Another year...

[rachmoninov3]

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OK, so I tried but all the positive thinking in the world didn't help me this year (I'm about to console myself over some deep fried vegitables followed with some chocolate icecream). And while I've learned a lot, I've got a little delema that maybe you guys can help with.

So far I've chosen the road of just taking more undergraduate classes (next bs pending this fall), because I don't want to get roped into anything that I have to finish before I start medical school. But the only two things holding back my application from everyone elses this past cycle is: little research, and applying late.

I have a BA in chemistry, looking for a BS in Biology this fall.
31 MCAT (9ps, 10vr, 12bs)
3.5 GPA
The medical school I applied to's averages: 28.5 MCAT, 3.6 GPA
I've worked my way through school as a CNA/EMT, and continue to do the same to this day. I also have one helluva story for wanted to be a doctor...long term chronic disease that was cured by what was then, and I still consider to be a miracle surgery back in '96.
However, especially tonight, I feel really ****ty about my job. Like all this work, $, and studying and what do I have to show for it? I job I love, but I'm still living paycheck to paycheck, and all my friends are about to finish up their PhD's, and I'm just here. I make people smile, I make people laugh, and from time to time I have to pound of the chests and bag em, but that's about it. Sure, I learn a lot reading the H&P's, and just working...but I just want to do something where I'm recognized for all the school **** I've done.

OK, rant over, but I need to bring up that research stuff. And besides talking to my professors next week (there's some epidemiological modeling that one of them has connections to), I need something for next year. Anything research related. Possibly paid. (I'm making $15 and hour now, so working for peanuts doesn't bother me).

I'll apply June first this year, and I need research, and I need it now...along with some fried vegitables...of the popper or fried ocra variety.

 

[mustangsally65]

Hey rachmaninov,

Sorry to hear about your situation. It sounds like your application is pretty good, definitely better than mine! Applying early may just be the key to getting a lot of acceptances next year.

But there's the question of what to do for the next year. I know that feeling. Are you near a med school or big university where you could get some research positions? I must admit I don't know much about research becuase it doesn't interest me, but I thought I'd wish you lots of luck! Reapplying is really an awful prospect when it's initially staring you in the face, but I think it really does help you grow as a person and be more mature.

 

[suckermc]

Hey rachmaninov,

Sorry to hear about your situation. It sounds like your application is pretty good, definitely better than mine! Applying early may just be the key to getting a lot of acceptances next year.

But there's the question of what to do for the next year. I know that feeling. Are you near a med school or big university where you could get some research positions? I must admit I don't know much about research becuase it doesn't interest me, but I thought I'd wish you lots of luck! Reapplying is really an awful prospect when it's initially staring you in the face, but I think it really does help you grow as a person and be more mature.

so are you sure its the research thats holding you back? did you speak with the schools?

if you are in the nyc area, i could hook you up with some research peeps to talk to . otherwise, you can do what i did, and follow word of mouth.ask around on campus or thru your friends who is hiring. if that fails go to the human resource dept of the closest med school near you. with yr BA in chem you should have many options. the other route is collegegrad.com or sciencejobs.com. work on your resume and hit the streets.

one caveat---NIH funding is down. so keep this in mind as you search.

pm me if you have any questions.

 

[suckermc]

so are you sure its the research thats holding you back? did you speak with the schools?

if you are in the nyc area, i could hook you up with some research peeps to talk to . otherwise, you can do what i did, and follow word of mouth.ask around on campus or thru your friends who is hiring. if that fails go to the human resource dept of the closest med school near you. with yr BA in chem you should have many options. the other route is collegegrad.com or sciencejobs.com. work on your resume and hit the streets.

one caveat---NIH funding is down. so keep this in mind as you search.

pm me if you have any questions.

also, forget what everyone else is doing. just do you, man.

 

[pookadooka]

Hey

I don't know how much help I can be (because I grew-up in canada so i'm not sure exactly how things work here) but I do have research experience and am currently doing research in the meantime before I can get accepted inot some med school

You could do one of two things to gain research experience:
1. I know that there are master's programs that allow you can do in one year(mind you I have no idea if these programs are offered here in the US but i'm assuming so). But for the most part, most research-based master's degree involve a 2-year commitment.

2. You could email profs with research labs and ask if they need anyone. You might have to volunteer though in some labs just because you have no research experience and/or the lab may not have any funding but in any case it gives you research experience that you can put on your application. Most profs always welcome free help and if they get funding and you've proven yourself then they will prob hire you (keep in mind though research does not pay well).

Hope this helps and good luck!!!

 

[rachmoninov3]

thanks for all the support guys. I called off work last night, and I'm still dreading going to work tonight, and dreading even more studying for an exam next thursday that I was hoping to not have to take.

Unfortunately, I can't schedule what the school calls an 'exit interview' until may, so I have to go with the research and applying early as ways to improve my application. I've had a very sleepless night (I can't believe I feel this bad!) and I've emailed professors about my research interests, sending them my CV and all.
I was enjoying spring break so much (actually spending time with my husband), and now I can't wait to return to school.

thanks again for your support, you guys have been great. And Three little months from now, we do it all again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DoctorFunk]

If I read your first post correct, did you apply to only one school last cycle? If so, I strongly recommend bumping that number up significantly, because no matter how good your numbers (and yours seem fine, by the way) putting all of your eggs in one basket is no strategy in this crazy game. Cast a wide net and see what you come out with.

 

[jebus]

But the only two things holding back my application from everyone elses this past cycle is: little research, and applying late.

I have a BA in chemistry, looking for a BS in Biology this fall.
31 MCAT (9ps, 10vr, 12bs)
3.5 GPA
The medical school I applied to's averages: 28.5 MCAT, 3.6 GPA

Hi. If I recall you applied to UNM, right?
I have a lot of friends in the UNM SOM, I used to work in the BMSB, I have family friends who used to be departmental chairs, I have friends who are professors, and I used to work for an MD/PhD AdCom member. UNM is an odd duck.
They really like people who reapply again and again. I know people who have applied 2X, 3X, & 4X. I know few people who got in after one application. They seem to be the exception and not the rule.
If I were you I would email Dr. Bear now and tell him that you want to improve your application now so that it is as good as it can possibly be before you reapply and you'd like to make an appointment for an exit interview as soon as possible. The worst he can say is "no, please email me later."
I do not think research experience is holding you back. UNM is so primary care focused that research is almost a detriment. (I didn't bother to apply to UNM because Dr. Radloff and Dr. Bear told me they "would have trouble seeing me as a physician" - and they refused to extrapolate further since I had no clue what that meant - and I have substantial research experience.) Given your numbers (and your test scores are higher than UNM's average by quite a bit) I suspect your interview didn't go well (by their bizarre standards) or they put you into the "make apply a few times" pile. Seriously, they make no sense.
You certainly have my condolences but when you reapply make sure you follow Dr. Bear's advice on how to improve your application and be sure to cast a wide net and apply all over the country. New Mexico is a decent place to live but there are many decent places. You can always move back for a residency, etc.
Good luck!

 

[rachmoninov3]

Thank you so very much jebus! I took your advice and just emailed Dr. Bear. Just hearing that 'unm is an odd duck' makes me feel better about what could have been a factor in my application.

And to everyone here who has helped me through these last few days, thank you so very much, you don't know how much your sympathy and support helps!

 

[jebus]

R3, keep us (me) up-to-date on what happens vis-a-vis Dr. Bear. Well, there's no good reason for you to do that, I just like to get into other people's bizness. Please indulge my voyeuristic tendencies.

 

[PariPari]

Hi. If I recall you applied to UNM, right?
I have a lot of friends in the UNM SOM, I used to work in the BMSB, I have family friends who used to be departmental chairs, I have friends who are professors, and I used to work for an MD/PhD AdCom member. UNM is an odd duck.
They really like people who reapply again and again. I know people who have applied 2X, 3X, & 4X. I know few people who got in after one application. They seem to be the exception and not the rule.

UNM is so primary care focused that research is almost a detriment. (I didn't bother to apply to UNM because Dr. Radloff and Dr. Bear told me they "would have trouble seeing me as a physician" - and they refused to extrapolate further since I had no clue what that meant - and I have substantial research experience.) Given your numbers (and your test scores are higher than UNM's average by quite a bit) I suspect your interview didn't go well (by their bizarre standards) or they put you into the "make apply a few times" pile. Seriously, they make no sense.
You certainly have my condolences but when you reapply make sure you follow Dr. Bear's advice on how to improve your application and be sure to cast a wide net and apply all over the country. New Mexico is a decent place to live but there are many decent places. You can always move back for a residency, etc.
Good luck!

HOLY MOLY! I applied there & they questioned my commitment to clinical medicine b/c I've done research (I want to do primary care). So it's not just me, makes me feel a lot better....maybe that's what my 2nd interviewer was hinting at when I asked her about her path to medicine & she said she applied 3 times & was about to give up & do a PhD...they're psycho

To the OP--if what this guy says is true, then it's the applying late you mentioned combined w/ applying to just the one school. It was suggested that I apply to about 20 b/c I only applied to six this cycle.

 

[jebus]

HOLY MOLY! I applied there & they questioned my commitment to clinical medicine b/c I've done research (I want to do primary care). So it's not just me, makes me feel a lot better....maybe that's what my 2nd interviewer was hinting at when I asked her about her path to medicine & she said she applied 3 times & was about to give up & do a PhD...they're psycho

To the OP--if what this guy says is true, then it's the applying late you mentioned combined w/ applying to just the one school. It was suggested that I apply to about 20 b/c I only applied to six this cycle.

Aren't those people infuriating?! (I read your other post in the pre-allo forum.) Which one told you that they have trouble seeing you as a physician? (I've got like 5 years Neuroscience research, though, so I've definitely helped perpetuate that. But I've got a couple of friends who are currently MS2s who have PhDs from UNM in Neuroscience and Molecular Bio, respectively. And neither of them had any clinical ECs! None! But each applied 3X...) Meanwhile, I was essentially told my 36 and 3.3 from some USNews top tier schools (I was told this would essentially add a couple of tenths to my poor GPA) could go eat it because I didn't have enough clinical experience. Not to mention the PI I was working for thought nepotism was the bane of education and flatly refused to talk to any members of the adcom on my behalf if I applied... did I mention he's a turd?
I'm still waiting to hear from 6 schools this cycle, so... Maybe I'll apply to UNM in a couple of years if I don't get in anywhere this year. If I don't get in, I plan to spend a year off and improve all facets of my application - academic and clinical. Maybe work some more on my pecs, too. Perhaps such an approach (at least with regard to clinical preparation) might behoove you, as well. That's up to you...
I saw that you're thinking of retaking the MCAT. Good luck with that. If you have any questions about how to study for that or other preparation I'm happy to offer my advice because I like to step on top of my soapbox and pretend to be smart.
Good luck!

 

[PariPari]

Aren't those people infuriating?! (I read your other post in the pre-allo forum.) Which one told you that they have trouble seeing you as a physician? (I've got like 5 years Neuroscience research, though, so I've definitely helped perpetuate that. But I've got a couple of friends who are currently MS2s who have PhDs from UNM in Neuroscience and Molecular Bio, respectively. And neither of them had any clinical ECs! None! But each applied 3X...) Meanwhile, I was essentially told my 36 and 3.3 from some USNews top tier schools (I was told this would essentially add a couple of tenths to my poor GPA) could go eat it because I didn't have enough clinical experience. Not to mention the PI I was working for thought nepotism was the bane of education and flatly refused to talk to any members of the adcom on my behalf if I applied... did I mention he's a turd?
I'm still waiting to hear from 6 schools this cycle, so... Maybe I'll apply to UNM in a couple of years if I don't get in anywhere this year. If I don't get in, I plan to spend a year off and improve all facets of my application - academic and clinical. Maybe work some more on my pecs, too. Perhaps such an approach (at least with regard to clinical preparation) might behoove you, as well. That's up to you...
I saw that you're thinking of retaking the MCAT. Good luck with that. If you have any questions about how to study for that or other preparation I'm happy to offer my advice because I like to step on top of my soapbox and pretend to be smart.
Good luck!

They are so infuriating. I just don't get them........why do you require a thesis but then tell ppl they are too "research oriented?"

I had a PI who felt that it would wield un-due influence to write me a letter, I wouldn't have minded if I had gotten some pubs out of all the hours i spent doing his research typing up grant forms & doing lit reviews....some people...however I had one PI tell me I should have applied to his alma matter, maybe next year I will.

I'm assuming it was this Medicine doc I interviewed with (Gonzales, Martinez I can't remember which)....b/c the other one didn't even bring up my research. this guy brought it up, talked about it in relation to what he does/did and even though i tried to show how I thought of my research in terms of patient impact and the importance, he deadpanned, and then said, why didn't you apply to DO schools? my honest answer was i didn't know what one was
What are you going to do if you don't get in? 😡 😱 😕 (my emotions) then he says Not that I'm saying you won't get in.
He was the "bad cop" i suppose, even though at the time I thought we got along alright & had a decent interview.

So you live in NM now? How do you like it? We still have family down there & I was in love with the place & then their med school I thought was a good fit for me & i thought I got a decent interview slot.

I think it was a combo of just not knowing how to do this effectively & assuming that secondaries & interviews were a good sign & not a money maker...i wish i had found SDN this time last year...but it's all the advice is definately helping in creating a better app for next year. Dunno if I'll apply to UNM again though-maybe if i'm desperate

 

[rachmoninov3]

to jebus:
The dean told me quite flatly to attend their little workshop for those who were rejected on may1, then he will do the exit interviews. Well gee qwiz and golly doctor bear, I've reread my rejection letter about ten times already so I certainly saw the invitation to attend this workshop, and RSVPed for it the day after receiving my letter. I was sorta hoping to get something sooner so that I'd be able to improve my application is 2.5 months rather than just 1. He's probably busy with this new class, so I decided not to bother him further by clarifying my request. (I just hope my exit interview is before my interview for 2007!) Did that help your curiousity jebus?

But for UNM being an odd duck...I've had 6 years of working as a CNA/EMT...it's how I pay for school, food, shelter...you might even call it a career...and Dr. Bear says I need to work on my clinical experience...it's not 'exotic enough' (this is what he told me at my exit interview last year). UNM must be an odd duck!

Surprizingly, the research however is starting to look up. Today was my first day back from break, and already I've received positive corrospondence from two profs, one in math and one in physics, that are doing modeling of infx. disease, and I'm meeting the physics prof on thursday.

 

[rachmoninov3]

To Paripari

Both my interviewers seemed to me to be 'good cops'. The pediatrician, Dr. Archuleta, even told me that if it were up to him, I'd have the first place in the class...so obviously it WASN'T up to him.

As for New Mexico, it's great if you're the type of person who loves the outdoors, open spaces, and is willing to put up with sucky customer service, so that you can have your privacy. There's also tons of stuff here if you're into geekiness. LANL, SantaFe Insititute, Sandia, Intel, Genzyme. For me, it comes down to a few simple things:
1) The Mountains and the open space. On my long runs I can see 5 different moutain ranges, the san juans, the sangre de cristos, the sandias, the mountains in grants, and the jemez.
2) My hospital and the community it serves. I can't describe it, but being the sole provider for anything north of albuquerue and south of denver, as well as being an indi nonprofit...it all makes me feel really good about the work I do...even if it is remedial in a medical sense.
3) While there's a lot of different people up here, hippies, movie stars, wealthy bastards, high powered nerds, there's also the people who have been here since cortez. The best way to describe these types of people? Family. My husband jokes that Santa fe is as catholic as salt lake is mormon. But it is a nice feeling. One of my 'mothers' at work even bought me a suite for my interview this year when I was short on funds. Having such good friends who are more like family than anything else...dare I say, it's even worth attending mass a few times a year.

 

[jebus]

R3, aaaargh! "Exotic"? Is this really what they want? I'll repeat, aaaargh! You have my sympathy, I do not understand that at all. Maybe he wants you to have a breadth of experience and not an "exotic" set of experiences, to better explore medicine beyond the world of CNA/EMTs. He is a scientist (albeit not a very successful one, but you didn't hear that from me) and not a writer - perhaps his ability to explain that leaves a lot to be desired. I hope your research opportunities come through for you and your exit interview proves fruitful. Yes, you have sated my curiosity. I want to hear no more from you! (I'm just joking about that.)

Pari^2, I have a love/hate relationship with NM. I was born in Albuquerque, lived here until I was 18, went to college in St. Louis for a couple of years(whoo! go Wash U!), then transferred to the University of Washington (whoo! go Seattle!) and then moved back here a few months after I graduated. So I've spent a grand total of about 22 years in Albuquerque. I'm not the sort of person who likes small cities and wilderness, so rural NM is not for me. I like big cities. I like culture. I like museums. I like music. I like food. Albuquerque leaves a lot to be desired on a lot of these fronts. (Well, the food is fantastic in Santa Fe and Taos, but it is way too expensive to eat there more than once a year.) Crime is high. People here are poor. But I'm still here. Mostly because of the people, the way of life, the weather, and the atmosphere.
People in NM are nice. Yes, there are a lot drunks (and you will see people in the nicest neighborhoods buying aquanet early Sunday mornings), a lot of wanna-be gang members, hippies, granolas, etc., but Albuquerque is the sort of place where when someone asks you "how ya doin?" they actually care how you are and they aren't just paying you lip service. People here genuinely care about other people (well, at least the natives do, people from other places stick out like a sore thumb) and I didn't see that in StL or Seattle. I mean, last week I spent 20 mins talking with a cashier at Walgreens just shooting the breeze. (He was a little tired but otherwise ok. He also doesn't think Hillary Clinton would win a presidential election.) Plus, you know, I have friends here and stuff. Oh, and any place that can foster my fantastic - and modest - sense of humor has to be good.
Also, Albuquerque - and NM - are really laid back. It is a nice lifestyle. And it's infectious - I didn't used to be lazy, I swear. People aren't tightly wound at all. It makes it tough to get anything done (I'm sure you saw this when you visited/researched here - especially in the UNM admissions office because if I recall they are sort of in their own world) without a lot of personal initiative. This isn't trying to fight bureaucracy, this is trying to fight other people's laziness. (It helps if you can fake a sweet southern accent, say "howdy!", and call people "honey" and "sweetheart", maybe give them puppy dog eyes, too. A light touch on the hand with the puppy dog eyes goes further than I could ever imagine. But to be fair, that works everywhere.) You can insulate yourself from this (I went to a private high school and knew nothing of this laziness until I moved back after college) but I think it's a lot harder to do if you aren't in a sort of cutthroat, segregated environment - and those are few and far between around here.
The weather speaks for itself. 300+ days of sunshine a year. Summer temps in the low 90's. The sunsets are hard to beat, and you saw the balloon fiesta. (Also, good weather means people work out more often and it's, uh, satisfying to see attractive fit people.) Also, the skiing in Taos and Santa Fe is fantastic and nationally most people do not know about it.
The thing I really like about Albuquerque is that it feels like no other place in the country. My brother's neighborhood in Boston feels just like the neighborhood I lived in while in Seattle. But my neighborhood here, my parents' neighborhood, they feel like Albuquerque. It's tough to explain. Sorry. I'm sure part of it is that Albuquerque is home but I think it goes deeper than that. Part of it may be the high levels of particulate pollution in the air. Plus, there's a butcher around here that sells the best meats I've ever had (organic, too!) and they are cheap as hell. You can't argue with that so don't try.
So, anyway, I desperately want to move away, but the truth is that I've seen other parts of the country and I think I'll probably end up right back here eventually.
I share your frustration about the application process. I totally approached this all in a very cavalier manner and I think I got some bad advice from people.
Hope this helps.

 

[rachmoninov3]

actually, keeping my fingers crossed, a coworker of mine has an MD brother who is big with doctors without borders, and he's taken quite an interest in my over the past couple of years, asking if I've been accepted or not yet. He even asked for my AMCAS application, to see if he can pull some strings for me this time around on some schools on the east coast. I also asked her if he needed any little tech type help on one of the missions...I doubt I'll have the $ to be able to go, but it's worth a shot. Do you think that would be 'exotic' enough? I hope to hear about that sometime this next weekend, depending if Pat's been able to talk to her brother.

 

[jebus]

Do you think that would be 'exotic' enough?

yes. sounds cool, too.
good luck, i'm sort of jealous.

 

[rachmoninov3]

Here's more stuff from one of the docs I work with who knows a doc who used to work for unm:
1. THE MED SCHL FAVORS PERSISTENCE, THE AVERAGE AGE OF THE ENTERING STUDENT IS 27 YR OLD.

2. THEY FAVOR LIFE EXPERIENCE- MATURITY AND VARYING EXPERIENCE. REAPPLICATION IS ENCOURAGED.

3. THEY WANT TO SEE A COMMITMENT TO MEDICINE- HENCE REAPPLICATION. THEY WANT TO SEE VOLUNTEER COMMUNITY ACTIVITIES-- SUCH AS IN A NEIGHBORHOOD HEALTH CLINIC,ETC. RESEARCH IS NICE, BUT NOT ABSOLUTELY NEEDED.

 

[jebus]

Wow, R3, those all sound very familiar!
I wonder if they realize just how demoralizing their (informal) policies are (especially the "reapplication is encouraged" clause). I know a few people who gave up on medicine after being rejected from UNM a couple of times.
Anyway, if you truly want to be a physician and go to UNM then I guess the best advice is to just jump through their hoops and play their game. Once you get in I'm confident you'll get a great clinical education, it may take a little longer than you had hoped, though.
Good luck with your research, etc.