Another typical what are my chances thread

[InsatiableId]

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Hey guys, well I just got my Medicine grade today, and I only passed it. Obviously, I feel like crap right now but instead of complaining, I'm going to ask for advice. Basically I'm wondering if I still have any shot at getting into a good anesthesiology program.

I did well on the step 1, with a 250, and I go to a top tier med school (I think... what defines top tier anyways?), but other than that, I really have nothing to go on.

My grades have been mediocre... I honored 3 out of 21 preclinical classes and high passed 5 of them; I'm halfway through my 3rd year and have been taking clinical rotations for a year now, and the only things I've honored are neuro and two surgical subspecialties. I've only passed everything else, including general surgery and now medicine. I don't really have any extracurricular activities, since lifting weights and sleeping pretty much takes up all my "free time."

Anyways, until today, I was planning on doing radiology, but reality hit me, and I decided I should set my goals on something achievable, so I decided on anesthesiology, which I do like. I was just wondering if you guys had any advice on what to do from now until I apply. And "honor everything from now on" isn't that helpful since it hasn't worked so far.

--IId

 

[Idiopathic]

Anyways, until today, I was planning on doing radiology, but reality hit me, and I decided I should set my goals on something achievable, so I decided on anesthesiology, which I do like.

Make sure and say this at your interviews.

 

[NupeMD2B]

Hey guys, well I just got my Medicine grade today, and I only passed it. Obviously, I feel like crap right now but instead of complaining, I'm going to ask for advice. Basically I'm wondering if I still have any shot at getting into a good anesthesiology program.

I don't know what school you go to, to tier or not (which by the way is based partly on people's opinions and partly on rankings like US News and World Report), but who ever told you that you won' get into the residency of your choice with a Step 1 of 250 and passing clinical grades is a liar. 250, are you kidding me? Please tell me this is either a joke post or you are a major gunner....

People like you should be thankful that you can excel at something like subjective MC tests, which unfortunately it seems like most programs look at your Board scores before they even see your evals from your clinical preceptors. I'm a MS-IV, and this is the opinion I've been receiving from not only the PDs at my school (UMich) but also other places and other students who have interviewed....perhaps some of the MDs who read this can prove me wrong. But for those of us who are struggling with Boards and do well -> very well clinically, it seems like a disadvantage.

Anyway, I don't intend to bring things down upon you, but I do wish you luck in whatever field you decide to pursue. I really think (and perhaps others will speak to this) that you should go for (apply for) the field in which you're really into, not one that you think "your scores wil let you into." You'll be miserable. If you want rads, let THEM tell you that you don't belong. Sorry for the long post, but yours was quite appalling so I felt inclined to write.

 

[undecided05]

apply to both and then take the interviews that you want and rank programs based on how comfortable you feel there and if you would rather do rads or gas.... it's that simple. You'll get plenty of interviews to places all over the country for both.

 

[VentdependenT]

Hey guys, well I just got my Medicine grade today, and I only passed it. Obviously, I feel like crap right now but instead of complaining, I'm going to ask for advice. Basically I'm wondering if I still have any shot at getting into a good anesthesiology program.

I did well on the step 1, with a 250, and I go to a top tier med school (I think... what defines top tier anyways?), but other than that, I really have nothing to go on.

My grades have been mediocre... I honored 3 out of 21 preclinical classes and high passed 5 of them; I'm halfway through my 3rd year and have been taking clinical rotations for a year now, and the only things I've honored are neuro and two surgical subspecialties. I've only passed everything else, including general surgery and now medicine. I don't really have any extracurricular activities, since lifting weights and sleeping pretty much takes up all my "free time."

Anyways, until today, I was planning on doing radiology, but reality hit me, and I decided I should set my goals on something achievable, so I decided on anesthesiology, which I do like. I was just wondering if you guys had any advice on what to do from now until I apply. And "honor everything from now on" isn't that helpful since it hasn't worked so far.

--IId

Buddy, you are nowhere NEAR out of the race for radiology. Go for it. Don't cut yourself down and go into a field you aren't prepared to dedicate yourself to.

 

[Jeff05]

1. get involved in radiology research with the biggest name at your school. asap. you will get many interview and are likely to match with 250.

2. 3rd year grades are a joke. there are too many uncontrolled variables to list. everyone knows that. that's why the ONLY thing they are good for (along with the first 2 years) is bumping you to AOA - which is not a joke.

3. LOR are important. it's important who writes them. because most medical students are smart enough to only ask for GOOD letters, their content is not as important. dean's letters are a waste of paper.

4. the ONLY item one can use to really compare students across the country is the USMLE. period. people that say that they are bad test takers simply didn't study enough, period. really there is no secret. your score directly correlates to your efforts. people just have different slopes - so you might have to study less or more. all step I does is test basic science principles and a ****load of memorization - which is what medicine is. so that's how you get your interviews.

5. ok, that's not all medicine is about. medicine is also personality, compassion, leadership, ability to get along with people etc. that's the stuff they'll look at when you're interviewing. any volunteer activity at the local shelter? any positions in organizations? and, of course the review you will get from you interviers - which most of the time comes down to a number ranking.

6. so, if you want to do radiology, get involved in research, get some extracurrics - it's not too late, schedule rads rotations early in the 4th year and get pimp letters. you will match - you already did the hard part.

Hey guys, well I just got my Medicine grade today, and I only passed it. Obviously, I feel like crap right now but instead of complaining, I'm going to ask for advice. Basically I'm wondering if I still have any shot at getting into a good anesthesiology program.

I don't know what school you go to, to tier or not (which by the way is based partly on people's opinions and partly on rankings like US News and World Report), but who ever told you that you won' get into the residency of your choice with a Step 1 of 250 and passing clinical grades is a liar. 250, are you kidding me? Please tell me this is either a joke post or you are a major gunner....

People like you should be thankful that you can excel at something like subjective MC tests, which unfortunately it seems like most programs look at your Board scores before they even see your evals from your clinical preceptors. I'm a MS-IV, and this is the opinion I've been receiving from not only the PDs at my school (UMich) but also other places and other students who have interviewed....perhaps some of the MDs who read this can prove me wrong. But for those of us who are struggling with Boards and do well -> very well clinically, it seems like a disadvantage.

Anyway, I don't intend to bring things down upon you, but I do wish you luck in whatever field you decide to pursue. I really think (and perhaps others will speak to this) that you should go for (apply for) the field in which you're really into, not one that you think "your scores wil let you into." You'll be miserable. If you want rads, let THEM tell you that you don't belong. Sorry for the long post, but yours was quite appalling so I felt inclined to write.

 

[Jeff05]

For many PDs and Chairs those grades are significantly more important than those from your first two years and in many cases can make the difference between you and someone else with the same numbers.[/QUOTE]


---for some fields this is true, fields where you work as part of a team and care for patients. however, Radiology PDs and Chairs could not care LESS about you ability to work on a team or care for patients. because unless you do IR (and even then, not so much) you will NOT work as part of a team and NOT care for patients.

Rads PDs care about the following things. roughly in this order.
1. Boards 2. AOA 3. LOR 4. Research 5. personality (whichever they're looking for) during interview.
the specialty is simply too competitive to leave decisions to subjective measures (for the vast majority of applicants)


that's it. simple. because at the end of the day it's not just about matching. it's about matching at a place, in a location where you would be happy.

so again, for you - work on getting research with a known guy (over the summer and take an elective block for this early in the year) and letters (since you probably missed the boat with AOA).

if you are interested in anesthesiology, i would schedule that as a second rotation during your 4th year, because in order to apply to that you will need letters and a basic show of interest.

 

[Med4ever]

If your third year grades blow and your class rank sucks do you recommend writing step 2 early?

 

[InsatiableId]

Sorry, I didn't mean to make a stupid post, I was just wondering if my board scores would be enough to make me competitive for a highly ranked spot. Personally, I think it's ridiculous if all I have is a good step 1 score and still get a top residency, but, of course, I wouldn't complain. Also, good luck to the rest of you. I really don't know if I'd like rads better than gas anyways, I just had it set in mind for some reason.

IId

 

[Jeff05]

If your third year grades blow and your class rank sucks do you recommend writing step 2 early?

yes. but, only if you do well. or at least better than step I.

 

[powermd]

For many PDs and Chairs those grades are significantly more important than those from your first two years and in many cases can make the difference between you and someone else with the same numbers.

Rads PDs care about the following things. roughly in this order.
1. Boards 2. AOA 3. LOR 4. Research 5. personality (whichever they're looking for) during interview.
the specialty is simply too competitive to leave decisions to subjective measures (for the vast majority of applicants)

I would put personality at #1 (not LAST). A good one won't necessarily get you the job, but a bad one can very easily trump the best paper credentials. That's definitely something to consider given that the OP announced his intention to pursue a particular field just because he won't get into the one he really wants. That's a winning attitude if I've ever seen one!

 

[Jeff05]

the thing is that most people in medical school can interview well. very well. all the bad stuff comes out later.

one correction. most programs rank you before the interview. interview reviews just slide you up or down the existing list.

out of the 200 they interview, they might have 50 (and that's generous, considering anes people are usually ok) d@uches. 30 might be actually picked up during the average of 20 min they speak with you. the rest, are not trolls. they are average people.
everyone is assigned a numerical grade based on several categories. that number will either bump you down or bump you up on the ALREADY MADE rank list (consisting of boards, research, AOA, and all that application stuff).

bottom line. the better your grades and boards and research and letters, the greater your chances of matching at competitive institutions. worry about that, because that's all you can control. whether a yet to be determined interviewer likes you for 20 min on that particular day is completely out of your control. different people tend like different qualities in other people.

one other thing.
if you're going to apply for radiology and anes, you will also have to interview for preliminary/transitional programs.

to match into rads you will have to go on at least 10-15 interviews.
to match into gas at least 5 (of course depends on programs you're applying to, could be as many as 10)
and to match into prelim/transitional, i would hit at least 5.
just a heads up - to plan your 4th year accordingly. take a vacation block in january or december, and easy rotations (research) in november and jan/dec.

You're darn tooting on that one. Personality ends up playing the biggest role for PDs and Chairs across the board when it comes to making rank list decisions. That's why they call you in for an interview before ranking you. It isn't just to make sure you don't have a third eye in the middle of your forehead or something. It's to make sure that you mesh well with others, aren't a socio-/psycho-path and fit in with the people in the department (both residents and attendings).

I had a rads attending mention that, yes even for them, the personalities are everything because the attendings spend most of their day in a small, dark room typically one-on-one with their residents. They don't want to be stuck in a dark room with an arrogant jerk or some boring, bland guy. plus, on call nights those guys represent their department as an intergral part of just about every service in the hospital.

Sure, good boards and letters of rec will get you in the door, but if you're a jerk you can't hide that not even for a 20-30 minute interview. People pick up on it and those people typically get moved on down the list because of it.

To InsatiableId: Don't apologize, you didn't make a "stupid post" there are no stupid questions, just dumb answers. Like you've certainly learned by the myriad posts to your question, you'll be able to get in a lot of doors with your board scores. The most important thing is to find what you really want to do and pursue it. Apply widely in rads and CYA with some other fields that you've enjoyed... then see what happens. You might be pleasantly surprised, but you'll never know unless you try.