Any Practicing SoCal Kaiser Anes MDs?

[PrvAnesMD]

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Hello to Everyone,

This question is addressed to SoCal Kaiser Anesthesiologists currently in practice but I would love to hear everyone's opinion/hints/words of wisdom/etc.

A quick bit of introduction: I am a young Anesthesiologist in SoCal w/ a private job which I have been at for a few years. I make good money, can take vacation when I want (obviously unpaid) but have very poor working conditions/horrible lifestyle.

I know if I go to Kaiser I will make less money but I have no idea how much less? Can anyone tell me what the starting salary for a guy w/ 5-10 years of experience is coming in to Kaiser? How does it go up? How about benefits? Do they add up in any significant way? For example my current malpractice/disability/health insurance costs are about $40K/yr (pre-tax dollars straight out of my pocket), does Kaiser cover all of that for physicians?

And more importantly how is the lifestyle for a guy starting out in the Kaiser system? I read a number of posts that indicate three weeks vacation, but then there is also one month sabbatical, right? How about the hours? I am easily putting in 80 hours a week and on weeks where I am on a heavy call schedule I can put in 100-110 hours. As a private practice MD I have worked 27 hours straight (and have come back the next day at 700 for another 12 hours. As you can imagine the Mrs. is not very happy with these hours and she and I want to explore the Kaiser option and see if we can get a better life style in exchange for a cut in pay.

Sorry for all the questions. I interviewed with Kaiser straight out of residency and they seemed to be a long term game (i.e. if you worked for them for a few years you didn't do so well but if you stayed on long term you did as well or better then the private guys).

Any and all advice is appreciated regarding Kaiser. I wouldn't also mind hearing from non-Kaiser private guys if this is typical for them. TIA!

 

[olaf]

I'm in pp also but have a couple friends with kaiser in Oregon. They work on units. One unit = 4 hrs. They have to do an average of 9 units per week (36hrs). If they do more you can store up these units and take more time off or cash them in and make more $. Malpractice and health insurance are covered. Not sure about disability. Supposedly the retirement benifits are great but the pay is below average. 250ish? Suppose its similar in so cal but not sure. I hear ya on the over working thing brother. Good luck

 

[imfrankie]

I spoke to the Kaiser folks a while back and recall the salary was low 2s in SoCal. With that said, it used to be (unless I'm mistaken) that retiring with them meant health insurance for life. After 3 yrs or so I believe you can become a share holder of sorts. Don't know what that equates to in done-arrows. They cover all incidentals, however.

 

[PrvAnesMD]

Thanks for the replies guys. I am not sure about Kaiser Oregon but here in Ca pay seems to be definitely hourly based.I expected the pay to be low and like I said I'll take a cut for a while (from what I recall Kaiser docs catch up in a few years to private guys) as long as my lifestyle improves. One of the reasons I went into anesthesia was so that I could have a reasonable life style and spend time w/ my family. That is certainly not happening right now.

 

[imfrankie]

36 hours a week for you would be a pleasant change, eh? Good luck. Life isn't about the moolah. I know a lot of colleagues who are loaded, but wish they'd spent more time with their kids when growing up.

 

[PrvAnesMD]

36 hours a week for you would be a pleasant change, eh? Good luck. Life isn't about the moolah. I know a lot of colleagues who are loaded, but wish they'd spent more time with their kids when growing up.

Sorry, I don't follow you. 36 hours/wk is 1/2 to 1/3 of what I work now. So If could cut my work ours by 2/3s that would be fantastic. 36 hrs/wk works out to less than 8 hour days w/ the weekends off. Plenty of time for the kids/family/hobbies/etc. Are you trying to say you work less then that?

 

[imfrankie]

I am not trying to say anything like that. Olaf said they are required to do 36 hours/week, which sounds like a big change from what you have now.

 

[PrvAnesMD]

I am not trying to say anything like that. Olaf said they are required to do 36 hours/week, which sounds like a big change from what you have now.

Sorry, the "Eh" threw me off. Hell, these days it seems like everyone outside of Ca is making mad money, w/ 1/20th the living cost working 4 days a week. Plus I am a little bleary eyed being on a 12 hr call today w/ post back to back 24hour calls w/ another 24 hour call looking at me tomorrow. My apologies again.

 

[imfrankie]

No worries bro. I feel your pain--had to get out of California myself. Let us know what you learn about Kaiserland.

 

[Jay K]

it seems like everyone outside of Ca is making mad money, w/ 1/20th the living cost working 4 days a week.

Not everybody, bro. Other than dentists and internists, I don't know anybody who works 4 days a week, although I do know some non-call taking physicians. I feel you, man... You need to get out of CA.

 

[BIS40]

i was in Cali for 1/2 yr due to relationship............great weather but southern cali anesthesia was rough. Cali notoriously work like crazy for decent pay, here in NY I know some friends who didnt go back after training because of that. Interviewed a bunch with kaiser, was getting competitive because was becoming one of only stable jobs (ie facility not selling or contract not getting stolen out) with benefits, retirement etc. I heard Northern cali kaiser is different entity and pays better than southern for different reasons. People there seem to love and hate it- they tell you how to practice , what to use , how much, etc. mucho annoying
plus due to bad hires, most southern cali Kaiser's started only giving part time as an audition per se, than offering full time if they liked you- this is tough unless you have other work and flex schedule.
All in all, people suck conditions up there as sunshine tax i guess, but marrying rich or lotto would definitely help there 🙂

 

[IlDestriero]

A few years ago I was looking around and kaiser had an opening in SoCal. I told them i was bringing fellowship training and several years of proven quality service both solo and in a care team, they could call anyone. Full time or no dice. They didn't want to interview me any more. No way I'm giving up a job and going anyplace without a real contract. This policy, if still in place, limits their ability to attract quality staff.
Their pay scale is confusing and they wouldn't give me the details before the interview. That's not helping either.

 

[PrvAnesMD]

Thanks to everyone for the f/u. California has become quite toxic specially to anesthesia. The cost of living is astronomical, taxes just got a major raise, public schools are bad (in most areas), and there is the annual "we need to cut medical pay" talk. There is a glut of anesthesiologists here so hospitals are getting bolder and bolder with their demands on groups. Don't like it no problem there is someone out there waiting to underbid you. The sunshine is nice but the main reason for my staying is that my wife and I both have family here and they are a great help.

Kaiser's do still have the per diem deal going on (I don't know how wide spread it is) but believe it or not that is becoming a norm for most places. New grads wanting to stay in Ca are having a VERY hard time getting a stable job and the recent CRNA ruling has not helped. I know of one surgery center personally were the anesthesiologist lost their contracts and are replaced by CRNAs. The surgeons pay the CRNAs 1/3 of what the anesthesiologists were making and pocketing the rest. Unfortunately the local programs keep churning out residents instead of cutting back. Anesthesiologists have always been their own worse enemy.

 

[PrvAnesMD]

ibut marrying rich or lotto would definitely help there 🙂

Well, I guess I could still win the lotto

 

[deleted126335]

Thanks to everyone for the f/u. California has become quite toxic specially to anesthesia. The cost of living is astronomical, taxes just got a major raise, public schools are bad (in most areas), and there is the annual "we need to cut medical pay" talk. There is a glut of anesthesiologists here so hospitals are getting bolder and bolder with their demands on groups. Don't like it no problem there is someone out there waiting to underbid you. The sunshine is nice but the main reason for my staying is that my wife and I both have family here and they are a great help.

Kaiser's do still have the per diem deal going on (I don't know how wide spread it is) but believe it or not that is becoming a norm for most places. New grads wanting to stay in Ca are having a VERY hard time getting a stable job and the recent CRNA ruling has not helped. I know of one surgery center personally were the anesthesiologist lost their contracts and are replaced by CRNAs. The surgeons pay the CRNAs 1/3 of what the anesthesiologists were making and pocketing the rest. Unfortunately the local programs keep churning out residents instead of cutting back. Anesthesiologists have always been their own worse enemy.

The coasts were the worst in the tight market of the 90s. Sounds like they are/will be again.

 

[cchoukal]

Every ucsf grad who wanted a private practice job in the bay area had one by Christmas this year. I'm sure there are bad groups and bad markets, but there are some bright spots out here.