http://www.apta.org/VolunteerGroups/TaskForce/RCs411Thru1211/
Lotsa changes coming up
This isnt good for PTAs 🙁
Lotsa changes coming up
This isnt good for PTAs 🙁
Amending the direction and supervision of the PTA
- Thread starter TooCool
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Hm.... not a lot of information, but with the way the economy is and how everyone is cutting back, it would make sense to try to re-structure the PT/PTA relationship... However, one would think that businesses would prefer to hire more PTAs since they are cheaper, than PTs, even though PTs would have way more knowledge...
Interesting, wish there was more information than just that tiny blurb.
Interesting, wish there was more information than just that tiny blurb.
I work with a few people who went to the House of Delegates and it was quite the debate from what I hear (not in a bad way though)... From what I understand the moral of the story is to allow aides/techs to be able to do more pt care (it currently differs state-to-state; in OR aides are allowed to perform modalities and direct exercises after proper training, in other states that is not allowed). This would allow ATC's, Message Therapist, etc. to be hired as aides in order to become more involved in pt care b/c they have more training (I'm assuming for more $ than they pay aides now). The PTA's feel that this would be encroaching on their turf and would make them less valuable. The PT's (or the ones supporting this idea) feel that this would allow clinics to increase the number of pt's per day without decreasing the quality of pt care that they provide (and maybe even increasing it) b/c the PT's would do the eval (and progress note visits), then come up with the plan of care that the PTA would direct while utilizing an aide, like a PT would a PTA.... that's what I got out of talking with the PT's who were at the debate.
Sorry if this explanation seems confusing, but I do not fully understand the concept as I was obviously not there and have only talked intermittently about it with the PT's who were.
Sorry if this explanation seems confusing, but I do not fully understand the concept as I was obviously not there and have only talked intermittently about it with the PT's who were.
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Yohan, thanks for the information. What you say makes sense... as a PT, you want to be able to push patients through (to some extent... it won't help if you are the best PT in the world and only see 1 patient a day; some pushing has to be done), but they don't want the quality of care to suffer by taking on more patients.
So, by hiring people as "aides" who have some type of experience, like ATC as you mentioned, they are making a smarter choice than choosing Sally Joe off the street who has never stepped foot in a clinic before and doesn't know what the tibia is.
No wonder this makes PTAs angry, it could encroach upon their job duties, but the truth of the matter is that a clinic/hospital/etc cannot simply hire all PTs-- it would cost way too much plus then you have a "too many chiefs, not enough indians" situation that could get ugly dependent on peoples' personalities.
So, by hiring people as "aides" who have some type of experience, like ATC as you mentioned, they are making a smarter choice than choosing Sally Joe off the street who has never stepped foot in a clinic before and doesn't know what the tibia is.
No wonder this makes PTAs angry, it could encroach upon their job duties, but the truth of the matter is that a clinic/hospital/etc cannot simply hire all PTs-- it would cost way too much plus then you have a "too many chiefs, not enough indians" situation that could get ugly dependent on peoples' personalities.
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Quite frankly, all of this stuff seems like a cipher out of the Davinci Code. I'm thinking about going into politics after DPT school 🙄! At the end of the day, I am almost certain it is about the "cash monies!" Not that we don't want to continue improve reimbursement and compensation for our services, but you just get the sense that someone is going to lose in the end! I sincerely hope I am wrong!
It's most definitely about the "cash monies"! IMO, the APTA, knowing that PT's need to make more money to justify the DPT, is pushing this b/c it is a quicker solution for PT's to make more money. They (the powers that be) realize increasing reimbursement is going to take a while, so in the mean time they are looking for a way to increase the number of pt's. So, instead of more $$ per pt they want to increase the number of pt's per day to make more $$.
Disclaimer: this is just an opinion and could change with more knowledge/facts of the issues at hand... haha
Disclaimer: this is just an opinion and could change with more knowledge/facts of the issues at hand... haha
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Pretty much took the words out of my mouth. Look, nobody is guaranteed or promised anything(that includes money), yet the compensation across the board could be better. That is for new grads all the way up to ppl who have been doing this thing for 30yrs+! It's been said that "you are worth the capital you can generate!" To generate more capital, we might have to see more patients. I think my chief concern at the moment is where we delineate the lines if we are working along side these "aides" who might be other movement specialists. There is already a great deal of crossovers between Physical therapists and other health/fitness professionals(i.e. ATCs, personal trainers, PTAs, massage therapists, etc). There has to be a clear line of who we are and the services and care we can offer, exclusive of any other professional in the movement professions! Otherwise, the powers that be will think, "We can hire these other guys/gals at a fraction of the price. Why pay a new grad DPT 70-75K when we can pay these other guys/gals 40-45K to do the same thing?"
It seems I was a little misleaded as to the main goal of this motion. After posting in this thread I talked a little bit about this subject with an elected APTA official. He was telling me that the scenario I posted above was not the goal. Instead, it is to work in more of a team environment, where the PT is the "head coach" and the PTA's and other support staff (ATCs, personal trainers, massage therapists, etc.) are the "assistant coaches." For instance, a PT will have 4-6 pt's/hr on their schedule instead of 1-3/hr. Then each support staff will be working with the pt's while the PT roams around and monitors the progress of the pt's, perform duties specific to PT's as necessary (ie. evals, joint manipulations, etc.), and even can "coach" the support staff on how to better treat their pt if they see room for improvement. It will also put more "heads" on each pt for brainstorming purposes in case of difficult cases. Now, this is just a simple example, but I think you get my drift. It's gonna be more like how a medical doctor's office works (ie. the MA takes you to a room and measures your height, weight, vitals, etc., then the doctor comes in and evaluates you, then the nurse will take your blood for lab testing if needed or explain what medication to take and when; but the Dr. is ultimately responsible for the pt and makes all the decisions regarding the treatment).
This is where the PTA's are worried that they will get lumped in with the other support staff. So the APTA is encouraging them to demonstrate their value, which they can do by continuing to challenge and progressively educate their students on the entire scope of PT. Then they will be able to take on any pt (neuro, athletes, women's health, lymphadema, etc.), whereas an ATC will only work with athletes, personal trainer will only work with strengthening, message therapists will only work with lympadema, etc.
Essentially it's the same idea that was stated above. More pt's per hour/day equals more money, but this way the patient care doesn't suffer and possible could increase b/c the PT is still involved with each pt's plan of care on every visit instead of evaluating and then sending them off for 4-6 visits before seeing them again. That is important because the PT is ultimately responsible for each of their pt's progress throughout the treatment. Also I think this will increase the value of the PT in health care, specifically rehabilitation, which could help increase reimbursements. This will also help delineate the lines among PT's and the other health/fitness professionals because they are the "head coach" of the team and will be the only ones with the skills (learned throughout the DPT program) that are specific to physical therapy.
I could keep going but I think that is long enough for tonight 😎
This is where the PTA's are worried that they will get lumped in with the other support staff. So the APTA is encouraging them to demonstrate their value, which they can do by continuing to challenge and progressively educate their students on the entire scope of PT. Then they will be able to take on any pt (neuro, athletes, women's health, lymphadema, etc.), whereas an ATC will only work with athletes, personal trainer will only work with strengthening, message therapists will only work with lympadema, etc.
Essentially it's the same idea that was stated above. More pt's per hour/day equals more money, but this way the patient care doesn't suffer and possible could increase b/c the PT is still involved with each pt's plan of care on every visit instead of evaluating and then sending them off for 4-6 visits before seeing them again. That is important because the PT is ultimately responsible for each of their pt's progress throughout the treatment. Also I think this will increase the value of the PT in health care, specifically rehabilitation, which could help increase reimbursements. This will also help delineate the lines among PT's and the other health/fitness professionals because they are the "head coach" of the team and will be the only ones with the skills (learned throughout the DPT program) that are specific to physical therapy.
I could keep going but I think that is long enough for tonight 😎
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My concern has been> hire one PT who supervises multiple PTAs who provide the direct service. Why not? This could be bad for both the PTAs and PTs. As long as the PT is doing the evals and plans........
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I like the sound of this, actually. It would seem like something like this would work if Direct Access without physician referral mandates came into play. I know this already exists, but it is still not the norm across the board! It sounds like the clinic would be running over though.
4-6 patients an hour x 8-10 hours/day x 6-10 therapists at a clinic plus PTAs, ATCs, Massage therapists and the support staff😱! I still like the idea in theory though!
I think it is important to remember that the APTA is merely an advocacy organization, and not a legislative body. So state law still dictates what PTs can supervise. In AZ, for example, we (PTs) can supervise 3 supportive personnel at one time. So nothing the APTA discusses will affect that until the state changes the laws.
I'm a PT aide right now, and have been since January. I can honestly say I'm doing everything the PT/PTA's tell me to with their patients. I'm the one performing therapy about 50% of the time. Now I don't have the knowledge of what I'm doing yet, what it is beneficial for, or what to do next, but I'm still doing everything that licensed professionals are doing.
Considering I'm getting $10 an hour, I'm surprised they don't hire more of us freshly-out-of-college students to do all of their dirty work 😛.
But to be fair, I honestly can some of the PTA's I work with know more than some of the older PT's.
Considering I'm getting $10 an hour, I'm surprised they don't hire more of us freshly-out-of-college students to do all of their dirty work 😛.
But to be fair, I honestly can some of the PTA's I work with know more than some of the older PT's.
I agree, it's a good theory, but definitely needs some ironing out.
Very true! But you have to start somewhere; kind of like direct access.
I understand the point you are trying to make, but you should still understand that you are not doing everything a licensed professional is doing (and if you truly are, then those "professionals" are doing their profession an injustice) b/c you are not evaluating nor performing manual therapy, joint manip's, etc. I also agree that there are some very knowledgeable PTA's out there (I work with a couple), but if a DPT program is doing their job, a PTA should not have more knowledge than a PT. Now if you are talking about an older PT who doesn't challenge their self with continuing ed, etc., well then, I could see that.
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