argument is that being someone's physician and friend at the same time is an ethical conflict, then that conflict exists in all locations.

My personal take on this is somewhat different. There is no question that being someone's physician and friend at the same time is a potential conflict. It raises the possibility of "issues" -- such as those mentioned above in this thread. You have to consider whether getting an ice cream with your overweight friend is "acceptable". You need to firewall your clinical knowledge of the person when in public. What will you do if you see your recovered alcoholic patient/friend drinking alcohol? What will you do if you have a husband/wife couple as patients and friends, and one discloses to you that they are cheating on the other?

These are all ethical dilemmas that you MAY face. If you do face them, then you will need to address them. Like most ethical dilemmas, there's no easy answer (else it wouldn't be a dilemma, would it?).

One way to solve these types of dilemmas is to avoid them completely, by separating your friends and patients. This may or may not be possible given each person's clinical practice. Or, you can simply deal with them as they come up.

From a legal standpoint, it's "safer" to separate the two if possible. But it's not really a black and white issue. It's not "wrong" to be friends with a patient, and you might certainly become friends with someone who started as your patient and you don't have to fire them because of it. The key is: 1) are both of you comfortable with your dual relationship roles, and 2) can you remain objective about the care of the individual? The problem with this is that it's often impossible to assess your own objectivity, hence I usually recommend to residents / colleagues that someone impartial who knows both people do so.

I mentioned before (and will mention again) that anything romantic between a doc and patient is not acceptable at any time. of course, where friendship stops and romance starts is a grey zone and is the physician's responsibility to manage.

So, it's easier to treat your patients as clients. But, I can tell you from personal experience, it's much more fulfilling to be friends with your patients. Although there is always the risk of some ethical conflict which you need to watch for (and can get you into big trouble), there also can be huge benefits for both the physician and the patient.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

So, it's easier to treat your patients as clients. But, I can tell you from personal experience, it's much more fulfilling to be friends with your patients. Although there is always the risk of some ethical conflict which you need to watch for (and can get you into big trouble), there also can be huge benefits for both the physician and the patient.

This is where I am at, with one important caveat. I do genuinely take an interest in many of my regular patients' well-beings outside of the immediate medical issue, and have no problem interacting with them if I bump into them at the store. It shouldn't be a case where I avert my gaze and mumble a hello while hurrying past. Hairstylists, attorneys, bartenders and pharmacists all will get to know some of their regulars beyond the business at hand, and I don't see why it should be different for physicians.

The caveat is that a patient who becomes a friend will always be different than a friend who becomes a (temporary) patient. I doubt I could ever just go have a drink with the former, as opposed to the latter. However, I would never write for narcs for the latter, as opposed to the former.

 

[Poetic Silence]

Someone call Patch Adams.

 

[Taurus]

For non-sexual reason?
Today, I met a patient whose parents were neighbors to my grandparents.
They were all diplomats back in the days hence a simple conversation today revealed about this coincidence.

I kinda just want to meet up with him to chat about our ancestries. Patient offered his phone number but I declined. We are both male heterosexual. Is that appropriate to call him up?

This would be naive and foolish move. You may be opening a can of worms. You don't know how crazy people can be until too late. I wouldn't even add them as friends on Facebook.

 

[michaelrack]

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