AnesthesiaCare

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FutureDoc79

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Anyone have an experience with the management company AnesthesiaCare? I believe it was also once known as Pinnacle Anesthesia. Just finished my first year in PP and our group was informed that the contract was being given to AnesthesiaCare with the idea of still retaining all of us to staff the hospital. Reason behind this choice was increased CRNA costs and some internal leadership issues. I am not surprised by this as we are a small group and I believe not many groups like ours will be able to remain independent in the future. Any information would be helpful.
Thanks
 
FutureDoc79 said:
Anyone have an experience with the management company AnesthesiaCare? I believe it was also once known as Pinnacle Anesthesia. Just finished my first year in PP and our group was informed that the contract was being given to AnesthesiaCare with the idea of still retaining all of us to staff the hospital. Reason behind this choice was increased CRNA costs and some internal leadership issues. I am not surprised by this as we are a small group and I believe not many groups like ours will be able to remain independent in the future. Any information would be helpful.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Find another job.
 
From the AnesthesiaCare website:

AnesthesiaCare puts a premium on the professional development of physicians and CRNAs. We offer a full range of training on cutting-edge technology and advanced procedures that increase patient safety and improve room turnaround times.

Training programs include:
Surgical quality and SCIP measures
Risk management
Malpractice avoidance
Narcotic documentation and security

Specialized topics including:
Difficult airways in obstetrics
Ultrasound-guided nerve blocks
Anesthesia awareness and brain function monitoring
Ventilation

Pretty cool huh? Wish I'd learned how to ventilate patients and slap a BiS on their foreheads during residency...
 
lol..so, increased CRNA costs led to an AMC takeover? Imagine that! CRNAs costing alot. I thought they were the cheaper, kinder, better version of those greedy MDAs? :laugh:


bullard said:
From the AnesthesiaCare website:

AnesthesiaCare puts a premium on the professional development of physicians and CRNAs. We offer a full range of training on cutting-edge technology and advanced procedures that increase patient safety and improve room turnaround times.

Training programs include:
Surgical quality and SCIP measures
Risk management
Malpractice avoidance
Narcotic documentation and security

Specialized topics including:
Difficult airways in obstetrics
Ultrasound-guided nerve blocks
Anesthesia awareness and brain function monitoring
Ventilation

Pretty cool huh? Wish I'd learned how to ventilate patients and slap a BiS on their foreheads during residency...
Click to expand...
 
If we could get more anesthesiologists out there quickly i think the main deterrent to CRNAs would be cost. In my area hourly rates for CRNA are approaching $140 per hour. We cant even break even on their salary during any medicare case.

For allied professionals in general i think increased time of education (ie Masters for PA's and pHDs for advanced nursing degrees, physical therapy etc) are adding increased cost to not only their education but what they expect in terms of salary when they graduate. Unfortunately this doesnt equate into an increase in value. I would hope, but seriously doubt, that the govt would stop supporting govt based loans for such degrees. OVerall i feel they are just pricing themselves out of the market, but that will only occur if more Docs are available.
 
seinfeld said:
If we could get more anesthesiologists out there quickly i think the main deterrent to CRNAs would be cost. In my area hourly rates for CRNA are approaching $140 per hour. We cant even break even on their salary during any medicare case.

For allied professionals in general i think increased time of education (ie Masters for PA's and pHDs for advanced nursing degrees, physical therapy etc) are adding increased cost to not only their education but what they expect in terms of salary when they graduate. Unfortunately this doesnt equate into an increase in value. I would hope, but seriously doubt, that the govt would stop supporting govt based loans for such degrees. OVerall i feel they are just pricing themselves out of the market, but that will only occur if more Docs are available.
Click to expand...

PHYSICIAN ASSISTANT"S IN ANESTHESIA

http://www.anesthesiapa.org/
 
seinfeld said:
If we could get more anesthesiologists out there quickly i think the main deterrent to CRNAs would be cost. In my area hourly rates for CRNA are approaching $140 per hour. We cant even break even on their salary during any medicare case.

For allied professionals in general i think increased time of education (ie Masters for PA's and pHDs for advanced nursing degrees, physical therapy etc) are adding increased cost to not only their education but what they expect in terms of salary when they graduate. Unfortunately this doesnt equate into an increase in value. I would hope, but seriously doubt, that the govt would stop supporting govt based loans for such degrees. OVerall i feel they are just pricing themselves out of the market, but that will only occur if more Docs are available.
Click to expand...

AA's have had master's degrees for 40 years. The original concept was to train a provider at a significantly higher level above the certificate-only CRNA's common in the 70s-80s. PA's have been moving steadily towards master's degrees for many years if they didn't start at that level originally. If you want providers that function at a high level, they're going to have to have the educational background to back it up.

The DNP is a wholly different story (and please, it is NOT the same as a PhD). The DNP is classic degree-creep, and is of little if any benefit in the real world, particularly in anesthesia. It's a twist on the concept of "the more they say it's not about the money - it's the money". The more they say it's not about "Dr. Nurse" - it's about Dr. Nurse.
 
jwk said:
I know you'd like it to happen - but it isn't.
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i know you wo uldnt either.. but it can totally happen just think how many PAS out there woul dbe interested. Just put them in the OR for 13 months. full time.. they would be good to go.
 
It won't be long before AA schools start awarding doctor's degrees. They also think they are just as good as anyone.
 
jwk said:
AA's have had master's degrees for 40 years. The original concept was to train a provider at a significantly higher level above the certificate-only CRNA's common in the 70s-80s. PA's have been moving steadily towards master's degrees for many years if they didn't start at that level originally. If you want providers that function at a high level, they're going to have to have the educational background to back it up.

The DNP is a wholly different story (and please, it is NOT the same as a PhD). The DNP is classic degree-creep, and is of little if any benefit in the real world, particularly in anesthesia. It's a twist on the concept of "the more they say it's not about the money - it's the money". The more they say it's not about "Dr. Nurse" - it's about Dr. Nurse.
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My wife is a PA with only a BS. I see no difference in her or those who graduated with her and their knowledge compared to the master degree trained PAs i work with on a daily basis. At the level you re talking about it comes down to personal attitude toward compiling and applying knowledge.
 
FutureDoc79 said:
Anyone have an experience with the management company AnesthesiaCare? I believe it was also once known as Pinnacle Anesthesia. Just finished my first year in PP and our group was informed that the contract was being given to AnesthesiaCare with the idea of still retaining all of us to staff the hospital. Reason behind this choice was increased CRNA costs and some internal leadership issues. I am not surprised by this as we are a small group and I believe not many groups like ours will be able to remain independent in the future. Any information would be helpful.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Did you lose much equity form your partnership track?

How long was the track? How much was the pay cut?
 
We are a smaller DO community hospital that was bought by a regional health system 2 years ago. My group has held the contract for 20+ years. I did my residency there and was very happy to join the group I trained with. My partnership track was only one year, so I became partner on July 1. We were given 90 notice of non renewal of our contract, but were assured by administration that our group would have equal opportunity to bid on the contract. The only stipend we get is 300 dollars a night to cover the level 2 trauma call. This all stems from CRNA costs, the hospital did not want to pay for them anymore, and unfortunately we need them especially when a resident or 2 is out on specialty rotation. We still do not have a dollar amount for a offer yet, they said within a week. If the offer is decent I will give it a try for 2 reasons.....this is my hometown, all of my wifes and I family is here and we are happy in the area, second I feel like if my partners and I jump ship, the residents will be screwed. At this point still many more questions then answers.... However the CEO of anesthesiacare said there were several more deals in the works in this part of the state, so it seems they are out to take small groups out.
 
FutureDoc79 said:
We are a smaller DO community hospital that was bought by a regional health system 2 years ago. My group has held the contract for 20+ years. I did my residency there and was very happy to join the group I trained with. My partnership track was only one year, so I became partner on July 1. We were given 90 notice of non renewal of our contract, but were assured by administration that our group would have equal opportunity to bid on the contract. The only stipend we get is 300 dollars a night to cover the level 2 trauma call. This all stems from CRNA costs, the hospital did not want to pay for them anymore, and unfortunately we need them especially when a resident or 2 is out on specialty rotation. We still do not have a dollar amount for a offer yet, they said within a week. If the offer is decent I will give it a try for 2 reasons.....this is my hometown, all of my wifes and I family is here and we are happy in the area, second I feel like if my partners and I jump ship, the residents will be screwed. At this point still many more questions then answers.... However the CEO of anesthesiacare said there were several more deals in the works in this part of the state, so it seems they are out to take small groups out.
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Get out while you can. The residents are already screwed. The only reason for the company to keep them around is free labor. Their education is not a priority anymore. BTW if you cover 24 hr trauma and OB and only took 100k/yr the hospital is screwing you already. Why go with a company? Were you 1:2? 1:1? Plan on 1:3. Hearts, heads, vascular, they're not going to care. Good luck teaching while your running around keeping everyone out of trouble. I would disclose this to resident applicants, and if things go down as they likely will, close up shop. Too bad.
 
FutureDoc79 said:
We are a smaller DO community hospital that was bought by a regional health system 2 years ago. My group has held the contract for 20+ years. I did my residency there and was very happy to join the group I trained with. My partnership track was only one year, so I became partner on July 1. We were given 90 notice of non renewal of our contract, but were assured by administration that our group would have equal opportunity to bid on the contract. The only stipend we get is 300 dollars a night to cover the level 2 trauma call. This all stems from CRNA costs, the hospital did not want to pay for them anymore, and unfortunately we need them especially when a resident or 2 is out on specialty rotation. We still do not have a dollar amount for a offer yet, they said within a week. If the offer is decent I will give it a try for 2 reasons.....this is my hometown, all of my wifes and I family is here and we are happy in the area, second I feel like if my partners and I jump ship, the residents will be screwed. At this point still many more questions then answers.... However the CEO of anesthesiacare said there were several more deals in the works in this part of the state, so it seems they are out to take small groups out.
Click to expand...

What state/area are you in? PM if you do not want to disclose publically. Thanks.
 
Check out ESMC- Emcare
Pinnacle Anesthesia, Dallas ,TX
Dr. M Hicks
 
samjamdad said:
Check out ESMC- Emcare
Pinnacle Anesthesia, Dallas ,TX
Dr. M Hicks
Click to expand...

I think Pinnacle's another large ACT model group; Is this considered "advertising?"
 
$140/hour? Let's see..... 140*8=1120/day. That's 5600/week. At 52 weeks, that's $291,000. Seems rather high. Your break-even for Medicare cases would occur at a much lower cost than that, I would think.
If the CRNA did 800 cases/year, at 12 units per case and a Medicare conversion factor of $19/unit, the CRNA/MD combo would gross around $190,000/year before billing costs.
 
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