always a dilemma

[qtpie055]

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hey everyone. i was just wondering if any of you guys can throw out ANY information that might help or shed some insight/hope.

I've been accepted to medical school on an offer i really can't refuse. Plus, financially, I am able to get government loans here in the States which, being a non-EU citizen, I would not be able to get any in the UK. But, I really can't see myself living in the States in the future. I really would love to live and work in the UK (it actually feels more like home if that makes any sense?). I know it's a difficult process but when would be a good time to even attempt to move over to the UK? After med school before residency? after residency? ANY information would be helpful. Thanks!!

 

[dirtymac42]

hey everyone. i was just wondering if any of you guys can throw out ANY information that might help or shed some insight/hope.

I've been accepted to medical school on an offer i really can't refuse. Plus, financially, I am able to get government loans here in the States which, being a non-EU citizen, I would not be able to get any in the UK. But, I really can't see myself living in the States in the future. I really would love to live and work in the UK (it actually feels more like home if that makes any sense?). I know it's a difficult process but when would be a good time to even attempt to move over to the UK? After med school before residency? after residency? ANY information would be helpful. Thanks!!

Where are you going to attend med school? The USA? If so, i would complete all my schooling and training there and then attempt to move to the UK. It's quicker doing it in the US and the rule of thumb is that American training is pretty much accepted anywhere (even Canada.... well, usually... hahah).

If you did get into a UK med school and really want to go there, you can get loans to go over there, especially if you have a cosigner. Try IEFC.com.

good luck.

 

[qtpie055]

Where are you going to attend med school? The USA? If so, i would complete all my schooling and training there and then attempt to move to the UK. It's quicker doing it in the US and the rule of thumb is that American training is pretty much accepted anywhere (even Canada.... well, usually... hahah).

If you did get into a UK med school and really want to go there, you can get loans to go over there, especially if you have a cosigner. Try IEFC.com.

good luck.

yea i got into med school in the US. it's an offer i really can't refuse since I got exempt from the MCATS. but if i didn't get this offer, i would probably try to apply to a UK med school.

 

[deleted21609]

Many times the way a place is when you imagine it or visit it is not the same as the reality. I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that the UK feels like home. I'm only writing this because I had roommates who loved Ireland and decided to move there after 2 weeks, then they couldn't wait to go home after two months. Not that it wasn't still great, but it ended up not being for them. If your view of the UK is well founded, then cool. If not, you could still try it out there and see what you think. At the end of the day it's a personal decision and I don't mean to discourage yours, only to warn you that you may change your mind before you make a huge commitment.

If you really know that you'll want to stay in the UK, then you might as well apply for medical school there (depending possibly on the cost difference between the UK and your US school). Otherwise you can go to med school in The States, do an intern year, then apply for HO jobs in the UK. If that doesn't work you can continue your residency in the US and apply for jobs afterward. It'll be hard to get over there for med school, HO jobs, or higher level jobs, so you might want to increase your chances by applying at each stage.

If you go to school in The States, you could do several months of electives in the UK in your fourth year. It'd let you know wat it's really like to live there (if you don't already know) and might help your HO job applications down the road.

 

[qtpie055]

Many times the way a place is when you imagine it or visit it is not the same as the reality. I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that the UK feels like home. I'm only writing this because I had roommates who loved Ireland and decided to move there after 2 weeks, then they couldn't wait to go home after two months. Not that it wasn't still great, but it ended up not being for them. If your view of the UK is well founded, then cool. If not, you could still try it out there and see what you think. At the end of the day it's a personal decision and I don't mean to discourage yours, only to warn you that you may change your mind before you make a huge commitment.

If you really know that you'll want to stay in the UK, then you might as well apply for medical school there (depending possibly on the cost difference between the UK and your US school). Otherwise you can go to med school in The States, do an intern year, then apply for HO jobs in the UK. If that doesn't work you can continue your residency in the US and apply for jobs afterward. It'll be hard to get over there for med school, HO jobs, or higher level jobs, so you might want to increase your chances by applying at each stage.

If you go to school in The States, you could do several months of electives in the UK in your fourth year. It'd let you know wat it's really like to live there (if you don't already know) and might help your HO job applications down the road.

Hi student.ie,

Thanks for the advice. I hope my desire to live in the UK is well-founded. I lived abroad there for a little more than a year and really want to go back. I've been back in the States for about 2-3 months now and I'm thinking the UK just fits better. I think financially, I'm better off staying here for medical school just because the government loans here have lower interest an will give me more coverage (Plus i'm already in!). I'm already looking into doing electives in the UK during my fourth year. I already see that my school has a 1 month elective at Imperial College in London. I'm hoping, if i can do that, it would lead me to connections or find people that can direct me into future possibilities. I was reading new work/immigration sites which said it's quite hard for Non-EU doctors to come over and work. Is it true? Plus, I can't seem to find much info about the process of transferring over.

I'm relatively new to this part of the board. Student.ie, are/were you a student in the UK? Thanks for all the advice.

 

[deleted21609]

Cool, a year is a significant amount of time at least. The elective in 4th year is a good start, but you could arrange other electives without a specfic affiliation between the schools. The number of electives abroad that will count toward a US degree may be limited (?), but you could do as many as they allow.

You could get the same US loans to use at schools in the UK, so that's not really an issue.

I didn't go to the UK. I went to Ireland. I've posted extensively on this forum trying to discourage people from going or at least to make them have a realistic view of what they're doing. This was for people planning to return to the US though. If you're planning to move, the situation is totally different. Think hard though because the novelty wears off and your preference may change. If you go to med school in the states, you could easily return to a residency here after working in the UK. You'd pretty much have to start over with your training, but it'd be doable. Going to med school in the UK would definately forward your goal of living there, but would limit your options in the States down the road. That's why this is such a big decision.
US school = keeps your options open but decreases your shot in the UK
UK school = better prospects in UK, but worse prospects in US if you should want to return

 

[qtpie055]

Cool, a year is a significant amount of time at least. The elective in 4th year is a good start, but you could arrange other electives without a specfic affiliation between the schools. The number of electives abroad that will count toward a US degree may be limited (?), but you could do as many as they allow.

You could get the same US loans to use at schools in the UK, so that's not really an issue.

I didn't go to the UK. I went to Ireland. I've posted extensively on this forum trying to discourage people from going or at least to make them have a realistic view of what they're doing. This was for people planning to return to the US though. If you're planning to move, the situation is totally different. Think hard though because the novelty wears off and your preference may change. If you go to med school in the states, you could easily return to a residency here after working in the UK. You'd pretty much have to start over with your training, but it'd be doable. Going to med school in the UK would definately forward your goal of living there, but would limit your options in the States down the road. That's why this is such a big decision.
US school = keeps your options open but decreases your shot in the UK
UK school = better prospects in UK, but worse prospects in US if you should want to return

Thanks again, student i.e. All very helpful.

Yea, i heard Stafford Loans from the US are usable for schools in the UK, but (correct me if i'm wrong), you can't get as much out for it if you studied in the UK vs. studying in the states. With tuition costs for both schools ranging about $30,000-$40,000 a year, I think I read that you can only get about $15,000 a year for schools in the UK.

I'm trying to be more realisistic. If i was more spontaneous i guess, I would definitely be trying to apply to schools in the UK. But you are right. It is hard and a big decision. It is a really a lot easier for me to just stay in the US through residency with hopefully electives abroad. I feel like it would be very difficult first a) getting into medical school in the UK b) living costs/tuition c) after training- finding a job with non EU status and d) decrease possibility of working in the US. Is it me, or do I feel like (from what I gathered reading from other posts) that getting a US degree will lead me to wider options versus getting a UK degree. Getting a US degree does not kill my shots of working in the UK but getting a UK degree and trying to practise in the US would be extremely difficult.

 

[deleted21609]

Thanks again, student i.e. All very helpful.

Yea, i heard Stafford Loans from the US are usable for schools in the UK, but (correct me if i'm wrong), you can't get as much out for it if you studied in the UK vs. studying in the states. With tuition costs for both schools ranging about $30,000-$40,000 a year, I think I read that you can only get about $15,000 a year for schools in the UK.

I'm trying to be more realisistic. If i was more spontaneous i guess, I would definitely be trying to apply to schools in the UK. But you are right. It is hard and a big decision. It is a really a lot easier for me to just stay in the US through residency with hopefully electives abroad. I feel like it would be very difficult first a) getting into medical school in the UK b) living costs/tuition c) after training- finding a job with non EU status and d) decrease possibility of working in the US. Is it me, or do I feel like (from what I gathered reading from other posts) that getting a US degree will lead me to wider options versus getting a UK degree. Getting a US degree does not kill my shots of working in the UK but getting a UK degree and trying to practise in the US would be extremely difficult.

I think the Stafford loans are for $18500 wherever you go. You get other loans in addition to the Staffords in the US or UK.

I don't know anyone who'd tried to go to the UK after graduating from a US school, but I'm sure it happens. The advantage for you if you go from US med school to UK training is that the UK training starts with broad areas then specialty training comes later. That way if you want to do ENT for example, you start gen surg and you're still on track because all ENTs have to start with gen surg (as I understand the UK training schemes anyway, others on here know this part better than I do). If you go to a UK school, you could still apply for ENT in the States, but you probably wouldn't get it and any other training (after intern year) would not be moving you forward with your goal of being an ENT. You'd probably just never do what you want or you'd do gen surg for 5 years and start over your residency in ENT afterward. That would be a pretty horrible pathway to ENT. (for all you know you'll want to be a family doc in the end, and then you'd have no problem as a US or UK grad, but you won't know that until it's too late.)

It's not that it's extremely difficult to practice in the US after getting a UK degree, I'm sure it's easier than getting to the UK with a US degree for a non-EU citizen, but it's extremely difficult to get into the more competitive specialties in the US if you went to med school abroad. (in the place of ENT above you could insert ortho, derm, plastics, neurosurg, rad onc, ophtho, etc. they're a lot of things you'd have a VERY hard time getting from abroad)

It sounds like you've decided to go to the US school anyway, so this stuff doesn't matter. For what it's worth, I think that's the right decision considering everything I know, but your own feelings are a huge part of the decision and obviously I can't take them into account.

 

[qtpie055]

i believe (from my financial guide at my med school), the maximum borrowing is $38,500/yr from Federal Stafford Loan here in the states. definitely needed for private tuition...booo.

good luck with everything and thanks for all the help. hopefully i can make it one day (not too late) across the pond!