Another Criminal Background Question

[allthingshuman]

Greetings,

I've done a review of the forums and havn't found something that relates to my particular situation. However, I hope you can forgive me if my review was inadequate 😳.

I will be applying to Clinical Psychology graduate programs, but have concerns over my "criminal history" (shudder).

In 2005 I was arrested/convicted for selling alcohol to a minor. I was working as a cashier (I was technically a minor myself. <21yo). It was an undercover operation (ABC). I actually checked the ID, but as a result of lack of focus/attention allowed the sale. Tough lesson to learn as I had been in excellent standing with all authority until this point.

One year ago, I was arrested, albeit not convicted, of possession of mushrooms. A story that truly couldn't have been scripted. I required medical attention and was arrested after receiving it. I have completed all court requirements, and as long as I stay out of trouble will not have a conviction on my record. The arrest will show up on an FBI background check though.

While these events are not a reflection of my being, they are nonetheless attached to my being. My question is not one of disclosure, but will I be allowed admission? Post admission will I have difficulty with internships, practicums, aquiring a full time position?

Thanks in advance. Live well.

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[aventurine]

My grad program did not ask about criminal history in the application.

You do have to state and explain any criminal history when you apply for the internship match. In addition, the licensure application in my state asks:

Have you ever been found guilty after trial, or pleaded guilty, no contest, or nolo contendere to a crime (felony or misdemeanor) in any court?

Are criminal charges pending against you in any court?

(If "yes," you have to explain.)

Most job applications ask about criminal background and do a background check. Again, if you have a history, they will ask you to explain.

It is better to explain if you have a history because, while they may consider your explanation if you provide it, if they catch you lying, you'll be terminated.

So, yes, these questions do come up, but you'd need to talk to more people who are in-the-know (e.g., others who have similar history, training directors, APPIC folks, maybe APAGS?) to find out exactly how much of an obstacle this issue is likely to be for you.

 

[deleted176373]

While these events are not a reflection of my being, they are nonetheless attached to my being. My question is not one of disclosure, but will I be allowed admission? Post admission will I have difficulty with internships, practicums, aquiring a full time position?

Thanks in advance. Live well.

How are they not a reflection of your being??? You did them... take a moment and reflect on that. That said, being somewhat isolated incidents, I don't think that they will be a huge hurdle to overcome. Still there are some who might pick another job/internship/practicum candidate over you, when all else is equal.

The more distal the events, the less problematic they will be for you from a career standpoint. At 30, few people will care that you sold alcohol to a minor when you were under 21 yourself. If you were to continue to have incidents in the future, well, then it would be confirmatory evidence of bad decision making, which could affect your career.

I do know this, if someone had these past problems, and stated that they were not a reflection of who they were, as an employer, I would have a problem with that. It's different than owning it, acknowledging the mistake, and stating that they have moved forward. There is a difference. You will need to be careful in how you present this in order to show that you have the maturity to recognize your mistakes and learn from them.

Mark

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I do know this, if someone had these past problems, and stated that they were not a reflection of who they were, as an employer, I would have a problem with that. It's different than owning it, acknowledging the mistake, and stating that they have moved forward. There is a difference. You will need to be careful in how you present this in order to show that you have the maturity to recognize your mistakes and learn from them.

Mark

Agreed. There's no reason to spontaneously (and potentially inappropriately) volunteer the information if you aren't asked about it, but if the question comes up--either on the application or during interview--as Mark said, recount the incidents honestly, acknowledge that mistakes were made, and briefly discuss what you've done to learn and move on.

 

[allthingshuman]

I appreciate the responses.

How they are not a reflection of my being? I hardly think that many isolated experiences on their own can accurately reflect the totality of an individual's being. I hope when your client reveals a past "mistake" or two, you won't be as quick to attribute it to their being.

That being said, it is not as if these events have not been (and continue to be) incredibly humbling tremendous experiences that have changed the trajectory of my life, acting as catalysts for further psycho-spiritual integration.

Please note that I didn't feel that the acknowledgement of personal doership on this forum was relevant to the original concern of forecasting the perception of an admissions board who would look at an application. I hope that my true being, ability, passion AND accountability 😛 would be apparent during a face to face admissions interview.

Thanks again; I do appreciate you guys taking the time to respond.

 

[edieb]

You will be fine. Most PhD programs I know of do not ask about criminal history. APPIC only asks about convictions. Thus, you will only have to admit to the shroom charge. Moreover, by the time you apply for internship this conviction will be so far in the background it is unlikely it will be a negative factor in the intern selction process.


If possible per your state's laws, I would strongly recommend you have this conviction expunged from your record ASAP. Even though it likely won't affect your ability to become a psychologists, you don't want it sitting on your record either

 

[psychgirl77]

In my program we had to complete a criminal record check before starting the program. Don't most programs do this?

 

[nitemagi]

I'd consider along the way consulting an attorney about what to disclose and not disclose. If you look through sdn, there's multiple threads (albeit from physicians) who were terminated from training programs because they had omitted some criminal issues from their application, only later to be found out via other channels. It would be a shame to get multiple years in and in debt only to have this rear its head again.

 

[The Everglow]

I can't offer any suggestions on the legality of your situation, but I do want to offer my emotional support. I truly hope that such utterly minor "transgressions" will not affect your future prospects. Especially the mushrooms incident; how absurd.

All the best, and happy Canadian thanksgiving!

 

[paramour]

I recall there being a few apps asking me about general criminal history (when applying to grad school), and a few more than that being more specific and asking about any offenses directly related to substance use. FWIW, I seem to recall reading in some random programs' manuals that one could potentially be terminated if information was not revealed and/or if one was arrested for substance use related offenses (e.g., DUI/DWI?) during one's course of the program. I wish I remember what program that was but it's been a helluva long time, and I've slept since then (although not since night before last!). 😴

 

[AcronymAllergy]

In my program we had to complete a criminal record check before starting the program. Don't most programs do this?

I haven't heard of it with many programs, but I haven't asked around very much regarding it, either. It wasn't required in my doctoral program, but as another poster mentioned, it's definitely a part of the APPIC application (i.e., list any convictions other than minor traffic violations).

I don't know how often something like one of your offenses would actually prevent someone from getting a position, but I'd say this is one of those situations where the saying, "it's easier to beg for for forgiveness than ask for permission" doesn't hold. Like nitemagi said, it's not unheard of for someone to be terminated down the line for an offense that, if it had been disclosed initially as required rather than surfacing much later down the line, wouldn't have been a huge issue. I've certainly heard of it happening in med school, and given that every psychologist I know is very big on the philosophy, "I'm ok with it if you screw up so long as you're honest with me about it," I can see how it'd potentially happen in grad school/on internship as well (again, assuming your program requires the disclosure).

 

[erg923]

I haven't heard of it with many programs, but I haven't asked around very much regarding it, either. It wasn't required in my doctoral program, but as another poster mentioned, it's definitely a part of the APPIC application (i.e., list any convictions other than minor traffic violations).

I don't know how often something like one of your offenses would actually prevent someone from getting a position, but I'd say this is one of those situations where the saying, "it's easier to beg for for forgiveness than ask for permission" doesn't hold. Like nitemagi said, it's not unheard of for someone to be terminated down the line for an offense that, if it had been disclosed initially as required rather than surfacing much later down the line, wouldn't have been a huge issue. I've certainly heard of it happening in med school, and given that every psychologist I know is very big on the philosophy, "I'm ok with it if you screw up so long as you're honest with me about it," I can see how it'd potentially happen in grad school/on internship as well (again, assuming your program requires the disclosure).

I agree. And keep in mind, there is a big difference between something like this happening early in the undergrad years vs in the 3rd year of a doctoral program.

Although the shrooms things isn't all that big a deal I suppose, it would give me pause about the persons judgment and lifestyle if this happened the year before the doctoral internship match vs sophomore year of undergrad...ya know?

 

[Neuropsych2be]

The conviction for selling beer to a minor when working as a clerk is something no one should think twice about. yes its a legal conviction, but it was mistake anyone in that job could make. I'd work to get that expunged off your record. As far as the shrooms goes, you are telling us you were not actually convicted of anything. I'd say you are under no obligation to discuss a crime for which there was no actual conviction.Anyone can be charged or arrested for anything but if there is not an actual conviction you have not been found guilty of a crime.

Greetings,

I've done a review of the forums and havn't found something that relates to my particular situation. However, I hope you can forgive me if my review was inadequate 😳.

I will be applying to Clinical Psychology graduate programs, but have concerns over my "criminal history" (shudder).

In 2005 I was arrested/convicted for selling alcohol to a minor. I was working as a cashier (I was technically a minor myself. <21yo). It was an undercover operation (ABC). I actually checked the ID, but as a result of lack of focus/attention allowed the sale. Tough lesson to learn as I had been in excellent standing with all authority until this point.

One year ago, I was arrested, albeit not convicted, of possession of mushrooms. A story that truly couldn't have been scripted. I required medical attention and was arrested after receiving it. I have completed all court requirements, and as long as I stay out of trouble will not have a conviction on my record. The arrest will show up on an FBI background check though.

While these events are not a reflection of my being, they are nonetheless attached to my being. My question is not one of disclosure, but will I be allowed admission? Post admission will I have difficulty with internships, practicums, aquiring a full time position?

Thanks in advance. Live well.

 

[nitemagi]

I'd say you are under no obligation to discuss a crime for which there was no actual conviction.Anyone can be charged or arrested for anything but if there is not an actual conviction you have not been found guilty of a crime.

I'm not an attorney, and I recognize we're all giving our opinions here, but I'd just be mindful that some disciplinary committees and regulatory boards are more rigid than others. What one of us feels you should or shouldn't do, what qualifies as a "crime" vs. "a conviction" vs. "a misdemeanor," with all those gray areas, may be subjective if it falls in the path of the wrong person. Talk to an attorney. Otherwise I'd say you're rolling the dice (probably with the odds in your favor, but chancing it nonetheless).

 

[psychgeek]

For what it is worth, I don't think this will be a big deal. I assume the alcohol and mushroom charges were misdemeanors. Even if you had to disclose them, I doubt they would make a program that otherwise wanted to take you move down the list.

For licensure I believe the majority rule is no felonies or misdemeanors that involve dishonesty, but you can check with the state licensing board in a couple of places you'd like to practice to reassure yourself if you wanted.


I'd disclose what applications ask you to disclose, but I wouldn't volunteer anything else. If in doubt, it is probably better to disclose. You never want discrepancies between applications to arise, but it is also entirely possible that you will never be asked to report these incidents except to a licensing board (who almost certainly will not care). You could ask an attorney, but I'd call the your state licensing board for a recommendation if you do go this route. Most of the lawyers who work with criminal histories and professional licenses concentrate upon physicians and attorneys, and their rules are much more strict.

Mostly, don't worry too much about this. Answer all questions honestly, and this will not be a big problem.

 

[JuniperTree]

My grad program did not ask about criminal history in the application.

You do have to state and explain any criminal history when you apply for the internship match. In addition, the licensure application in my state asks:

Have you ever been found guilty after trial, or pleaded guilty, no contest, or nolo contendere to a crime (felony or misdemeanor) in any court?

Are criminal charges pending against you in any court?

(If "yes," you have to explain.)

Most job applications ask about criminal background and do a background check. Again, if you have a history, they will ask you to explain.

It is better to explain if you have a history because, while they may consider your explanation if you provide it, if they catch you lying, you'll be terminated.

So, yes, these questions do come up, but you'd need to talk to more people who are in-the-know (e.g., others who have similar history, training directors, APPIC folks, maybe APAGS?) to find out exactly how much of an obstacle this issue is likely to be for you.

Every single program I am applying to asks about this.

 

[ClinicalABA]

If, as a component of the clinical training, you will provide services to children (or to adults with certain disabilities), state laws may require some sort of CORI (Criminal Offender Record Information) check. While the incidents on your record would not seem to indicate that you are a risk of re-offending, some agencies or programs may have policies against employing anybody with a record of certain crimes (or any crimes). If you get to the practicum/internship portion of your training, it is possible (likely?) that you will have to agree to a CORI check as condition of employment. Though your record may not disqualify you, it may come out. Therefore, you might want to be upfront about it.

 

[erg923]

If, as a component of the clinical training, you will provide services to children (or to adults with certain disabilities), state laws may require some sort of CORI (Criminal Offender Record Information) check. While the incidents on your record would not seem to indicate that you are a risk of re-offending, some agencies or programs may have policies against employing anybody with a record of certain crimes (or any crimes). If you get to the practicum/internship portion of your training, it is possible (likely?) that you will have to agree to a CORI check as condition of employment. Though your record may not disqualify you, it may come out. Therefore, you might want to be upfront about it.

I was just going to say this. That is, to provide ANY kind of service to patients in a hospital, clinic, or anywhere else, one is going to be go theough a background check. Several years ago, my VA practicum required that we go through the same background investigation as any other employee. Took several months to clear.

 

[paramour]

If, as a component of the clinical training, you will provide services to children (or to adults with certain disabilities), state laws may require some sort of CORI (Criminal Offender Record Information) check. While the incidents on your record would not seem to indicate that you are a risk of re-offending, some agencies or programs may have policies against employing anybody with a record of certain crimes (or any crimes). If you get to the practicum/internship portion of your training, it is possible (likely?) that you will have to agree to a CORI check as condition of employment. Though your record may not disqualify you, it may come out. Therefore, you might want to be upfront about it.

I was just going to say this. That is, to provide ANY kind of service to patients in a hospital, clinic, or anywhere else, one is going to be go theough a background check. Several years ago, my VA practicum required that we go through the same background investigation as any other employee. Took several months to clear.

+1. I have worked at hospitals and residential neurorehab facilities in the past that required background checks. More recently, the nonprofit organization I work at required a background check (twice: once when I started volunteering, and again when I became the official extern b/c they misplaced the first background check).

Our profs have told us stories of folks they know who lost their licensure or had additional requirements placed on them due to convictions related to substance use, so I wouldn't make blanket statements about no one (i.e., licensing boards) caring about them.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I'm not an attorney, and I recognize we're all giving our opinions here, but I'd just be mindful that some disciplinary committees and regulatory boards are more rigid than others. What one of us feels you should or shouldn't do, what qualifies as a "crime" vs. "a conviction" vs. "a misdemeanor," with all those gray areas, may be subjective if it falls in the path of the wrong person. Talk to an attorney. Otherwise I'd say you're rolling the dice (probably with the odds in your favor, but chancing it nonetheless).

Solid advice.