Any less competitive careers similar to radiology?

[surgeon_hopeful]

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Hi,

As my screen name suggests, surgery is by far my first love. But recently after taking physics, which I really enjoyed, I started looking at Radiology and considered it to maybe be a good fallback since surgery is basically impossible to get, but then I realized that Radiology is as if not much more competitive than surgery! Nuclear med looked like a good outlet as well, but I've heard that they are getting pushed out because people would rather hire radiologists than Nuclear Meds, and that now there are very few jobs and most wind up teaching which I would hate. So is there anything similar to radiology that is less competitive, but still has good lifestyle, compensation, etc?

 

[anconeus]

pathology... or marrying a radiologist

 

[eddieberetta]

Hi,

As my screen name suggests, surgery is by far my first love. But recently after taking physics, which I really enjoyed, I started looking at Radiology and considered it to maybe be a good fallback since surgery is basically impossible to get, but then I realized that Radiology is as if not much more competitive than surgery! Nuclear med looked like a good outlet as well, but I've heard that they are getting pushed out because people would rather hire radiologists than Nuclear Meds, and that now there are very few jobs and most wind up teaching which I would hate. So is there anything similar to radiology that is less competitive, but still has good lifestyle, compensation, etc?

uh... who said surgery was competitive?

 

[surgeon_hopeful]

pathology... or marrying a radiologist

How is pathology related to radiology in anyway? Besides, I've heard that pathology is both boring, and very competitive. And marrying a radiologist is a clever remark, I must say, but I don't want to be an A-hole who lives off my wife's salary

To the second reply, are u shizing me?!! Are you implying that neurosurgery, orthopaedic surgery, opthalmology, otholaryngology, and OMFS are easy?! These are practically the hardest things to get into besides MAYBE cardiology, and anesthesiology, and DEFINATELY dermatology? Go to the surgical specialities forum to see who says surgery is competitive.

 

[TxMed]

How is pathology related to radiology in anyway? Besides, I've heard that pathology is both boring, and very competitive. And marrying a radiologist is a clever remark, I must say, but I don't want to be an A-hole who lives off my wife's salary

To the second reply, are u shizing me?!! Are you implying that neurosurgery, orthopaedic surgery, opthalmology, otholaryngology, and OMFS are easy?! These are practically the hardest things to get into besides MAYBE cardiology, and anesthesiology, and DEFINATELY dermatology? Go to the surgical specialities forum to see who says surgery is competitive.

alright sparky, i'm assuming from your lack of basic knowledge that you are not in medical school (and maybe not even in college). so...i will break this down on the 1's and 2's for ya.
1. pathology is the most like rads because...
a. you sit in a room all day
b. you don't see many (if any) patients
c. you have to know alot about everything
d. and in addition... pathology is not competitive...whoever told you that was lying
2. in your post you said surgery, which is generally known to mean general surgery. not ortho, neuro, ent, oto....and no gensurg is not in the same league as rads. much easier to get into.
3. anesthesiology hard to get?!? please look at the report (that was on sdn about a million times) where it says the avg step 1 for each specialty.
4. as far as OMFS...i could be wrong...but i think you have to go to dental school first...then do like 2-3yrs of medical school...then start actual OMFS training.
5. its great that you're thinking about these things now. i'm sure you will be very succesful. but, chill and have some fun. best of luck.


-tm

 

[lokobo]

you just took physics? so does that mean you're still in undergrad?

and what makes you think you won't be competitive enough to do rads?

you need to be confident and work hard, and get to know the right people from the beginning, and all this helps a lot

 

[RadGirl]

He's a sophomore in high school. And a very obsessive one at that. I normally don't search for people's other posts, but I just had to know.

 

[lokobo]

dude you need to chill out and take it easy 🙁

its good to be thinking about the future.. but honestly.. you shouldn't have to worry about this until 1- 2 years before match.

for now, just focus on getting into a good college, and then you have to actually get into med school..

once you're in med school just do your best to get good grades and good scores

AND THEN you can size yourself up to the competition, and see what you have to do.

EDIT: and by the time its time for you to chose, things are bound to be different.

 

[Taurus]

Ditto. Chill out.

Focus on learning how to drive so you can find a date.

 

[Jiminy Cricket]

Hi,

As my screen name suggests, surgery is by far my first love. But recently after taking physics, which I really enjoyed, I started looking at Radiology and considered it to maybe be a good fallback since surgery is basically impossible to get, but then I realized that Radiology is as if not much more competitive than surgery! Nuclear med looked like a good outlet as well, but I've heard that they are getting pushed out because people would rather hire radiologists than Nuclear Meds, and that now there are very few jobs and most wind up teaching which I would hate. So is there anything similar to radiology that is less competitive, but still has good lifestyle, compensation, etc?

I'm gonna give ;you some MONEY advise that if you listen to, you'll do GREAT.

1. Stop listening to the SH** whoever is advising you is saying and have a little fun.

2. Medicine is NOT the most important thing in your life. ENJOY.

3. Keep your career options OPEN and look at other careers that could interest you bc contrary to what your parents think, medicine is not a fast track road to happiness.

4. Get your ass to the gym and work out everyday so you can be buff for the college hotties.

5. High school is sh**....have fun and dont stress. You should be working on who you are going to go to the winter dance with.

6. Ask out the girl who you want to get all up on but you are too wussy to ask out bc she is a 'good friend' and you dont want to 'ruin the friendship'....chances are you wont ever talk to her after high school and that lone time on the couch is time better spent making out then watching a movie.

7. do things that are interesting and fun, bc u will seriously only be (insert whatever age u are) once

8. have fun in college and kick ass on the mcat....its really the biggest part of the pre-med process...relax again, then save the juice for med schl.

some more quick add ons....go to all the schl dances, try to go to prom as many times as possible, ask out hot girls even if u think they are sluts bc after undergrad everyone will be the slut, move into your college dorm early so you can get wasted everyday before school starts and hit on the freshmen hotties before they gain 15.


now get out there and make me proud!

 

[Jiminy Cricket]

oh yeah, masturbation is not evil....its completely normal, so pleasure yourself whenever you like

I'm gonna give ;you some MONEY advise that if you listen to, you'll do GREAT.

1. Stop listening to the SH** whoever is advising you is saying and have a little fun.

2. Medicine is NOT the most important thing in your life. ENJOY.

3. Keep your career options OPEN and look at other careers that could interest you bc contrary to what your parents think, medicine is not a fast track road to happiness.

4. Get your ass to the gym and work out everyday so you can be buff for the college hotties.

5. High school is sh**....have fun and dont stress. You should be working on who you are going to go to the winter dance with.

6. Ask out the girl who you want to get all up on but you are too wussy to ask out bc she is a 'good friend' and you dont want to 'ruin the friendship'....chances are you wont ever talk to her after high school and that lone time on the couch is time better spent making out then watching a movie.

7. do things that are interesting and fun, bc u will seriously only be (insert whatever age u are) once

8. have fun in college and kick ass on the mcat....its really the biggest part of the pre-med process...relax again, then save the juice for med schl.

some more quick add ons....go to all the schl dances, try to go to prom as many times as possible, ask out hot girls even if u think they are sluts bc after undergrad everyone will be the slut, move into your college dorm early so you can get wasted everyday before school starts and hit on the freshmen hotties before they gain 15.


now get out there and make me proud!

 

[sepsis]

uh... who said surgery was competitive?

Umm last years match there was 1 (ONE), let me repeat ONE surgery spot for the scramble.

nuff said.

 

[lokobo]

Umm last years match there was 1 (ONE), let me repeat ONE surgery spot for the scramble.

nuff said.

seriously.. that was shocking

 

[jon62781]

How is pathology related to radiology in anyway? Besides, I've heard that pathology is both boring, and very competitive. And marrying a radiologist is a clever remark, I must say, but I don't want to be an A-hole who lives off my wife's salary

To the second reply, are u shizing me?!! Are you implying that neurosurgery, orthopaedic surgery, opthalmology, otholaryngology, and OMFS are easy?! These are practically the hardest things to get into besides MAYBE cardiology, and anesthesiology, and DEFINATELY dermatology? Go to the surgical specialities forum to see who says surgery is competitive.

First of all, Surgery SUB-SPECIALTIES are difficult to get into.... Neuro, Ortho, Optho, and ENT are definately hard to get into.... Gas and Cards, Not so much... General Surgery is not nearly as competitive as Radiology. From your statements, I'm guessing you are most a MS2... So I would say, find something you like!

By the way.... Radiology is Definately not a back-up. It is one of the 5 most competitive specialties!

 

[colbgw02]

alright sparky

i like it

 

[Llenroc]

Hi,

As my screen name suggests, surgery is by far my first love. But recently after taking physics, which I really enjoyed, I started looking at Radiology and considered it to maybe be a good fallback since surgery is basically impossible to get, but then I realized that Radiology is as if not much more competitive than surgery! Nuclear med looked like a good outlet as well, but I've heard that they are getting pushed out because people would rather hire radiologists than Nuclear Meds, and that now there are very few jobs and most wind up teaching which I would hate. So is there anything similar to radiology that is less competitive, but still has good lifestyle, compensation, etc?

In General Surgery they'll take anyone with half a brain. Often times, they take people with no brain, because that's how you have to be to actually want to do General Surgery.

 

[freddydpt]

... I started looking at Radiology and considered it to maybe be a good fallback since surgery is basically impossible to get, but then I realized that Radiology is as if not much more competitive than surgery!

According to the 2006 Match Stats titled: Match Results for US Seniors Who Chose One Type of Specialty, only 3.6% of applicants went unmatched for those who applied to radiology-diagnostic, while 13.9% went unmatched for general surgery. To give a comparison of unmatched rates: OB 5.5%, Derm 27%, Ortho 12.9%, ENT 16.5%, Emed 4.5%, Radiation Oncology 15.6%, etc.

Radiology is not as competitive as surgery is my conclusion drawn from those stats. But as said earlier, this fluctuates from year to year.

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

According to the 2006 Match Stats titled: Match Results for US Seniors Who Chose One Type of Specialty, only 3.6% of applicants went unmatched for those who applied to radiology-diagnostic, while 13.9% went unmatched for general surgery. To give a comparison of unmatched rates: OB 5.5%, Derm 27%, Ortho 12.9%, ENT 16.5%, Emed 4.5%, Radiation Oncology 15.6%, etc.

Radiology is not as competitive as surgery is my conclusion drawn from those stats. But as said earlier, this fluctuates from year to year.

Not that I give a crap, but this statement is totally false because it fails to take into account self-selection.

 

[freddydpt]

Not that I give a crap, but this statement is totally false because it fails to take into account self-selection.

So, likely, I am totally false... how does self-selection factor into competitiveness?
Thanks!

 

[hans19]

So, likely, I am totally false... how does self-selection factor into competitiveness?
Thanks!

Based on your logic, you are also saying that ortho is less competitive thatn general surgery, due to the higher unmatch rate of general surgery. Everyone you ask will tell you this is patently wrong.

Self selection is simple as this- If you know or think you won't match in a specialty why bother applying? Only those who think they are competitive enough will apply.

Yes, there may be a low unmatched rate for radiology, but look at the board scores of the matched candidates, they are likely to be ~235, with top class rank. Look at your average matched GS candidate, they will probably have a lower class rank and board score.

If you took your average GS candidate, and put him through the radiology match with the same numbers, he might not match.

That is how radiology is more competetive than GS, despite a lower unmatched rate.

 

[Columbia22]

So Hans, what you are trying to say is that Derm and Ortho receives applications from students who don't even have any chance of matching? I would think there would be far more self selection going on in Derm and Ortho than any other field, yet they still have more of an unmatched rate than Rads. Also, how do you explain the higher unmatched rate for fields known to be far less competitive than Rads, such as OB and Emed? How do you explain that Rads is "more self selective" than other fields? Is EMed more self selecting than Ortho and Derm then, since they have a lower unmatched rate? Do you not think that perhaps those stellar applicants who don't match into plastics or ortho end up going into GSurg as their backup route, making it inherently harder for those regular surgery folk to match,and thus, accounting for the higher unmatched rate?

 

[hans19]

So Hans, what you are trying to say is that Derm and Ortho receives applications from students who don't even have any chance of matching? I would think there would be far more self selection going on in Derm and Ortho than any other field, yet they still have more of an unmatched rate than Rads. Also, how do you explain the higher unmatched rate for fields known to be far less competitive than Rads, such as OB and Emed? How do you explain that Rads is "more self selective" than other fields? Is EMed more self selecting than Ortho and Derm then, since they have a lower unmatched rate? Do you not think that perhaps those stellar applicants who don't match into plastics or ortho end up going into GSurg as their backup route, making it inherently harder for those regular surgery folk to match,and thus, accounting for the higher unmatched rate?

WHAT?!?! I don't think read my post carefully.
Regarding your first comment. I never said there WASN'T self selection in dermatology or orthopedics. I think if people don't think they have a realistic chance of matching into derm or ortho, they wont apply to those fields.

I am responding to freddy who said that GS was more competitive than radiology because it had a higher unmatch rate than radiology. What I am saying is that you can not use unmatch rate as a strict measure of competitiveness, because it does not take into consideration the phenomenon of self-selection. Based on freddy's logic general surgery would be more competitive than Orthopedic surgery as well, and that is false. Matched orthopedic residents tend to have higher scores than matched general surgery applicants. If you took the 'average' orthopedic resident and had him reapply for a general surgery position, he is more likely to match than if you took an 'average' general surgery resident and had him reapply for an orthopedic position.

I have never said that radiology is the most self-selective or most competitive field. Only that it is on average more competitive than general surgery, based on the statistics of matched candidates. I am attributing the lower unmatched rate of radiology to self-selection by candidates. I think a more accurate indicator of 'competitiveness' is the average board score and class ranking of matched candidates rather than unmatch rate (which does not take into account self-selectivity.)

 

[random-dude]

In general here are what I think are the most to least competitive fields. This is just the impression I get from the application process/talking with other med students. Feel free to disagree:

(in order most to least)
1. Derm, Plastics, Neurosurg
2. Ortho, ENT, Rads, Urology, RadOnc
3. Emergency Med, Gen Surg, Gas
4. IM, OB-Gyn
5. Family, Peds, PM&R, Psych, Path

Yes it also depends on the program, and yes there are pimps (ie: Step 1 >250/AOA/Nobel prize winner) applying to every field. These are just general categories.

For the OP I'd take a lot of Jiminy Cricket's advice about having fun before medical school. Yeah dances are fun but a long road trip to Canada is an way better. Go to Windsor.

 

[random-dude]

In general here are what I think are the most to least competitive fields. This is just the impression I get from the application process/talking with other med students. Feel free to disagree:

(in order most to least)
1. Derm, Plastics, Neurosurg
2. Ortho, ENT, Rads, Urology, RadOnc
3. Emergency Med, Gen Surg, Gas
4. IM, OB-Gyn
5. Family, Peds, PM&R, Psych, Path

Yes it also depends on the program, and yes there are pimps (ie: Step 1 >250/AOA/Nobel prize winner) applying to every field. These are just general categories.

For the OP I'd take a lot of Jiminy Cricket's advice about having fun before medical school. Yeah dances are fun but a long road trip to Canada is an way better. Go to Windsor.

 

[DCMDtobe]

Last year the Average Step 1 scores for those who matched were:

Rads: 234 = 59th percentile
Gen Surg: 220 = 50th percentile

How you interpret the facts is up to you.

Two common pitfalls:

--moving the mean of a bell curve by 9 percentile points is not very significant.
--rads is competitive and thus I want it -- thus it's a good thing for me to do with the next 30 yrs of my life

 

[roach]

In general here are what I think are the most to least competitive fields. This is just the impression I get from the application process/talking with other med students. Feel free to disagree:

(in order most to least)
1. Derm, Plastics, Neurosurg
2. Ortho, ENT, Rads, Urology, RadOnc
3. Emergency Med, Gen Surg, Gas
4. IM, OB-Gyn
5. Family, Peds, PM&R, Psych, Path

Yes it also depends on the program, and yes there are pimps (ie: Step 1 >250/AOA/Nobel prize winner) applying to every field. These are just general categories.

For the OP I'd take a lot of Jiminy Cricket's advice about having fun before medical school. Yeah dances are fun but a long road trip to Canada is an way better. Go to Windsor.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=4513587&postcount=14

path's not competitive, but i wouldn't put it at the bottom of the last tier either. avg scores are better than peds, fm etc. it doesn't matter though- would rather watch the gen surg and radiology people duke it out.

 

[random-dude]

Sorry I guess I should have clarified my list a little better. I didn't really organize the specialties within the five tiers. I agree that Path is probably more competitve than FP or Peds, I just lumped it in with the less competitive specialties.

Also I realize I left off some specialties, so my apologies to anyone who really likes eye surgery which is probably on the first or second tier.

 

[Faebinder]

Last year the Average Step 1 scores for those who matched were:

Rads: 234 = 59th percentile
Gen Surg: 220 = 50th percentile

How you interpret the facts is up to you.

Two common pitfalls:

--moving the mean of a bell curve by 9 percentile points is not very significant.
--rads is competitive and thus I want it -- thus it's a good thing for me to do with the next 30 yrs of my life

Are you including prelim surgery in that average you are mentioning? Cause that would mess it up.... Only catagorical surgery should be compared. Prelim surgery is definitely easier to get.