Any JD/Phd's?

[Datadriven]

Hi,

I am currently completing my MA in a non-terminal program and preparing to start a concurrent JD degree alongside my Clinical Psychology PhD studies and have been looking to please connect with people who either have those two degrees or are currently pursuing them. I have several motivations for pursuing the joint degree but would love to hear the pros/cons from those who have gone through concurrent JD/Phd degree programs and, or worked law, public policy, psychology, business with those degrees. I feel that all my Clinical Psychology student colleagues are offering me valuable but often repetitive advice about the two degrees are not incrementally beneficial and that a Forensic Post Doc is a better path (assuming Forensics is one's main focus) but as yet I have not had the opportunity to speak to anyone who has actually completed or is pursuing a JD/PhD.

I am hoping by opening this thread I can begin to understand the additional skills/breadth of opportunities a joint degree can afford, alongside any disadvantages.

Thank you for reading!

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[PsyWife]

Disadvantage: you have to go to law school.

What are your ultimate goals for these two degrees? If you just want to work in policy somehow, then maybe you should think about an MPP (Masters in Public Policy) instead of a JD. It may be more in line with your interests, it's shorter, and it's not law school.

 

[Datadriven]

Thank you for your response. I would like to be able to be flexible across a whole range of opportunities hence my interest in the degree. Children's Mental healthcare legislation is one area I would like to work in, forensics another (I understand that when you go for accreditation your law degree you may be able to waive some of your postdoc requirement). I also could work in corporate/family mediation, family law (custody), trial consultation parent coordination, and high conflict family business work. Did you get a JD, or are you in a joint JD/PHD program?

 

[Born2rumble1st]

I just graduated from law school and will be starting my Ph.D. in the fall. Before you commit to getting a J.D., I would seriously suggest that you look at exactly what you want to do with it. Unless the law school that you plan to attend is a top law school (ranked 20 or higher) or graduate in the top 5% of your class, your law degree is going to be practically useless if you plan on using it to join a law firm. If you want the J.D. in order to gain more insight into the legal field, I can understand that, but you might be better served with the MPH. Law school is HARD, and every single person you will be competing with for an A in your law school classes will be working twice as hard as you will (and have twice the time), because this is their one and only shot to get a job. There will be people in your class who will literally live in the library. You won't be able to do that, because you will have all of your Ph.D. work to do, in addition to the ridiculous amount of work your legal classes will give you. Not to mention that law school is not cheap. Don't throw away graduating debt free for something you might not necessarily need to pursue the career you want.

 

[psychmama]

Born2Rumble makes some great points. I'm a career changer (J.D. first, went back for the Psy.D. years later) but I recall the climate in law school well. Competitive to say the least, and getting a doctorate in Psych was in some ways even harder (although more rewarding IMO). Enter at your own risk! I believe there are ways to combine law and psychology without the dual degree. I'd recommend you at least check this out carefully before making up your mind.

 

[Datadriven]

Hi All,

Thank you for your insight, I dont quite think that this thread is going in the direction I intended. In the sense, that I am not concerned about funding (I will be fully funded across both programs) or how hard or competitive law school is, having been in Psychology for awhile and being done all my PHD and MA classes, and having a graduate background in English I understand that it will be difficult/competitive what i am trying to figure out is what is the PURPOSE of dual degree programs if there isn't any added benefit to them (and yes I know that is a logical fallacy, because existence does not imply benefit) but it seems that there are very few JD/PhD's especially concurrent degree takers who can comment to this thread and its been quite hard trying to get in touch with those with that combined degree who are currently working the community. Additionally I am not concerned about the top 20 issue because of the regional prestige of the law school I would attend...

For those of you who have a JD what was your purpose for making the career change?

 

[PsyWife]

Thank you for your response. I would like to be able to be flexible across a whole range of opportunities hence my interest in the degree. Children's Mental healthcare legislation is one area I would like to work in, forensics another (I understand that when you go for accreditation your law degree you may be able to waive some of your postdoc requirement). I also could work in corporate/family mediation, family law (custody), trial consultation parent coordination, and high conflict family business work. Did you get a JD, or are you in a joint JD/PHD program?

I'm finishing up my JD right now. Honestly, if you don't plan on practicing, I would think about a different degree. As one PP said, you could get an MPH. Or, if you are more interested in mediation or family disputes you could get an MDR (Masters in Dispute Resolution). I think you should try and figure out what you have the most interest in doing and then decide whether or not a JD is really necessary. If you can achieve your goals without a JD, you should. It's extremely expensive, stressful, and time-consuming and would not really be worth it if you don't plan to practice.

 

[jena2nsu]

I took the LSAT before I decided to attend a Clinical Psychology Psy.D. program. Most of the feedback I received was to choose either Clinical Psych or law. I ended up choosing Clinical Psych.

 

[aagman01]

On the flip side, a friend of mine did a combined law/MPP degree. He was able to complete both degrees in 4 years (his program was designed as a combine program, and he was able to take certain courses that counted for both MPP and law degrees jointly).

Disadvantage: you have to go to law school.

What are your ultimate goals for these two degrees? If you just want to work in policy somehow, then maybe you should think about an MPP (Masters in Public Policy) instead of a JD. It may be more in line with your interests, it's shorter, and it's not law school.

 

[Savagebee]

doesnt someone (Nebraska maybe?) offer a PhD JD degree?

Well nevermind. Quick google search makes me feel like an idiot.

Arizona, Stanford, Drexel, etc. Many more combined programs seem to offer it.

Maybe check out some students on a social site?

 

[Datadriven]

Thanks to all who have answered, to clarify I am in a university based PhD Program, and have been accepted to start my JD alongside my PhD research next year. So I am already in joint program but am still contemplating whether to accept as I am not sure the added year it will take me on top of my PhD studies to complete a JD will open up more opportunities for me in the future and yes, I am considering practicing law.

 

[psychmama]

Well if the difference we're talking about is just 1 year, then maybe it's worth it if you come out with a JD and PhD in the end. I'm not sure how combined programs operate, but I imagine they are expressly designed for those with interests in both psych and lw, and so perhaps there's more overlap in curriculum than you'd find in a typical law school program?


Just to clarify -- do you only need 1 year to complete the JD? Or (more likely) are you just starting a combined program and the whole thing will take 6-7 years for both degrees?

 

[ck2k01]

Pull up: Hafemeister, T. L., Ogloff, J. R. P., & Small, M. A. (1990). Training and careers in law and psychology: The perspective of students and graduates of dual degree programs. Behavioral Sciences and the Law, 8, 263-283.

This is the best article I've read thus far about about joint-degree training (I'm a J.D.-Ph.D. student myself). It sums up the benefits, drawbacks, anxieties, etc. that come with the territory. Even though the article is slightly dated, in drawing from my own experiences so far, I concur with a lot of what they say.

I hope you find it helpful.

 

[Datadriven]

Well if the difference we're talking about is just 1 year, then maybe it's worth it if you come out with a JD and PhD in the end. I'm not sure how combined programs operate, but I imagine they are expressly designed for those with interests in both psych and lw, and so perhaps there's more overlap in curriculum than you'd find in a typical law school program?


Just to clarify -- do you only need 1 year to complete the JD? Or (more likely) are you just starting a combined program and the whole thing will take 6-7 years for both degrees?

Yes, totally it will take 6 years to complete both degrees. On average at my school it takes 5 years to get ready to apply for internship. I am currently completing my 3rd year and will be defending my MA before I start my 4th year. It will take 3 years to complete the JD. I will be taking my law classes at night and during the summers. I am hoping (though I have no expectations knowing match rates/the match process) to match locally and to be able to complete my internship while finishing up my law classes, so in this case everything will be done in 6 years, but the JD may end up adding 2 years onto my 5 year PHD track if I match out of state, so total would be 7. It is extremely rare in my program to be applying to internship after 4 years of graduate education.

 

[Datadriven]

Thank you ck2k01, that article is super helpful!