Anesthesia: Yale vs. Cleveland Clinic

[propofol15]

Trying to get a better perspective of these two programs as we are getting closer to rank list season. I would appreciate any additional advice on their anesthesiology departments from residents, graduates, or anyone with more information. Couldn't find any good recent posts.

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[deleted171991]

Thank you in advance (*also this isn't my first post, made a new account to maintain anonymity; my other was too revealing)

You expect others to come out of anonymity and help you, but you protect yours? 😉

 

[ProEra]

From my perspective as an applicant, the Cleveland Clinic residents were some of the happiest I've seen during interview season. Got a chance to see/meet dozens over the course of preinterview dinner and during interview day.

 

[Steege305]

Yale: I thought that it was a good program. The residents that I met seemed pretty happy for the most part. I met one CA-3 that felt overworked, but that was the exception, and my impression was that he/she had some other life things going on. The curriculum was impressive and they had research opportunities for days. Honestly, the only drawback for me was New Haven, but you're also looking at Cleveland so this might not be as much of an issue for you. I would add that Yale has more name recognition for whatever that's worth - and if you want to practice in a competitive location it may be worth a lot.

 

[propofol15]

I would add that Yale has more name recognition for whatever that's worth - and if you want to practice in a competitive location it may be worth a lot.

This is one thing that I am trying to decide how much stock I should put in when making my rank list in general. The "Yale name" obviously carries a lot of weight and has the ivy wow factor. But would the Cleveland Clinic not similarly open up as many doors for competitive practices/ fellowships?

 

[Quixotic2501]

I think it's important to note that this isn't undergrad anymore. While you can probably impress people at your high school reunion that you studied anesthesiology at Yale, CCF has comparable name recognition in the medical community. In my very uneducated opinion, CCF > Yale.

 

[deleted171991]

I just love all this talk by users with 2-3 posts. 🙂

 

[gasdoc77]

I think it's important to note that this isn't undergrad anymore. While you can probably impress people at your high school reunion that you studied anesthesiology at Yale, CCF has comparable name recognition in the medical community. In my very uneducated opinion, CCF > Yale.

Which one will get the prom queen (back) in your bed at the aforementioned reunion?

 

[deleted171991]

Which one will get the prom queen (back) in your bed at the aforementioned reunion?

Being against the flu vaccine. 😀

 

[gasdoc77]

Being against the flu vaccine. 😀

But not against Gardasil.

 

[nimbus]

Being against the flu vaccine. 😀

And gluten and dairy free.😉

 

[propofol15]

I just love all this talk by users with 2-3 posts. 🙂

thank you to those with useful commentary, I appreciate it regardless of how many (useless) posts you have under your belt

 

[ProEra]

Anyone have opinions regarding location of the two programs: Cleveland vs New Haven?
Obviously New Haven's a short drive from New York and Boston, but I doubt I'll be interested in traveling during my free day after working a full week in residency.

 

[deleted171991]

Also look at the climate, housing, cost of living vs salary, entertainment and direct flights (for vacation and fellowship interviews) in each area.

A day in New York is more than doable from New Haven (two hours by train). Also there are beaches close. I can't tell you about Cleveland; I haven't visited Ohio. Does it snow enough there so that one needs winter tires, or at least AWD?

 

[Biochemist21]

IMHO, Cleveland is a very underrated city. I say this having grown up in a much larger city. It has all the amenities of a larger city, it just doesn't have two dozen of each. The biggest downside having lived there is that public transportation is not helpful for anything other than trips to the airport (for which it works great). The city is very neighborhood-centric, each neighborhood having it's own quirks, shops, and independent restaurants. Basically everything is about 10min from everything else, but there's a ton to explore. Fortunately there's very little traffic outside of the 4-5p hour, so getting around in a car is simple (just watch out for the traffic cameras which outnumber the entire Ohio state population).

Also look at the climate, housing, cost of living vs salary, entertainment and direct flights (for vacation and fellowship interviews) in each area. A day in New York is more than doable from New Haven (two hours by train). Also there are beaches close. I can't tell you about Cleveland; I haven't visited Ohio. Does it snow enough there so that one needs winter tires, or at least AWD?

It's rather cloudy from Nov-March, and while it snows frequently, it also melts frequently, so rarely do you have more than 6in of snow on the ground at any given time, although AWD wouldn't hurt 😛 (and hasn't New England already received like 6ft of snow in winter 2015? ). Like I said above, depending upon how far you want your commute to be, you can live in dozens of different communities, none of which fit the mold of stereotypical "cookie-cutter suburbs." Many attendings live in Pepper Pike, Shaker Heights, or Lakeview, all of which can get you to the hospital in under 25min on a bad traffic day. Most residents live closer in either Cleveland Heights or the emerging downtown district. If you know you'd be miserable if you weren't within a train ride of the 3rd most populous city in the Western hemisphere, then by all means go to New Haven. As far as the beaches, there is a fairly large pond on the northern boundary of the city.

 

[IkeBoy18]

ohio is..... yikes.. .. If choosing between these two, I would have to choose NH. Way too much cold, not enough sun in Ohio. Of course I have a lot of friends and interests in NYC and on the east coast in general. I would like to be in a city (or have easy access to one) that has many options for entertainment and recreation.

Where will you be traveling to the most regardless of residency?

 

[ProEra]

Here are some stream of consciousness notes I took after my interview day. General impressions and whatnot.

Cleveland Clinic:

20 residents per year- Categorical
Integrated curriculum: Anesthesia months starting in Intern year
2 months Anesthesia orientation
2 months General Anesthesia rotations
15 days vacation
$1000 book fund
$1200 conference fund
Meal fund that is filled every 6 months
Outside rotations:
1 month OB at Hillcrest hospital
1 month Trauma at Metrohealth

Relatively weak pediatric program compared to other subspecialties (as per residents I talked to at preinterview dinner)
Anesthesia-led SICU
Weekly didactic lectures on Thursdays for 1.5 hours
Clinical research institute: 3 months elective time for research in CA3 year if interested
Cheap cost of living- $1 per square foot
Residents relieved at 5 pm daily (repeatedly emphasized by several residents)
If there are many rooms still running and you are asked to stay past 5:30, you are paid $60/hr
Moonlighting beginning in CA2 year
No 24 hour call on weekdays. Weekday call from 4 pm – 7 am with post call day off
24 hour weekend call
Strong match list into fellowships
Chairman of anesthesia retiring in June 2015
Benign intern year. Very low expectations for interns when starting their year
Progressively harder hours/call from CA1-CA3
Residents appeared happy with workload
Residents appeared older/with most married and have families

 

[Biochemist21]

Here are some stream of consciousness notes I took after my interview day. General impressions and whatnot.

Cleveland Clinic:

20 residents per year- Categorical
Integrated curriculum: Anesthesia months starting in Intern year
2 months Anesthesia orientation
2 months General Anesthesia rotations
15 days vacation
$1000 book fund
$1200 conference fund
Meal fund that is filled every 6 months
Outside rotations:
1 month OB at Hillcrest hospital
1 month Trauma at Metrohealth

Relatively weak pediatric program compared to other subspecialties (as per residents I talked to at preinterview dinner)
Anesthesia-led SICU
Weekly didactic lectures on Thursdays for 1.5 hours
Clinical research institute: 3 months elective time for research in CA3 year if interested
Cheap cost of living- $1 per square foot
Residents relieved at 5 pm daily (repeatedly emphasized by several residents)
If there are many rooms still running and you are asked to stay past 5:30, you are paid $60/hr
Moonlighting beginning in CA2 year
No 24 hour call on weekdays. Weekday call from 4 pm – 7 am with post call day off
24 hour weekend call
Strong match list into fellowships
Chairman of anesthesia retiring in June 2015
Benign intern year. Very low expectations for interns when starting their year
Progressively harder hours/call from CA1-CA3
Residents appeared happy with workload
Residents appeared older/with most married and have families

This is super-nitpicky, but the SICU is actually an "intensivist-run closed unit," meaning that it is staffed by both anesthesiologists and surgeons, but all attendings have completed critical care fellowships. That cost of living is pretty spot-on though.

 

[Biochemist21]

Old Rory Gilmore method: take a piece of paper, make two columns for each option, Pros and Cons. 😛

👍

 

[painmd87]

Cons: No regular sodas as CCF. Coke Zero products only. Even at the in-house McDonalds, Moe's and Subway.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

Cons: No regular sodas as CCF. Coke Zero products only. Even at the in-house McDonalds, Moe's and Subway.

You can get regular real sugar sodas at the in house ABP, which is open 24/7. In house Starbucks open til midnight
True, that the SICU is led by both anesthesia and surgical critical care attendings but the vast majority are anesthesia, including the director

 

[Hockeyguy]

The biggest tool I ever worked with was a guy from the Cleveland Clinic. If you wind-up going there promise us one thing - if/when you get in private practice don't tell people stories everyday of how they did things "at the clinic" no-one cares.

 

[anbuitachi]

Here are some stream of consciousness notes I took after my interview day. General impressions and whatnot.

Cleveland Clinic:

20 residents per year- Categorical
Integrated curriculum: Anesthesia months starting in Intern year
2 months Anesthesia orientation
2 months General Anesthesia rotations
15 days vacation
$1000 book fund
$1200 conference fund
Meal fund that is filled every 6 months
Outside rotations:
1 month OB at Hillcrest hospital
1 month Trauma at Metrohealth

Relatively weak pediatric program compared to other subspecialties (as per residents I talked to at preinterview dinner)
Anesthesia-led SICU
Weekly didactic lectures on Thursdays for 1.5 hours
Clinical research institute: 3 months elective time for research in CA3 year if interested
Cheap cost of living- $1 per square foot
Residents relieved at 5 pm daily (repeatedly emphasized by several residents)
If there are many rooms still running and you are asked to stay past 5:30, you are paid $60/hr
Moonlighting beginning in CA2 year
No 24 hour call on weekdays. Weekday call from 4 pm – 7 am with post call day off
24 hour weekend call
Strong match list into fellowships
Chairman of anesthesia retiring in June 2015
Benign intern year. Very low expectations for interns when starting their year
Progressively harder hours/call from CA1-CA3
Residents appeared happy with workload
Residents appeared older/with most married and have families

these are some nice notes. got any other notes about other schools? haha

 

[ProEra]

these are some nice notes. got any other notes about other schools? haha

Unfortunately not. Cleveland Clinic was my first interview, so at the time, I was gung-ho about writing down notes/impressions. But after that, I became too lazy and didnt write a single thing for the rest of the interview trail.

 

[aimedicine]

Cons: No regular sodas as CCF. Coke Zero products only. Even at the in-house McDonalds, Moe's and Subway.

This is so true lmao

 

[kzjb333]

Anyone know CCF's hours as the training progresses? I remember my interview experience and I loved it. My concern was the low hour intern year and CA1 year. A resident said expect more hrs as you progress and by CA2/3 there are no hr restrictions and residents work really hard. Not that I mind too much, but it came off a bit unbalanced. It was an intern that told me all of this.

 

[imfrankie]

"Residents relieved at 5 pm daily (repeatedly emphasized by several residents)"

Guess I'm an old-timer 'cause the only thing I can say to that is, "you've gotta be ****tin me."