Alternative to medicine?

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DocBoudreau

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Since i graduated from high school, medicine has always been the objective. But i am now starting to have some doubts in this career path. I don't know if i am ready for the trauma that is medical college and working as a physician/surgeon. I do have the GPA/EC to get in but i don't know if i have the right motives to pursue this career anymore. What alternatives are out there for a high achieving science student (does not have to be health related)? Any advice into other professions would be appreciated.
 
a scientist! phd -> postdoc -> faculty. its a tough process though
 
Since i graduated from high school, medicine has always been the objective. But i am now starting to have some doubts in this career path. I don't know if i am ready for the trauma that is medical college and working as a physician/surgeon. I do have the GPA/EC to get in but i don't know if i have the right motives to pursue this career anymore. What alternatives are out there for a high achieving science student (does not have to be health related)? Any advice into other professions would be appreciated.
Research
Teaching
Nursing
Pharmacist
Physician Assistant
Pharmaceuticals
 
I have considered research/academia but these do not have the same security as medicine especially in these economic times. From what i know of Pharm (which is very little so feel free to enlighten me) it seems rather redundant.
 
I have considered research/academia but these do not have the same security as medicine especially in these economic times. From what i know of Pharm (which is very little so feel free to enlighten me) it seems rather redundant.
pharmacist
or pharmaceuticals?

Pharmaceuticals is engaging and interesting if you're allowed some of the responsibilities I have. Working in toxicology has its benefits as we offer significant advice to teams about how much their compounds suck based on numerous evidence and trying to develop better assays to successfully predict in-vivo outcomes using in-vitro models. It's statistics, gene expression, assay design/refinement, formulations (chemistry) all together into one package. The more you work up, the more interaction you develop with team members. You deal with a lot of biology/chemistry and it's allowing you to apply your knowledge of biology and critical thinking skills together.

Pharmacy is dependent upon WHERE you do pharmacy. Retail pharmacy can get redundant, as I have seen, but to each his own.

I mean, security is all in how hard you work.
 
I have considered research/academia but these do not have the same security as medicine especially in these economic times. From what i know of Pharm (which is very little so feel free to enlighten me) it seems rather redundant.

Then what are you left with?
 
Podiatrist?
Physical Therapist?
Chiropractor?
Public Health Admin?
 
Pharmacy is usually the path people take who like to avoid: too much-too hard schooling and trauma. It's laid back, not that hard, and "clean".
 
Have you considered professional sports?
 
I have considered research/academia but these do not have the same security as medicine especially in these economic times.

That's because no matter how sucky the economy gets, people aren't going to stop getting sick. You aren't going to find that kind of job security in any other field.

If that's your driving factor, then you need to either suck it up and apply for medical school, or lower your standard you are willing to accept in terms of job security.
 
That's because no matter how sucky the economy gets, people aren't going to stop getting sick. You aren't going to find that kind of job security in any other field.

If that's your driving factor, then you need to either suck it up and apply for medical school, or lower your standard you are willing to accept in terms of job security.

unless u wanna be sucking it up for the rest of your life i wouldnt worry so much about job security.
 
You can become a Medical Technologist. It requires a bachelor's degree, and apparently they're going to be in really high demand in the coming years, so you shouldn't have much issue finding a job. It does mean another intensive year of school (well, not necessarily school, but non-paid work), but they can be pretty well respected.

You could also become a rad tech, a respiratory tech, any number of different techs in the hospital setting. All those would have job security.

You can become a dietician; that requires a master's degree.
 
Anyone considering medicine (especially as a physician) should think long and hard about their choice. You should spend plenty of time shadowing multiple phsycians to see what they do for a living and if it is in fact something you would be interested in.

Secondly, a lot of us get into medicine with altruistic motives. Money is actually a secondary consideration. As you go through the training process, most accumulate (unless you're independently wealthy or get a scholarship) a large amount of educational debt. With the big push for some type of nationalization of healthcare, most people that I've talked to, that I consider to be a lot smarter than me, think that it will ultimately lead to lower salaries across the board for physicians. The current administration is promoting many socialized medicine type ideas to fix the current healthcare system.

What does this mean for us? Well, if you look at what physicians make in other countries that have some form of socialized medicine, and compare that to here......the difference is quite striking. I saw a salary survey for a cardiologist in Canada last week in which the avg salary is around $110k Canadian. Based on current currency conversion rates, multiply that x about 1.2 and you would have the US equivalent, or approx $132k US. Good money, but when compared to what US cardiologists make currently (i've seen ranges from $300k to $1 mil), it is remarkably telling what socialized medicine will mean. Think about whether you are willing to spend 4 yrs of undergrad, 4 yrs of medical school (5 at some schools like Case Western), and 3 yrs at a minimum in residency to end up making that type of salary.

Your friends who choose business, and do an MBA or something of that sort, will be making more than you by the time you finish residency if they work smart and hard. I've got a friend that I graduated high school with who did 4 yrs undrgrad, 2 yrs for MIS, and is now making $250k. I'm still in training making $40k, and have $250k in loans to pay off. Not to mention, I have essentially had no life for the past 9 yrs.

Do I love what I will be doing? Yes, but I feel more bitter each and every day about how many hours I have worked/will have to work, and now am facing the possibility of making much less than someone with much less education while working twice as hard. I'm wondering if I'll be able to pay off my loans.

If you think about all of that, and are ok with the prospects of what may come for physicians, then I wish you the best. I am too far invested to turn back now. Would I have done anything different had I known what i know now.....I might would've went to nusring school instead and become a nurse practitioner. They will end up making the same amount of money as physicians and have essentially the same autonomy with a lot less time invested, and a WHOLE lot less debt.
 
I saw a salary survey for a cardiologist in Canada last week in which the avg salary is around $110k Canadian. Based on current currency conversion rates, multiply that x about 1.2 and you would have the US equivalent, or approx $132k US. Good money, but when compared to what US cardiologists make currently (i've seen ranges from $300k to $1 mil), it is remarkably telling what socialized medicine will mean. Think about whether you are willing to spend 4 yrs of undergrad, 4 yrs of medical school (5 at some schools like Case Western), and 3 yrs at a minimum in residency to end up making that type of salary.

The Canadian dollar is inflated. C$5 is equal to less US$... $4 seems about appropriate. So $110k Canadian is about $94K US.
 
Nurse (RN, CNA, LNP, CRNA, DNP, etc.)
Dentist (pursue a residency or cut and run after 4 years and be a general dentist)👍
Dental hygenist
Dental Assistant
Physician Assistant (most of the perks of a doctor w/o residency)
Any form of medical tech
Paramedic
Podiatrist
Optometrist (not to be confused with optho which requires med school + residency)
Researcher
Physical therapist
Psychologist (not to be confused with psychiatry which involves med school + residency)

Many fields in medicine, not all of them requiring an MD/DO.
 
Engineering has employment stability and is a very different job environment than medicine. There are fields of engineering for people interested in bio, chemistry, physics, computer science...pretty much any field of science.
 
Anyone considering medicine (especially as a physician) should think long and hard about their choice. You should spend plenty of time shadowing multiple phsycians to see what they do for a living and if it is in fact something you would be interested in.

Secondly, a lot of us get into medicine with altruistic motives. Money is actually a secondary consideration. As you go through the training process, most accumulate (unless you're independently wealthy or get a scholarship) a large amount of educational debt. With the big push for some type of nationalization of healthcare, most people that I've talked to, that I consider to be a lot smarter than me, think that it will ultimately lead to lower salaries across the board for physicians. The current administration is promoting many socialized medicine type ideas to fix the current healthcare system.

What does this mean for us? Well, if you look at what physicians make in other countries that have some form of socialized medicine, and compare that to here......the difference is quite striking. I saw a salary survey for a cardiologist in Canada last week in which the avg salary is around $110k Canadian. Based on current currency conversion rates, multiply that x about 1.2 and you would have the US equivalent, or approx $132k US. Good money, but when compared to what US cardiologists make currently (i've seen ranges from $300k to $1 mil), it is remarkably telling what socialized medicine will mean. Think about whether you are willing to spend 4 yrs of undergrad, 4 yrs of medical school (5 at some schools like Case Western), and 3 yrs at a minimum in residency to end up making that type of salary.

Your friends who choose business, and do an MBA or something of that sort, will be making more than you by the time you finish residency if they work smart and hard. I've got a friend that I graduated high school with who did 4 yrs undrgrad, 2 yrs for MIS, and is now making $250k. I'm still in training making $40k, and have $250k in loans to pay off. Not to mention, I have essentially had no life for the past 9 yrs.

Do I love what I will be doing? Yes, but I feel more bitter each and every day about how many hours I have worked/will have to work, and now am facing the possibility of making much less than someone with much less education while working twice as hard. I'm wondering if I'll be able to pay off my loans.

If you think about all of that, and are ok with the prospects of what may come for physicians, then I wish you the best. I am too far invested to turn back now. Would I have done anything different had I known what i know now.....I might would've went to nusring school instead and become a nurse practitioner. They will end up making the same amount of money as physicians and have essentially the same autonomy with a lot less time invested, and a WHOLE lot less debt.

Cardiologists in Canada make WAY more than 110K. 110K would be much more likely for a family doctor (and I think they make a bit more than this. maybe 130K). While salaries are lower up here, its not THAT bad. I think Cardiologists up here make at least 250K (and thats a conservative estimate).
 
Cardiologists in Canada make WAY more than 110K. 110K would be much more likely for a family doctor (and I think they make a bit more than this. maybe 130K). While salaries are lower up here, its not THAT bad. I think Cardiologists up here make at least 250K (and thats a conservative estimate).

Here's the link to the salary info that I was referring to. Decide for yourself.

http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Physician_/_Doctor,_Cardiologist/Salary
 
The Canadian dollar is inflated. C$5 is equal to less US$... $4 seems about appropriate. So $110k Canadian is about $94K US.

Sorry. My friend is correct. i had it backwards. 1 Canadian dollar = approx .0856 US Dollars based on the conversion rates for today.

So it is actually worse than I said earlier.
 
I have considered research/academia but these do not have the same security as medicine especially in these economic times. ...

Do not go into mediicine due to "security" or just because you have the stats to get in. The ONLY reason to go into medicine is if it interests and excites you to the point that it's a career you think you will enjoy doing 60+ hours/week every week for the next 40 years. Because if you go into it for any other reason, it's going to become unbearable very quickly. It's a path that takes very long to get to a nice income, is more demanding than many fields, it's emotionally taxing, sometimes depressing and isolating, and during your training you are likely to be sleep deprived and abused for many years. Nobody wants to put themselves through this unless it's what you really really really want to do, and not for any other reason. For the right person (and that includes many folks on here, I hope) it's a fantastic job. For anyone else it's a nightmare with a few nice perquisites that hardly offset the insanity you put yourself through.

So if you are "having some doubts" you really need to do more soul searching, shadowing, maybe take a year off to get your head together. You don't want to jump into this path unless you are fairly sure it's what you want to do. It's very expensive to switch later.
 
Anyone considering medicine (especially as a physician) should think long and hard about their choice. You should spend plenty of time shadowing multiple phsycians to see what they do for a living and if it is in fact something you would be interested in.

Secondly, a lot of us get into medicine with altruistic motives. Money is actually a secondary consideration. As you go through the training process, most accumulate (unless you're independently wealthy or get a scholarship) a large amount of educational debt. With the big push for some type of nationalization of healthcare, most people that I've talked to, that I consider to be a lot smarter than me, think that it will ultimately lead to lower salaries across the board for physicians. The current administration is promoting many socialized medicine type ideas to fix the current healthcare system.

What does this mean for us? Well, if you look at what physicians make in other countries that have some form of socialized medicine, and compare that to here......the difference is quite striking. I saw a salary survey for a cardiologist in Canada last week in which the avg salary is around $110k Canadian. Based on current currency conversion rates, multiply that x about 1.2 and you would have the US equivalent, or approx $132k US. Good money, but when compared to what US cardiologists make currently (i've seen ranges from $300k to $1 mil), it is remarkably telling what socialized medicine will mean. Think about whether you are willing to spend 4 yrs of undergrad, 4 yrs of medical school (5 at some schools like Case Western), and 3 yrs at a minimum in residency to end up making that type of salary.

Your friends who choose business, and do an MBA or something of that sort, will be making more than you by the time you finish residency if they work smart and hard. I've got a friend that I graduated high school with who did 4 yrs undrgrad, 2 yrs for MIS, and is now making $250k. I'm still in training making $40k, and have $250k in loans to pay off. Not to mention, I have essentially had no life for the past 9 yrs.

Do I love what I will be doing? Yes, but I feel more bitter each and every day about how many hours I have worked/will have to work, and now am facing the possibility of making much less than someone with much less education while working twice as hard. I'm wondering if I'll be able to pay off my loans.

If you think about all of that, and are ok with the prospects of what may come for physicians, then I wish you the best. I am too far invested to turn back now. Would I have done anything different had I known what i know now.....I might would've went to nusring school instead and become a nurse practitioner. They will end up making the same amount of money as physicians and have essentially the same autonomy with a lot less time invested, and a WHOLE lot less debt.

I do have to respectfully disagree with Bojack in regards to his/her salaray claims under a single-payer system (which Obama's plan is not). Check this out: http://student.pnhp.org/content/what_about_physician_salaries.php
 
I do have to respectfully disagree with Bojack in regards to his/her salaray claims under a single-payer system (which Obama's plan is not). Check this out: http://student.pnhp.org/content/what_about_physician_salaries.php

As with any "study," which this is not, you have to look at who funded it and their possible motivations. This particular article happens to be put together by a group that is lobbying for a national healthcare system.....says it in their name - Physicians for a National Healthcare Program. since they are lobbying for Nationalized healthcare, I wouldn't consider anything that they put together to compare the two as credible. I mean look at their reference list in the article. The very first reference is the AAMC graduatiung student questionaire. How would a graduating student know anything about it?

Also, I'll point you to this:

Medical professionals

Some of the extra money spent in the United States goes to doctors, nurses, and other medical professionals, all of whom receive higher compensation than their counterparts north of the border. According to health data collected by the OECD, average income for physicians in the United States in 1996 was nearly twice that for physicians in Canada.
Ref: Healthcare Systems: An International Comparison. Strategic Policy and Research Intergovernmental Affairs, May 2001


If healthcare costs are to decrease in this country, where do you think that decrease will ultimately come from? Hospitals and physicians. That's where most who don't know think that's where the bulk of the excess is. Don not disillusion yourself into thinking that our pay will not decrease. 3 of my fellow residents are from Canada, and they came to the US because of the pay issue.



One of our faculty members DOUBLED his salary by coming across the border to practice in an academic center in the US, and he is not a specialist....he is in a primary care specialty.....in an academic center. I certainly don't have first hand knowledge, but I've talked to 4 people now who do have first hand knowledge of the difference, and that's why they came to the US. My sense of worry comes from their anxiety over what "nationalizing our healthcare system" will mean.


Finally, there are many ideas that Obama is tossing around. One of them in fact is a single-payer system. He's also tossing around the idea of a public sector insurance plan open to the public, as well as others. The point is, no one knows what he is ultimately going to do. With unchecked power in the house and senate, he can do just about whatever he wants for now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared#cite_note-58
 
Anyone considering medicine (especially as a physician) should think long and hard about their choice. You should spend plenty of time shadowing multiple phsycians to see what they do for a living and if it is in fact something you would be interested in.
That's what she said
Do not go into mediicine due to "security" or just because you have the stats to get in. The ONLY reason to go into medicine is if it interests and excites you to the point that it's a career you think you will enjoy doing 60+ hours/week every week for the next 40 years. Because if you go into it for any other reason, it's going to become unbearable very quickly. It's a path that takes very long to get to a nice income, is more demanding than many fields, it's emotionally taxing, sometimes depressing and isolating, and during your training you are likely to be sleep deprived and abused for many years. Nobody wants to put themselves through this unless it's what you really really really want to do, and not for any other reason. For the right person (and that includes many folks on here, I hope) it's a fantastic job. For anyone else it's a nightmare with a few nice perquisites that hardly offset the insanity you put yourself through.

So if you are "having some doubts" you really need to do more soul searching, shadowing, maybe take a year off to get your head together. You don't want to jump into this path unless you are fairly sure it's what you want to do. It's very expensive to switch later.
THANK you. Security is such an over-used and ridiculous expression that it seems like almost a made-up reason to NOT go any other route in science. The pharmaceutical industry is always in demand for scientists. You may hear about layoffs, but it's usually non-research/lab oriented people such as technicians or people cleaning lab coats.
 
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