Any "old timers" struggling to understand the meaning of new MCATs scores?

[Officer Farva]

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I am comfortable knowing the difference between a 30 and a 25 and a 45. But when I see people post, am I competitive with a 525 or 500 or 480 I get confused.

Any other old-timers out there?

 

[CowboyNiceguy]

You have to compare the percentiles. A 500 is average (25), a 510 is a 31, and a 520 is a 37.

 

[deleted407021]

As was said above -- compare the percentile ranks. Just google "efle MCAT 2015" and the first sdn link will take you to a conversion table graciously put together by @efle.

 

[ChrisMack390]

Less rigorously, you can just think of 510 as ~31. Much lower than that is a problem and much higher is excellent.

 

[efle]

 

[Officer Farva]

Thanks guys! Such a random choice of numbers. They should have done SAT style grading and put each section out of 800. 118-132, what is this? lol

 

[gyngyn]

Thanks guys! Such a random choice of numbers. They should have done SAT style grading and put each section out of 800. 118-132, what is this? lol

They wanted us to focus on the middle (500).
And we did, we just made it 510.

 

[efle]

Thanks guys! Such a random choice of numbers. They should have done SAT style grading and put each section out of 800. 118-132, what is this? lol

3-45 was a weird system too! Apparently they hoped this new system would "emphasize the middle of the curve" centered on 500, since you really only need an MCAT in the mid 20's to be likely to survive med school.

Med schools will of course ignore this and continue favoring the extremely high scorers imo

 

[efle]

They wanted us to focus on the middle (500).

Do you think any med schools will show a difference in median percentiles for old test vs new test, when the new MSAR comes out? Or is pretty much nothing going to change?

 

[gyngyn]

Do you think any med schools will show a difference in median percentiles for old test vs new test, when the new MSAR comes out? Or is pretty much nothing going to change?

Nothing is going to change at the medical school level because of the change in scoring.
I have seen more pre-med advisors give advice that presumes that anything over 500 is acceptable, though.

Edit: I have noticed that nobody has any feelings for scores over 522 the way they used to marvel at scores over 40.

 

[deleted407021]

3-45 was a weird system too! Apparently they hoped this new system would "emphasize the middle of the curve" centered on 500, since you really only need an MCAT in the mid 20's to be likely to survive med school.

Med schools will of course ignore this and continue favoring the extremely high scorers imo

Lol, I feel like adcoms have your table in front of them when the look at scores. "510...Hmm, ok! 31".

 

[CowboyNiceguy]

Do you think any med schools will show a difference in median percentiles for old test vs new test, when the new MSAR comes out? Or is pretty much nothing going to change?

I doubt it will change, based on my experience. My MCAT was only brought up at one interview, and he only said my percentile - not the score. I;m guessing adcoms are converting everyone to a percentile in this transition period.

 

[gyngyn]

Lol, I feel like adcoms have your table in front of them when the look at scores. "510...Hmm, ok! 31".

I spent all morning working on that table!
Efle's was way better formatted...

 

[efle]

I have seen more pre-med advisors give advice that presumes that anything over 500 is acceptable, though.

Just when you think they couldn't be any more useless, they up their game and start actively sabotaging people's chances

 

[GrapesofRath]

Nothing is going to change at the medical school level because of the change in scoring.
I have seen more pre-med advisors give advice that presumes that anything over 500 is acceptable, though.

Edit: I have noticed that nobody has any feelings for scores over 522 the way they used to marvel at scores over 40.

Probably the same ones who write strong committee letters for people with single digit total MCAT scores.

 

[Officer Farva]

Just when you think they couldn't be any more useless, they up their game and start actively sabotaging people's chances

Don't get me started! I went to a "great" but not HYP-level school and you think that office would be more helpful to its students. Our placement to medical school is absolutely abysmal relative to our rank.

 

[sephora89]

I spent all morning working on that table!
Efle's was way better formatted...

I wonder if adcoms with and without SDN accounts utilize his table! I always refer to it.

 

[Lawpy]

They wanted us to focus on the middle (500).
And we did, we just made it 510.

More generally

Slightly off-topic but i think the AAMC did a brilliant job with the new scale even though it looks odd at first glance.

500 = the new average/median score of all test takers
505 = the new average/median score of all DO natriculants
510 = the new average/median score of all MD matriculants
515 = the new average/median score of all mid-tier matriculants
520 = the new average/median score of all Top 20 matriculants

Sure the error bars are +/- 2, but they serve as excellent indicators for where to aim.

 

[Officer Farva]

More generally

Ok, that actually makes a lot of sense.

 

[justadream]

Yes, I feel your pain.

Someone should make a SDN-specific browser plugin that detects new MCAT scores and auto-converts them to the old (and thus superior) scale 😉

 

[Lawpy]

Yes, I feel your pain.

Someone should make a SDN-specific browser plugin that detects new MCAT scores and auto-converts them to the old (and thus superior) scale 😉

Does a calculator count?

 

[redferrari]

Summarizing my take on the topic:
<490: Abysmal
490-500: Lots of work to go
500-505: Meh
505-510: Almost
510-515: Solid
515-520: Commendable
520+: Rockstar

EDIT: My emojis didn't show up.. Fail.

 

[deleted407021]

Does a calculator count?

Mine's 67. Is that good? I don't know anything about the LizzyM score.

 

[Lucca]

Summarizing my take on the topic:
<490: Abysmal
490-500: Lots of work to go
500-505: Meh
505-510: Almost
510-515: Solid
515-520: Commendable
520+: Rockstar

EDIT: My emojis didn't show up.. Fail.

Seems about right given the old score scales

 

[efle]

Mine's 67. Is that good? I don't know anything about the LizzyM score.

Depends if you're from California lol

 

[el_duderino]

I just think of it as 510 is the minimum you really want for MD, and 515+ is great. 520+ is phenomenal.

 

[Spinach Dip]

I have noticed that nobody has any feelings for scores over 522 the way they used to marvel at scores over 40.

That's because 40 is a nice, round number people actually understand. OTOH, 522 seems like a completely random number someone picked out of a hat.

I think the main problem with the new score is the range. (500 +/- 28) The 500 as a median makes sense. The +/- 28 seems like it was selected by a random number generator. If they had picked something like +/- 50 or 100, it would have given a scale which is easier to understand at a glance.

 

[efle]

To be fair a 40+ was also 4x as rare as a 38, it's not an entirely inaccurate perception. For the crazy extremes I bet new system has an advantage, eg 132/132/132 looks better than 14/13/15.

That's because 40 is a nice, round number people actually understand. OTOH, 522 seems like a completely random number someone picked out of a hat.

I think the main problem with the new score is the range. (500 +/- 28) The 500 as a median makes sense. The +/- 28 seems like it was selected by a random number generator. If they had picked something like +/- 50 or 100, it would have given a scale which is easier to understand at a glance.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Well the AAMC seems to have failed with a lot of its goals. Everybody is still comparing old MCAT scores to new MCAT scores. People and schools are still using the MCAT in weights the AAMC doesnt want; ie discriminating against a 513 vs 520 instead of using the MCAT as more of a "competency" type test. Alot of schools and evaulators dont average multiple MCAT scores at all either like the AAMC recommends.

The one thing though it looks like they succeed in though is to muddy up the top of the scoring scale so people would stop "ooing and ahhing" at the very top scores, like 40+ on the old scale. Now those top scores are just a series of random numbers where nobody knows what the cut off for a 40 is on this new scale using percentiles and where it's really hard to get yourself excited about the number 522.

 

[deleted407021]

Well the AAMC seems to have failed with a lot of its goals. Everybody is still comparing old MCAT scores to new MCAT scores. People and schools are still using the MCAT in weights the AAMC doesnt want; ie discriminating against a 513 vs 520 instead of using the MCAT as more of a "competency" type test. Alot of schools and evaulators dont average multiple MCAT scores at all either like the AAMC recommends.

The one thing though it looks like they succeed in though is to muddy up the top of the scoring scale so people would stop "ooing and ahhing" at the very top scores, like 40+ on the old scale. Now those top scores are just a series of random numbers where nobody knows what the cut off for a 40 is on this new scale using percentiles and where it's really hard to get yourself excited about the number 522.

It's perhaps too early to really see their goals come to fruition. I imagine that they haven't failed, but instead will more or less accomplish their ends when the new scale really becomes the norm and how we thing about the exam, several more cycles down the road.

 

[el_duderino]

Well the AAMC seems to have failed with a lot of its goals. Everybody is still comparing old MCAT scores to new MCAT scores. People and schools are still using the MCAT in weights the AAMC doesnt want; ie discriminating against a 513 vs 520 instead of using the MCAT as more of a "competency" type test. Alot of schools and evaulators dont average multiple MCAT scores at all either like the AAMC recommends.

The one thing though it looks like they succeed in though is to muddy up the top of the scoring scale so people would stop "ooing and ahhing" at the very top scores, like 40+ on the old scale. Now those top scores are just a series of random numbers where nobody knows what the cut off for a 40 is on this new scale using percentiles and where it's really hard to get yourself excited about the number 522.

It's been exactly one year. Obviously no one will be talking about 35 and 40 in ten years. It'll take some time to get nimble with the new scores, but it'll happen.

I think that your second paragraph really encapsulates their primary goal. "How close are you to 40" doesn't have the wow factor anymore, because that ~98% threshhold doesn't have a nice round number.

 

[Lawpy]

It's been exactly one year. Obviously no one will be talking about 35 and 40 in ten years. It'll take some time to get nimble with the new scores, but it'll happen.

I think that your second paragraph really encapsulates their primary goal. "How close are you to 40" doesn't have the wow factor anymore, because that ~98% threshhold doesn't have a nice round number.

That means the AAMC will have accomplished its objectives in the long run... which is really what's important here.

 

[efle]

That means the AAMC will have accomplished its objectives in the long run... which is really what's important here.

No way, not even a little bit. They want the MCAT to be treated like a pass/fail competency check, but that's a pipe dream.

Though, they could force that scenario by actually returning scores as only pass/fail. At the least, they could fuzzy things up and report only deciles or some such, to stop 99th percentile scores helping more than 91st. Wonder what stops them.

 

[rilte4]

I am comfortable knowing the difference between a 30 and a 25 and a 45. But when I see people post, am I competitive with a 525 or 500 or 480 I get confused.

Any other old-timers out there?

All I know is I will forever blame the AAMC for the three seconds of sheer terror between receiving my score and converting it back to the old scale. (This was months ago, when the new scale felt completely foreign.)

 

[Lawpy]

No way, not even a little bit. They want the MCAT to be treated like a pass/fail competency check, but that's a pipe dream.

Though, they could force that scenario by actually returning scores as only pass/fail. At the least, they could fuzzy things up and report only deciles or some such, to stop 99th percentile scores helping more than 91st. Wonder what stops them.

I'm curious what happened few years ago. Like late 1990s and early 2000s. Perhaps @gyngyn @mimelim and others can give insight since i'm getting mixed messages. But was the MCAT really emphasized in discrete scales during that time? Or was something like just breaking a 33 makes you super-competitive for everywhere. I also heard that the MCAT was also optional back then. That would be close to competency-based requirements in the past.... which could be replicated again in the future.

 

[p0gono]

No way, not even a little bit. They want the MCAT to be treated like a pass/fail competency check, but that's a pipe dream.

Though, they could force that scenario by actually returning scores as only pass/fail. At the least, they could fuzzy things up and report only deciles or some such, to stop 99th percentile scores helping more than 91st. Wonder what stops them.

Haha the WUSTLs and Penns would just administer their own tests.

 

[efle]

Haha the WUSTLs and Penns would just administer their own tests.

Yeah or GPA would just double in importance with heavy favoritism of familiar schools

 

[GrapesofRath]

The average MCATs of the Harvards of the world has gone up considerably due to more people taking the test and increased number of applicants. It's not that schools "cared less" about the MCAT in 2003, it's just your average score in a class is a by product of the people who are applying. Some schools might put a little less weight in numbers(ie UCSF vs WashU) but by and large a med schools class statistics are all about the stats of the people applying, not some explicit decision a school is making on how they view the MCAT.

Now the MCAT in the 80's and 90's was optional in many circumstances(JHU it was optional until 94) but hte MCAT of that era was way way different. They didnt even introduce passages into the MCAT until 1990. There are schools that took it more seriously once it started testing skills they thought were more relevant to success in medical school and medicine.

Back in the early 2000's admissions committtee members I know tell me 11's on a section was the golden ticket. 11/11/11 would get you noticed at alot of the big names. Based off what I just googled Harvard's average MCAT back in 2003 was a 33. As a more recent example, NYU's median MCAT not all that long ago was a 33. Today that's their 10th percentile MCAT.

A test where only 60,000 are taking the test and where only the top 4% can get a 36 means around 2,000 will end up with a 36+. If you jack it up to 100,000 people taking the test, suddenly now you are close to 4,000 people with a 36+(these are hypothetical numbers not based off facts). But the number of top 20 schools and their class sizes hasnt changed. So now there are more high scores competing. That'll jack up the average MCAT fast.

 

[aalamruad]

All I know is I will forever blame the AAMC for the three seconds of sheer terror between receiving my score and converting it back to the old scale. (This was months ago, when the new scale felt completely foreign.)

Aren't the scores reported along with percentiles?

 

[rilte4]

Aren't the scores reported along with percentiles?

They are, which was a relief. Not knowing how close/far I'd landed from my target score was what mostly made me feel like a fish out of water for those first few seconds. This was largely because no one really spoke about scores in terms of percentiles until a few months ago, and the one new AAMC exam released at the time didn't give you a percentile score or a scaled score - only percentage correct. Aka no feels.

 

[efle]

didn't give you a percentile score or a scaled score - only percentage correct. Aka no feels.

Man I would have been freaking out if I had no idea how my practice exams were going relative to the mean. Glad to have dodged that ordeal

 

[gyngyn]

I'm curious what happened few years ago. Like late 1990s and early 2000s. Perhaps @gyngyn @mimelim and others can give insight since i'm getting mixed messages. But was the MCAT really emphasized in discrete scales during that time? Or was something like just breaking a 33 makes you super-competitive for everywhere. I also heard that the MCAT was also optional back then. That would be close to competency-based requirements in the past.... which could be replicated again in the future.

The MCAT has always been important. It has been optional in some programs (Bac-MD...) but it defines you so much since it is the only standardized variable. When I took it there were 5 components (I think). I remember verbal, quant, bio, chem and physics. The scale was 1 to 15 for each. Individuals have always had their favorite sub-score but only the total median score was used (in the aggregate) to compare schools.

I can remember admissions committee battles in the seventies that sounded just like they do today.

 

[efle]

it defines you more than any other variable

Surprised to hear this from your experiences, considering the MCAT ranges for the UCs span down to 30 or even high 20s

 

[gyngyn]

Surprised to hear this from your experiences, considering the MCAT ranges for the UCs span down to 30 or even high 20s

It is the lynchpin around which everything else turns.
A candidate can still be worth it, but this is where the argument begins.

 

[GrapesofRath]

It is the lynchpin around which everything else turns.
A candidate can still be worth it, but this is where the argument begins.

Do you mean the argument begins with the MCAT and GPA(ie academic measures in general) or just the MCAT?

 

[gyngyn]

Do you mean the argument begins with the MCAT and GPA(ie academic measures in general) or just the MCAT?

Almost everybody has a good gpa. They don't have the same school or major or years in college, though.
The MCAT is the same for everybody.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Both but most everybody has a good gpa. They didn't have the same school or major or years in college.
The MCAT is the same for everybody.

Indeed which is what makes the opposite low GPA high MCAT situations interesting. There is a very very wide spectrum of possible results for those applications. Anything from multiple top 10 acceptances to still getting completely shut out even after multiple application cycles arent surprising occurences for such applicants at all.

 

[starspells]

Almost everybody has a good gpa. They didn't have the same school or major or years in college, though.
The MCAT is the same for everybody.

Wish all adcomms thought like this 🙁

I feel like this is an age old debate where some schools place more importance on GPA where others place more importance on the MCAT

 

[starspells]

Indeed which is what makes the opposite low GPA high MCAT situations interesting. There is a very very wide spectrum of possible results for those applications. Anything from multiple top 10 acceptances to still getting completely shut out even after multiple application cycles arent surprising occurences for such applicants at all.

It's the saddest thing ever! I feel like with the exception of top 10 or even top 20 where they have a surplus of applicants with both high gpa and high mcat, that low GPA students who've demonstrated a strong trend and aced the MCAT should be on equal footing with the typical applicant that tends to be accepted at the majority of schools. I know many schools do treat applicants like this but definitely not all.

 

[gyngyn]

Indeed which is what makes the opposite low GPA high MCAT situations interesting. There is a very very wide spectrum of possible results for those applications. Anything from multiple top 10 acceptances to still getting completely shut out even after multiple application cycles arent surprising occurences for such applicants at all.

Unexplained dissonance makes everyone uneasy.