Allowing Internationally qualified dentists to practice in USA

[anayyar]

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Peace!

Attached is my letter to the editor that was published in NMDA journal for July/August. If more internationally qualified dentists would come up & write letters & articles to the major publications or at least write a letter of support to the editor of this journal ([email protected]) so may be our voices will be heard and at least one more state will have opportunities for us. They can also write letter of suport to the NM dental board ([email protected]) by referring to my letter.

If there is any question, please contact me through this route.
Thanks,

 

[herodontist]

A very well thought-out letter, kudos! 👍

 

[swetha_dentist]

great thread

 

[minnu_m]

Have you thought about the impact of allowing internationals to practise on dental students in US and internationals who have gone thorugh DDS 2 years here. Don't get me wrong,I'm not trying for any turf protection.I'm a student like you who have got 87% on second try in NBDE paper based jULY 17TH and even thinking of writing NBDE once again.Don't you think such a scenario will lead to market being flooded with dentists. How do you expect a dental student in US with 200k+ loans to compete professionally with a dentist like me who have 0 loans if internationals were allowed to practice.If there is a shortage of dentists, the solution would be to start more dental schools.I don't think ADA will entertain such proposals.

Does Minnesota allow us to practise without additional requirements???

 

[dentwannabe]

Not only would this lead to a saturated market, lowering income for EVERYONE, but it would lead to MANY people going overseas and going through a "shortcut" to practice in the U.S.A.

There are several people who wonder if its possible to get a dental degree overseas because they didn't get into a U.S. school. The only thing that deters these people from actually carrying out their plan is when they realize that its very competitive to get in as an "advanced standing" student. I have respect for advanced standing students in that they have worked very hard to get where they are. But I don't think they should take that 2-3 years of dental education away. Or the consequences could be dire.

 

[anayyar]

For MN borad requirements, please visit http://www.dentalboard.state.mn.us/...onallyEducatedDentists/tabid/130/Default.aspx

They want you to prove that your degree is equal to ADA accredited dental degree through ICA and also they want you to pass ADA accrdited INfection Control course. You must also be practicing dentistry.

I DO NOT SEE that the medical graduate market is being saturated by offering USMLE!!!!!!!! IN fact now more qualified medical graduates are in the market becacause of the competition.

 

[anayyar]

The market is NEVER going to be saturated as there will be more qualified people coming up. I would refer you to go the website of Community Voices & read an article on "where are all the dentists gone?" & you will know the shortage issue. FYI- NM ranks 49th in 50 states on USA in Dentist Patient ratio. Majority of dentists here are more than 40 yrs of age. Majority of the practicing dentists are retiree from others states..

Remember that the internationally educated dentists will stil have to go through the immigration criteria which will never allow the market to get saturated.

FYI- last year 5 dental schools closed in USA because of lack of enrollments due to high tuition fee.

When the internationally educated medical gradutes are serving well then why not dental graduates, specially when they are coming from same ADA non-accredited institutions????????????

Does anybody in this forum feel sympathy for those internationally educated dentists who are bright students, good dentists, but can't afford cost of international student tuition or may be do not have dental schools in their states or sometimes end up going to dental assisting programs or hygiene programs are made to go through all pre-requisites just becasue the schools in this country are Naive to understand the international education system??

I don't understand what made them believe that the international instituitions do not have any accreditation standards.

FYI- California Dental Board has accrdited a dental school in Mexico. What dou think how much tuition will those Mexican be paying and again what is the surety that they will get visa/ immigration to USA???

 

[BlueToothHunter]

There are several ways of getting a US state dental license apart from going through the US dental school. You can get specialty training and get board certified and this will allow you to apply for a license in some states.

Getting an admission to an advanced standing program may give you an improved chance of getting a license in any state, but the competition will be hard. There are so many foreign dentists who come over to the US with hopes of keeping their dream alive but there are already people here with similar goals. Usually it ends up being the "survival of the fittest" in this game of admissions. Unless that particular dentist was a refugee from a war-torn country, most dentist-immigrant in the US will be here as economic-migrant (or following a family who had a job in the US). Because most economic-migrants are here on their own accord, sometimes it is hard to justify why the foreign/international graduate dentist has a right to work in the US especially so if they hadn't/couldn't pass their necessary exams. But this is perhaps getting too off the tangent.

The old argument "we need more dentists because there aren't any dentists in rural country" does not work in my opinion. There is a disparity of dental workforce distribution. The urban areas are always more saturated than the rural aras. Simply adding more international dentists would mean that after a couple of years, they too will join the urban dental workforce. Things will never change...

 

[BlueToothHunter]

FYI- California Dental Board has accrdited a dental school in Mexico. What dou think how much tuition will those Mexican be paying and again what is the surety that they will get visa/ immigration to USA???

California Dental Board accrediting the dental school in Mexico was a hot issue last year. Each individual state may change/enact their laws to allow foreign trained dentists to work, but they can also revoke/repeal their acts and prevent the same foreign dentists to work. (I've experienced this first hand in the East Coast in one of the states.)

When the original poster wrote "FTD should be allowed to practice in the USA", this was implying that the ADA or CODA should allow FTDs to work by virtue of accrediting the foreign institution. Now, may be a state dental board may consider this from time to time, but a national accreditation body going overseas to accredit a foreign dental school? I'm not a US person, but I think most US dentists would be appalled at this idea.

FTD's should be given a chance to work in the US, I agree. But this doesn't necessarily mean that FTDs should argue that they have a "right" to work or to have their education acreditted as equivalent to the US dental graduates. Of course, high tuition fees are something that's hard to swallow. But then if you are not here permanently then probably the best option is to pursue the specialty training option, or AEGD/GPR, and then going through faculty recruitment. There is no clear cut answers and I am only voicing my opinion just like the rest of you. If you agree or do not agree, feel free to do whatever you want. 😴

 

[toothomania]

Hi all,
I too feel bad for the situation of all the foreign graduated dentists coming to US [I'm one too] coz I think this is the only medical profession where we have to study the whole thing all over again[after a very tough entry to a dental school].First comes the study part to enter a school,then all the 2-4 yr study part and the loans & of course all this time of our life!
Actually we r doing the same thing which we did in our own countries-we followed the same syllabus,books,treatment plans etc,etc.How abt medical doctors[FT}?They study in their country,take the exam,get into any residency program and after 3 yrs they r doctors!Everything is different here for them like treatment plan,certain diseases,drugs etc,compared with their own countries.Still they directly get into it.its the same with other professions like nursing,pharmacy etc.But its only these FTD's who have to go thru all the studies!
I don't know if its only me who thinks this way,but sometimes I feel bad in coming here as a dental professional! 🙁

 

[muberrymolar]

Does anybody in this forum feel sympathy for those internationally educated dentists who are bright students, good dentists, but can't afford cost of international student tuition or may be do not have dental schools in their states or sometimes end up going to dental assisting programs or hygiene programs are made to go through all pre-requisites just becasue the schools in this country are Naive to understand the international education system??

coming to practice dentistry in the USA is not a right,there is nothing like international student tuition in most dental schools,every body pays the same amount.
majority of people in dental school pay the high tuition through loans which they have to pay back in 30 years.
US dentistry is the most non discrminatory in the world,the laws are simple and straight forward.its probably easier for an FTD to get practice dentistry here than in your country.
i was a FTD and now i am amassing large amounts of debt to get into the system,should i have pity for your whinning......i dont think i should
when in rome do like the romans,why dont u study hard and try getting into an AS program instead of this pity party

 

[minnu_m]

For MN borad requirements, please visit http://www.dentalboard.state.mn.us/...onallyEducatedDentists/tabid/130/Default.aspx

They want you to prove that your degree is equal to ADA accredited dental degree through ICA and also they want you to pass ADA accrdited INfection Control course. You must also be practicing dentistry.

I DO NOT SEE that the medical graduate market is being saturated by offering USMLE!!!!!!!! IN fact now more qualified medical graduates are in the market becacause of the competition.

I know very well the problems faced with international dentists because i'm one of them. But none of comparisons or options suggested are realistic or even fair to american dentists or people in PASS programs.

Comparisons with USMLE is not at all right. Medical graduates require a specialization called residency after medical degree. Specialization done in home country is never accepted in US.Not all doctors can come and practise after passing USMLE. Doctors have to undergo compulory training (residency) after USMLE exams. Demand supply ratio is maintanied by residency positions. Number of doctors needed is equivalent to number of positions offered by residency. Same way number of dentists needed is equivalent to number of DDS positions. Shortage of doctors is addressed by increasing residency positions.Shortage of dentists should be addressed by starting dental schools.Any other option is not fair to US dental students or people in PASS program. I would think all US dental schools will shut down if ADA approves international programs since even US students will go and get a degree from outside directly after High School without doing undergrad paying high fees etc.

Now coming to your option of practise under dentist or training after NBDE requirements.I have been going to CASE Western for last 6 months to boost my resume observing a dentist. That training is in no way comparison to training of a DDS student.In fact i can only observe and is not allowed to do anything else.There are some fellowship programs in Case which are very easy to get into. and fee is 6k.In fact they offered me to come in even though i did not apply. That program is in no way comparison to DDS in Case especially the clinical training.If that program was made equivalent to DDS with clinical training, the program will be as costly as DDS and as competitive as PASS programs.

UK had a similar requirement allowing all doctors to come and practise after passing PLAB.You know what happened.. Every one was coming there and getting degree.Finally they banned all internationals except europeans.If internationals could write NBDE and then practise here, not just people already here but there will be a huge rush of dentists into this country.Today NBDE can be taken anywere in world. So what is stopping people from taking NBDE from any place and applying for dental positions. Coming to immigration requirement, I assume you are talking about people here who are not permanent residents or citizens since you talked about poor students.People who have PR's and citizens are eligible for federal loans and should have no problem. People who are here with no PR or citizenship need an H1 to practise.Their immigration requirement is no different from person writing NBDE outside US.

I have seen DDS students in Case. There is no way i can be compared to them. If i just pass NBDE and practise here i could even take up a job for 40k or even less.There will many people like me who will take up such jobs driving salary down.How can people who took 200k+ loans compete with me and get jobs???How do they repay their loans??There are lot of international students even here who have got 90%+ and even did 2 year DDS. Is it fair if i can practise after passing part 2??? I don't think so.If my 87% is not good enough, i have no option but improve.If there is a shortage for dentists, the only option is to start more dental schools here not any short cuts.Even for ordinary DDS there are tons of americans who apply after taking and meeting all requirements like undergrad degree relevant credit etc.Not all make it.Same way all students who come here are in no way entitled to any special right to practise.It is always survival of fittest.US is a capitalist country.Socialist crusades in name of poor etc especially for people who are not citizens do not hold much water here.

Don't take anything personally and this is my last post on this topic.I'm in same boat as anyone. But our personal cases are not reason enough to make policies that affect hard working students.