annoying intern

[ocean11]

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Hey all...

ok so things are going pretty well now in OB/GYN,I"m actually begining to like it, get along with most attendings, residents and nurses. I've learned the protocol and how to be helpful etc etc... theres just this one thing.....

There is this one new intern who NONE of the students can stand (that would be 8 of us). She makes students do scut work 24/7 and NEVER sais please or thank you. Just 'get me this' or 'get me that', I was walking to the photocopy machine to get something out for her and she sais "walk faster faster..." I DO WALK FAST and can't believe she said it to me. Apparently she said this to the other med students on my team too... on a DAILY basis.

Here's the sweet thing... in my program we get to evaluate everything at the end and the director DOES read it... I'm going to crucify her and so are my team members... the question is should we go see the director earlier....? I only have another week and a half of this rotation? or should I just ride it out?

Oh she confided in me (goodness knows why b/c I can't stand her) that she thinks our whole team sucks and that she is going to write poor evals for some of my teammates....... talk about a WITCH!!!!

 

[tkim]

let it go, then rip her to shreds on the eval.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Hey all...

ok so things are going pretty well now in OB/GYN,I"m actually begining to like it, get along with most attendings, residents and nurses. I've learned the protocol and how to be helpful etc etc... theres just this one thing.....

There is this one new intern who NONE of the students can stand (that would be 8 of us). She makes students do scut work 24/7 and NEVER sais please or thank you. Just 'get me this' or 'get me that', I was walking to the photocopy machine to get something out for her and she sais "walk faster faster..." I DO WALK FAST and can't believe she said it to me. Apparently she said this to the other med students on my team too... on a DAILY basis.

Here's the sweet thing... in my program we get to evaluate everything at the end and the director DOES read it... I'm going to crucify her and so are my team members... the question is should we go see the director earlier....? I only have another week and a half of this rotation? or should I just ride it out?

Oh she confided in me (goodness knows why b/c I can't stand her) that she thinks our whole team sucks and that she is going to write poor evals for some of my teammates....... talk about a WITCH!!!!

Go to the director. It is totally inappropriate for her to be "confiding" other student evaluations to you. You can just let this go but that just means the next group of students in going to get screwed. Alot of times clerkship directors have "delayed action" policies where nothing official will happen for several months so the resident cannot pin it on a small group of students. Usually in the interim that resident is prevented from having as much contact with students and is watched more closely by their superiors.

One of the the 2nd year residents on my rotation was particularly malignant to med students and made alot of sexually/ethnically inappropriate comments and I'm pretty sure someone complained. He has been ALOT more mellow the 2nd and 3rd months. Don't fear the power structure so much that people get away with murder.

 

[tkim]

if you go to the director, make damn sure you go as a group.

 

[nabeya]

wow, wasn't she a med student too just a few months ago? Sounds like she is on a power trip and getting revenge for all her miserable days she spent as a medical student.

 

[colbgw02]

if you go to the director, make damn sure you go as a group.

agree with above.

the intern is in an advantageous position here because the clerkship or program director will give the benefit of the doubt to her, so you have to be careful about what you say and how you say it. that goes for end-of-course evaluations as well, because i've heard of students getting comments in direct response to their evaluations (also an OB/Gyn clerkship, coincidence?).

start documenting specific examples of things she says or tasks that she gives you to cite on your evaluation. if your fellow students are so inclined, ask them to do the same and compare at the end so you are presenting a united front.

 

[Paws]

She sounds very familiar ...

Women! We need to be more professional here, and this is coming from a woman myself. I have seen many female interns/residents act like this but I have not yet seen any men behave so inappropriately. I just think people are really pathetic when they act so insecure and mean spirited, but when they are in a position of authority over you - yes, it totally s%cks.

In my experience, other people do see how we all behave and so if she is being like this then I would imagine that nurses, staff and other general people are also observing this. I have another student on the team with me now and she will act like this as well. But I am professional and don't compromise my behavior and in the end I think people can see her for what she is. I think that when people try and push others around in order to look 'big' themselves, they just end up looking small and pathetic.

But yes, Ocean take a group to the right person and just sit down and explain how this situation is not benefiting anyone - least of all the poor woman in question.

 

[nabeya]

She sounds very familiar ...

Women! We need to be more professional here, and this is coming from a woman myself. I have seen many female interns/residents act like this but I have not yet seen any men behave so inappropriately. I just think people are really pathetic when they act so insecure and mean spirited, but when they are in a position of authority over you - yes, it totally s%cks.

I was going to say the same thing but I didn't want to start any conflict in here, but since you said it first, I'll have to say I totally agree.

The only people that have given me problems in my clinical years has been 1 female intern, 1 female scrub tech, and 1 female circulating nurse. It just seemed as if they had a chip on their shoulder and they were getting revenge on the world. 👎

 

[DebDynamite]

She sounds very familiar ...

Women! We need to be more professional here, and this is coming from a woman myself. I have seen many female interns/residents act like this but I have not yet seen any men behave so inappropriately.

Paws,
I promise that men do this too. I am a woman and a male intern scutted me for two days straight last week. It can and does go both ways. My rotation ended and I got my evals from an attending and a senior resident. Then I had words with this guy. I just told him what I think he did that was wrong, and that he was creating a lot of enemies by his behavior (on my team, I was the only med student who would even talk to him after the first day- everyone else avoided him like the plague). He is an IMG and I was giving him the benefit of the doubt (in that maybe he had no clue as to how he OUGHT to treat students- maybe he rotated on the moon or something). I've already decided I'm not taking crap anymore. I work hard when I am at work- and I'm over interns taking advantage of this.
To the OP- I think you should really tear her up on the eval. By that, I mean just be honest. She should be able to take what she dishes out.

 

[StudentDoc327]

Stop doing whatever the hell kind of scut she is asking you to do... let her know you want to be taught something in return for helping her out. Just be like, you know we have done x for you, how about you teach us about x. If she is cool she will probably be more than willing to teach you something. If she is isnt than stop doing her scut. It's your tuition money. Take the stand. 🙂

 

[DebDynamite]

Stop doing whatever the hell kind of scut she is asking you to do... let her know you want to be taught something in return for helping her out. Just be like, you know we have done x for you, how about you teach us about x. If she is cool she will probably be more than willing to teach you something. If she is isnt than stop doing her scut. It's your tuition money. Take the stand. 🙂

This is about the best advice ever. And what is it, anyway, that makes the interns more likely to scut? I have yet to be scutted by anyone past the intern stage.

 

[imtiaz]

that is really unfortunate. i let my students go home at noon if theres no cases and nothings going on. thats ridiculous. sorry that youre having this experience, id bring it up to the chief resident first, and have the chief resident talk to the director.

 

[ieatkids]

that's funny, my friend who is getting bullied by the resident(s) are in OBGYN. Does something about OBGYN attract the bastards of medicine or it turns them that way?

of course this is just two incidents.

 

[SLUser11]

Do an SDN search on OBGYN and you'll find out that the stereotype is alive and well.

People suck.....interns are not exempt from that.....but they reap what they sow.

 

[Orthonut]

Usually I just lurk here, but I can't control myself any longer, my navy language is just dying to escape, and I've had a rouuugh couplea weeks.

What an asshat! I really think you should say something, because if you don't, she's just going to keep on keeping on-treating more med students, then interns, then residents like crap-cause she'll get away with it. Be prepared though that it might blow up in your face. Definately go in a group, and for sure keep emotion OUT OF the meeting. Present facts, and only facts.

Here's my take on this-we all know we've got to do scut work right? because if no one does it, it won't get done. But there are two types of people-people who will walk all over the gajillion bed hospital to find a med student or intern to do the scut work for them, or a person who will see "hmm, X needs Y done, no one is around to do it, I am not doing anything, what the hell, it will only take two seconds to help this patient do Z/make this photocopy, etc etc" I guess what I"m saying is there's paying your dues, and then there's paying other people's dues. Don't go into the meeting as a whiney complainer, go into the meeting presenting the facts in a calm, rational manner-you'll get way further than if you let your frustrations get the best of you (and hey, personally, I'd not really blame you if you went in there and 'vented your spleen' about her, but you might regret it later when you're cleaning poo off the floor and someone else is assisting on a cool procedure)

 

[justwondering]

a girl in my class heard about the unfair treatment by a senior who was going to be her resident. she complained to the director. then she started the rotation with that senior who then proceeded to ostracize her and ignore her in general.

 

[ennuiescence]

All of this is precisely why I made the conscious decision to avoid the bullshizzles associated with medical politics and just focus on learning, taking care of my patients, and doing my work. I HATE getting involved in all the other unnecessary expenses of energy that serve no purpose other than to inflate/deflate egos, depending on who is on the receiving end.

 

[beary]

And what is it, anyway, that makes the interns more likely to scut? I have yet to be scutted by anyone past the intern stage.

I think it is because interns have the most scut to do themselves. Not that that makes it right to scut out med students by any means.

 

[Wednesday]

I had an intern who scutted us a lot. She was ob/gyn too, incidentally, but since I am also now an ob/gyn intern, I am not going to agree with the popular broad generalization about my kind. 😉 Anyway, we all complained via evaluations and she shaped up for the next group. Apparently someone heard her commenting to another resident later that she really needed to be nicer because the students hated her on the last rotation. I don't think she realized what she was doing though. I mean, we get pretty busy sometimes and it's nice to have a little help. Residents are supposed to be learning how to be good teachers as well as good doctors. Unfortunately sometimes the life of an intern is more about keeping your head above water than thinking of the best way to frame a question so an MS3 can learn. I would suggest you try to hang out with the seniors more because they should have more to teach and not "crucify" her on her evals, but maybe give some constructive criticism. Yes, we have all been where you are and should know better. But remember, you will all be where we are someday and perhaps not as perfect as you'd like to be. Best thing to keep in mind is that it will all be over soon--third year doesn't last forever.

 

[ocean11]

Thanks for the replies everyone....

This particular intern does get scutted by the senior residents and does get 'told off' on a regular basis by the other residents AND attendings. Actually the place where I'm at is 'interesting' in that 'no one gets along' and residents frequently fight with each other as well as attendings. Its not a very 'healthy' environment. Even Nurses and residents yell at each other on a daily basis. This particular intern has broken down crying very recently b/c she's put under alot of pressure daily.

The students avoid her like the plague and I am going to switch my call schedule this week to avoid her. Yes I am going to 'crucify' her on my evals and talk to the person who does my evals and get hers discarded. We might go as a group as well. I need to get the other students motivated b/c some are scared of letting it affect their grade. I only have another week of this though b/c we get a few days off next week (Shelf study/shelf exam).

On a funny side... one of the senior residents came up to me last night at 3am while I was on call and told me that if I helped clean out her house she would give me a perfect evaluation... NO SERIOUSLY! crazy huh? I'm NOT going to do it! but the hospital that I'm at is so crazy... I AM NEVER doing OB/GYn Here if I ever decide to do it........ on top of it the attending wouldn't let me and the other student sleep at all... b/c 'we should learn something at 3am when no one is delivering' the rest of the attendings let students sleep for at least 2 hours or so..... oh he went to rest after that.... MAN! this place sucks...... but hey at least I saw 3 c-sections last night... that was interesting....

PEACE!

 

[MeowMix]

This particular intern does get scutted by the senior residents and does get 'told off' on a regular basis by the other residents AND attendings. Actually the place where I'm at is 'interesting' in that 'no one gets along' and residents frequently fight with each other as well as attendings. Its not a very 'healthy' environment. Even Nurses and residents yell at each other on a daily basis. This particular intern has broken down crying very recently b/c she's put under alot of pressure daily.

Here's a clue: if this intern were happy and well-rested, would they be behaving this way? Could you and your fellow students do anything to help them feel less overworked, more appreciated, and more relaxed? Treating each other like human beings with needs and limitations works a lot better than slamming someone on an eval. And it helps them to learn how to manage their workload better, so that they and their students can get along better in the future. Maybe this is someone with really crappy time management skills, and maybe you can help out.

 

[ocean11]

Here's a clue: if this intern were happy and well-rested, would they be behaving this way? Could you and your fellow students do anything to help them feel less overworked, more appreciated, and more relaxed? Treating each other like human beings with needs and limitations works a lot better than slamming someone on an eval. And it helps them to learn how to manage their workload better, so that they and their students can get along better in the future. Maybe this is someone with really crappy time management skills, and maybe you can help out.

help out? WE DO NOTHING BUT help out.... THE SECOND I get there after rounds I ask "Is there anything you need?" or "How are you?" etc etc... even the nurses remarked how nice our group is. The intern dosn't say goodmorning or hi to us... just 'sit down and I'll tell you when I need you...' I subsequently do my own thing or go to other residents.... but this intern is BEYOND help.... I have NO sympathy for her.... and really don't think she should even be doing this...... she's not nice to patients either..... a few have already complained....

 

[ennuiescence]

Yeah, yeah!

Damn the (wo)man! Stick it to the (wo)man!

Actually, no. I just like to mind my own business during rotations and suck it up. If it was entirely unbearable, then I would confront the intern one-on-one and ask point-blank what the problem was and how it can be solved with specific resolution before involving anyone else.

Even if the intern was a jackass, I would at least like to stomp out the fire locally before other residents and physicians began to think that I was merely a "trouble-maker" and not a team player. Even if people who did not know the full story made such a precocious assumption, I would like to be reputed as one with the ability to efforlessly rise above the basicity of political entanglement--whether or not the intern was wrong in his or her actions from the very beginning.

That stated, it is probably easier said than done if your intern is really that bad. Sorry you have to deal with it.

 

[Paws]

Here's a clue: if this intern were happy and well-rested, would they be behaving this way? Could you and your fellow students do anything to help them feel less overworked, more appreciated, and more relaxed? Treating each other like human beings with needs and limitations works a lot better than slamming someone on an eval. And it helps them to learn how to manage their workload better, so that they and their students can get along better in the future. Maybe this is someone with really crappy time management skills, and maybe you can help out.

Hey Meow, I know what you're trying to say here but I think if someone is inclined to do this it's because of their personality more than a lack of time management skills. I have a wretched fourth year who keeps trying to get me to do the scut crap and is super rude towards me while she scrubs in on cool procedures, sucks up to the higher ups, etc. You get the picture. I think someone's personality is just that, their personality. If they were a decent person to begin with then they would still be pretty decent even when under stress - as my terrific intern is now. But someone who is an asshat to begin with, no matter the situation you put them in they will continue to act as they know best - unless they are absolutely forced to change their behavior.

I am trying to just roll with the waves around me, like a little boat. When some one is being weird or inappropriate I try and just let it roll off, or I walk away. In the end, as long as I maintain my professionalism and don't react, their behavior can only reflect on themselves. I'd like to figure out how to tell people to stuff it tho, but in a professional way. Haven't figured that out yet ... confronting inappropriate people doesn't seem to work I find. They just become more angry and or more insane, and I just don't have the energy for that. I think the tai chi way is better: just step out of their way and let them fall by their own energy. Something like that ...

 

[justwondering]

i think she will be more likely to change for future students if you guys put it nicely (the criticism in the evals). i think if someone gave me a really rude eval lthat also had real criticism, i would ignore it because id be PO'd.

 

[metabolite]

I need some form of help/advise/criticism of my pettiness from all those who suffered a painful rotation - where they won't let you touch a patient but don't let you go early either.

Initially thought I might like this rotation that I am at, but now I'm just turned off by how petty people can be - especially the senior residents that are around. Other students seem fine, maybe because they are not interested in this specialty, but I am pretty irritated because I feel like I did my time in classroom for the first 2 years and I'd rather be running around doing something. If not anything, at least I should not be subjected to listening to banters between the seniors or some bogus discussion on a "made-up case" scenario while residents are justifying my "confinement" by assigning my priority is to kiss ass (and yes, they have literally told me that).

Somebody please tell me that this is a frustrating part of MSIII or that I need to get myself together because I'm being too petty or something - I'm afraid that I will totally lose it this week. Sadly, this is day #3 of my rotation 🙁

 

[colbgw02]

I need some form of help/advise/criticism of my pettiness from all those who suffered a painful rotation - where they won't let you touch a patient but don't let you go early either.

Initially thought I might like this rotation that I am at, but now I'm just turned off by how petty people can be - especially the senior residents that are around. Other students seem fine, maybe because they are not interested in this specialty, but I am pretty irritated because I feel like I did my time in classroom for the first 2 years and I'd rather be running around doing something. If not anything, at least I should not be subjected to listening to banters between the seniors or some bogus discussion on a "made-up case" scenario while residents are justifying my "confinement" by assigning my priority is to kiss ass (and yes, they have literally told me that).

Somebody please tell me that this is a frustrating part of MSIII or that I need to get myself together because I'm being too petty or something - I'm afraid that I will totally lose it this week. Sadly, this is day #3 of my rotation 🙁

you're not being petty, but, sadly, you had better get used to it.

the fact that student don't get to do much, imo, is because 1) many residents didn't get to do anything as students either, so they need the practice now, 2) you're not allowed to (like putting in orders, writing the "official" H&P, 3) there's not enough time - it takes longer to teach a student to do something than it does to do it yourself, and 4) you're not to be trusted - sorry, but it's true. most medical students are responsible and capable, but remember that your residents don't know you from adam and you'll be off rotation by the time they trust you.

sorry, it sucks, but know that one day the circumstances will change.

 

[thackl]

Jeez, I feel lucky. To this point the only times I'm scutted is when it's voluntary.... as in 'my resident is tired/busy and I'll do what I can to help'. There were a few slow/boring times on OB where I asked to be scutted just to have something to do 🙄

I wouldn't put up with that either though. It's one thing when I offer; it's another to be bullied and unappreciated.