An atypical path to the MD/PhD program

[FutureNeuroStud]

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I thought it might benefit some people to give an account of my roundabout path to get to the MD/PhD program at my school.

I considered applying to MSTP programs during my AMCAS cycle, but wasn't sure if I really wanted to devote the extra time to get the PhD. Some of my prior mentors told me that it wasn't necessary to have a PhD to do research as a doctor. Bottom line...I stuck to MD.

When I got to medical school, I found several mentors/friends (including a PhD in my class) with whom I discussed my interests and prior decision not to apply to MD/PhD programs. One of them, in particular, really thought I had made a mistake. So...I decided I'd talk to the MD/PhD director at my school to see if there was anyway I could enter the program, anyway. He said there was and gave me the positives and negatives (in his opinion, which I happened to agree with) of doing so.

Negatives:
- The school had a limited amount of funding and could not fund my endeavor.
- 3+ extra years in graduate school before MSIII.

Positives:
- Getting a PhD opens more doors down the road, in both research and residency choices.
- Getting extensive research training in a field of special interest could be quite enjoyable for those 3+ extra years.
- My field of special interest (neuroscience) makes it easier to obtain extramural funding (NRSA F30 grant).
- Even if I don't obtain extramural funding for both the MD and PhD years, my dept would fund my PhD years.

There are more, but those are the important ones I gave consideration to. After consulting my future wife (we're getting married this summer), I decided to apply. I got accepted a few days ago and I plan to file my application for the F30 grant in April, in hopes of getting funded for my remaining years in medical/graduate school. I couldn't be happier with my decision and the outcome.

Key point: if you get to medical school in the MD program and decide you also really want to do the PhD, as well...talk to your MD/PhD program director and find out what your options are.

Key point: I did NOT apply to any MD/PhD or MSTP programs through AMCAS. I don't think my path would be a viable option for someone who did apply to such programs and simple did not get in.

 

[gbwillner]

I thought it might benefit some people to give an account of my roundabout path to get to the MD/PhD program at my school.

I considered applying to MSTP programs during my AMCAS cycle, but wasn't sure if I really wanted to devote the extra time to get the PhD. Some of my prior mentors told me that it wasn't necessary to have a PhD to do research as a doctor. Bottom line...I stuck to MD.

When I got to medical school, I found several mentors/friends (including a PhD in my class) with whom I discussed my interests and prior decision not to apply to MD/PhD programs. One of them, in particular, really thought I had made a mistake. So...I decided I'd talk to the MD/PhD director at my school to see if there was anyway I could enter the program, anyway. He said there was and gave me the positives and negatives (in his opinion, which I happened to agree with) of doing so.

Negatives:
- The school had a limited amount of funding and could not fund my endeavor.
- 3+ extra years in graduate school before MSIII.

Positives:
- Getting a PhD opens more doors down the road, in both research and residency choices.
- Getting extensive research training in a field of special interest could be quite enjoyable for those 3+ extra years.
- My field of special interest (neuroscience) makes it easier to obtain extramural funding (NRSA F30 grant).
- Even if I don't obtain extramural funding for both the MD and PhD years, my dept would fund my PhD years.

There are more, but those are the important ones I gave consideration to. After consulting my future wife (we're getting married this summer), I decided to apply. I got accepted a few days ago and I plan to file my application for the F30 grant in April, in hopes of getting funded for my remaining years in medical/graduate school. I couldn't be happier with my decision and the outcome.

Key point: if you get to medical school in the MD program and decide you also really want to do the PhD, as well...talk to your MD/PhD program director and find out what your options are.

Key point: I did NOT apply to any MD/PhD or MSTP programs through AMCAS. I don't think my path would be a viable option for someone who did apply to such programs and simple did not get in.

Thanks for the story... Good luck to you. I've seen this happen more frequently over the past few years, and my institution has been taking 1-2 students this way/year. Once in MD it is easier to get into the MSTP at your institution, but it is by no means guaranteed. I had a friend who did a year of research after MSII and tried to get into the MSTP program but was NOT accepted. He joined grad school anyway (without the extra funding).

 

[Neuronix]

The truth is that just about any medical school will let you take years off to get a PhD and come back. Most medical schools will probably be okay with you doing the PhD anywhere you want as well--like the NIH for example for you NIHophiles. The PhD is always paid for in biomedical science.

This MD/PhD thing has almost always been about how to get the money to pay for medical school expenses. Though it is nice that if properly integrated it probably does save you a year or even two of time. Still, how many of us would still do MD/PhD if there wasn't funding? My guess is <10%, and I include myself as someone who wouldn't have gotten the PhD. Those of you who do the PhD or MD and go into research anyways without MD funding (op, QofC, etc) are a hardcore bunch and you get my kudos.

Good luck with your F30, feel free to post in our NINDS F30 thread 🙂

 

[FutureNeuroStud]

Well...I've decided to do it, regardless. There's a chance that I won't get funding for any of my MD years, but my neurobio department fully funds all PhD students, so I'm not really adding any cost to my training (mind you I don't have unsubsidized Stafford loans to factor into that).

Thanks for the well-wishes on the NINDS F30.

 

[Neuronix]

(mind you I don't have unsubsidized Stafford loans to factor into that).

How'd you swing that? Isn't the subsidized Stafford loan cap $8,500/year? Even with a full scholarship that wouldn't cover your expenses.

 

[xanthines]

Is this a school-dependent thing? At my reasonably respectable institution, this seems to rarely happen. The one person I heard of, decided against the PhD after a pretty short period (<1 year, I think), so maybe it left a bad taste in the program's mouth. Not sure.

-X

I've seen this happen more frequently over the past few years, and my institution has been taking 1-2 students this way/year. Once in MD it is easier to get into the MSTP at your institution, but it is by no means guaranteed.

 

[Neuronix]

Is this a school-dependent thing?

Absolutely. At some schools it's forbidden, at others it's very rare (only in exceptional cases), and at some it is relatively common (>50% of those who apply). Here it's about one person a year who switches in from the medical school class, and the MD/PhD director towards the beginning of medical school makes a pitch to the medical school students for those interested to come talk to him. There were actually 3 who switched from MD to MD/PhD in my year.

 

[gbwillner]

Is this a school-dependent thing? At my reasonably respectable institution, this seems to rarely happen. The one person I heard of, decided against the PhD after a pretty short period (<1 year, I think), so maybe it left a bad taste in the program's mouth. Not sure.

-X

Let's face it- its more difficult to get into the MD than the PhD program. Once the first is no longer an issue, reasonable candidates SHOULD stand a fair chance- it's more of a matter of them wanting to do it.
My institution is definitely reputable, and many applicants for the MD already have ample research experience. Some are unsure of the extra time commitment or have frankly not heard about the program before sending out applications. Some do an extra research project and decide it's the path for them.
I agree that this is probably school-specific because of funding issues. If your program had some extra funding lying around, they may be more likely to take additional students after matriculation than another program that only has 4 funded slots and no internal MSTP funding.

 

[FutureNeuroStud]

How'd you swing that? Isn't the subsidized Stafford loan cap $8,500/year? Even with a full scholarship that wouldn't cover your expenses.

The only money I'm borrowing to pay for medical school is the $8500/yr maximum for subsidized Stafford loans.

 

[Neuronix]

The only money I'm borrowing to pay for medical school is the $8500/yr maximum for subsidized Stafford loans.

I'm still confused. How are you paying for whatever you need to pay for medical school and your cost of living expenses on $8,500/year?