Anyone else applying for Oral Pathology?

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jes1ca

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PM me and we can talk about programs unless anyone else knows more info about oral path programs.

thanks!

Jessica
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anyone?

anyone have any idea how competitive pathology is?
 
I believe the American Academy is very very tiny. Maybe around 30-40 practicing Board-Certified OP's right now and most either doing biopsies or academics. I can't imagine it being a very competitive residency.
 
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based on what i have heard at my school they are happy to get around 1 application a year or so. hope that helps.
 
I've poked through the Oral Path site at UNC, and (please don't skewer me for judging people by their names) it seems like most of the residents are international.
 
sarah_bellum said:
I've poked through the Oral Path site at UNC, and (please don't skewer me for judging people by their names) it seems like most of the residents are international.
Click to expand...

Are you thinking of radiology? We currently only have one path resident, Dr. Rokos, and he is not international. Great guy, though! Path is a very interesting field and definitely needs good people.
 
Dukie said:
Are you thinking of radiology? We currently only have one path resident, Dr. Rokos, and he is not international. Great guy, though! Path is a very interesting field and definitely needs good people.
Click to expand...


I'm thinking of everything. I'm coming into dentistry as a career change, and I thought I'd get a chance to be exposed to everything (even the comparatively obscure specialties) at UNC. As I don't begin school until August, I think it'd be a little presumptuous to say "I'm thinking of radiology."

I will say that for me, money is no object. I've worked as a teacher making $21K/yr, and I was content. If I get into it, and I decide that I like the detective work of Oral Path (or any other specialty) above all other things, then I plan on pursuing it as hard as I possibly can. All I know for sure is that I'd like to live the rest of my life in the state of NC.

The international note I posted above was just in relation to their names. I'm looking forward to meeting folks from all over the world.

EDIT -
I just realized how poorly I misread the post above.
HA!

Yeah - I'm pretty sure I was looking at the OMFR site, not OMFP. All of the above still stands, however. 🙂
 
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awww, well no one knows and as far as i know, no one else is applying. does anyone know if there is a program at emory? i can't find anything but medical pathology....

btw-i think there are between 250-350 board-certified oral pathologists.
 
NC is supposedly a great place to practice dentistry. I can't really say much about oral path in NC or any state for that matter. You can guarantee very little/no patient contact... not sure if that's a good thing for you or not. I would expect a very limited income earning potential which isn't a big concern unless you have big school loans. Personally, I can't imagine suffering through dental school to do path as I don't think it's as glamourous as CSI makes it out to be... just seem like unnecessary torture. To each his own though. I doubt it's very competitive like other specialties. Best of luck with whatever you do.
 
pietrodds said:
NC is supposedly a great place to practice dentistry. I can't really say much about oral path in NC or any state for that matter. You can guarantee very little/no patient contact... not sure if that's a good thing for you or not. I would expect a very limited income earning potential which isn't a big concern unless you have big school loans. Personally, I can't imagine suffering through dental school to do path as I don't think it's as glamourous as CSI makes it out to be... just seem like unnecessary torture. To each his own though. I doubt it's very competitive like other specialties. Best of luck with whatever you do.
Click to expand...

I certainly agree with you about the patient contact. However, I do know that one of the oral pathologists at UNC is the highest paid dentist in the school. She does reports for people all over the state (and country?) and apparently testifies in court a lot regarding dentists missing oral cancers and such. She certainly could be the exception to the rule- I have no idea. That being said, if you love it, I say go for it. It's a very important and worthwhile field.
 
Dukie said:
I certainly agree with you about the patient contact. However, I do know that one of the oral pathologists at UNC is the highest paid dentist in the school. She does reports for people all over the state (and country?) and apparently testifies in court a lot regarding dentists missing oral cancers and such. She certainly could be the exception to the rule- I have no idea. That being said, if you love it, I say go for it. It's a very important and worthwhile field.
Click to expand...

i'll vouch for that. She reads tons of biopsys from all over the country, and if I remember right, the school paper put her at making over $600k/yr.
 
jes1ca said:
anyone?

anyone have any idea how competitive pathology is?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing maybe at least high 80s on boards and top 30% of class would put you in a good running. I would go far as to suggest research experience too.

Oral path isn't popular but there aren't many positions available nationwide to begin with.

I once thought of oral path myself ( since the lifestyle suits me ) but I find the field to be too tedious for my tastes.
 
Squished Rat said:
i'll vouch for that. She reads tons of biopsys from all over the country, and if I remember right, the school paper put her at making over $600k/yr.
Click to expand...


I'm interested in oral path.

Can someone confirm a realistic average salary for an experienced oral pathologist (not a new graduated resident).

I just want to know what I'm getting myself into, if I decide to go into this speciality, and I know that 600K, is nothing near what the avg pathologist would get paid.
 
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mustang99 said:
I'm interested in oral path.

Can someone confirm a realistic average salary for an experienced oral pathologist (not a new graduated resident).

I just want to know what I'm getting myself into, if I decide to go into this speciality, and I know that 600K, is nothing near what the avg pathologist would get paid.
Click to expand...

I think most oral pathologists work in academic settings, so you'd probably have to be on salary as determined by the university that hires you. But I'm guess you could supplement that salary by reading biopsies and doing consulting work. We had a few oral pathologists on staff at my GPR, I think one or two were full time and the other one practiced GP and was appointed to the hospital as a consultant. We also have a new volunteer attending here in ortho who is a dual specialist in private practice - ortho and oral path. I'm not sure what he does with all this training, I'll find out when he comes in next time.

At all the recent ortho meetings I go to, the latest thing they talk about is cone beam scans being done on patients and having an oral radiologist to read them to detect pathology in the areas outside of the mouth that the scans pick up. It's not the same as oral pathology, but I couldn't believe the number of times I have now heard mentioned "We took a scan, look at all the cool stuff we found. We had the oral radiologist at ____ read it for $78 per scan to cover our butts."
 
mustang99 said:
I'm interested in oral path.

Can someone confirm a realistic average salary for an experienced oral pathologist (not a new graduated resident).

I just want to know what I'm getting myself into, if I decide to go into this speciality, and I know that 600K, is nothing near what the avg pathologist would get paid.
Click to expand...


At our school the salaries of our OMFPs range from 121K to just over 300K. It is important to note though that pay in a university/academic setting does not always depend on degrees/certificates, but has a lot to do with university politics and the official positions held.
 
Count Orlok said:
At our school the salaries of our OMFPs range from 121K to just over 300K. It is important to note though that pay in a university/academic setting does not always depend on degrees/certificates, but has a lot to do with university politics and the official positions held.
Click to expand...


Ouch - 121K.

Thanks for the comment
 
Thanks Gryffindor.



gryffindor said:
I think most oral pathologists work in academic settings, so you'd probably have to be on salary as determined by the university that hires you. But I'm guess you could supplement that salary by reading biopsies and doing consulting work. We had a few oral pathologists on staff at my GPR, I think one or two were full time and the other one practiced GP and was appointed to the hospital as a consultant. We also have a new volunteer attending here in ortho who is a dual specialist in private practice - ortho and oral path. I'm not sure what he does with all this training, I'll find out when he comes in next time.

At all the recent ortho meetings I go to, the latest thing they talk about is cone beam scans being done on patients and having an oral radiologist to read them to detect pathology in the areas outside of the mouth that the scans pick up. It's not the same as oral pathology, but I couldn't believe the number of times I have now heard mentioned "We took a scan, look at all the cool stuff we found. We had the oral radiologist at ____ read it for $78 per scan to cover our butts."
Click to expand...
 
ItsGavinC said:
That's not bad for a starting position in academics, without any research completed or any articles published and no previous experience. Sheesh, whaddya want?
Click to expand...

The person getting the 121K is not fresh out of the box, they have been on faculty at various universities for over 10 years now. So, I am sure they have published at least a little in that time.
 
121K is just the salary. Being an employee at a large university also brings lots of benefits, such as being able to get affordable health insurance, participation in employer sponsored retirement plans, life, disability, and malpractice insurances, and other benefits such as tuition benefits for your kids (if you are there long enough). We get a gym membership and a free bus pass as employees at our university. All of that stuff would have to be paid out of pocket in private practice so these benefits help augment what appears to be a small salary.
 
gryffindor said:
121K is just the salary. Being an employee at a large university also brings lots of benefits, such as being able to get affordable health insurance, participation in employer sponsored retirement plans, life, disability, and malpractice insurances, and other benefits such as tuition benefits for your kids (if you are there long enough). We get a gym membership and a free bus pass as employees at our university. All of that stuff would have to be paid out of pocket in private practice so these benefits help augment what appears to be a small salary.
Click to expand...

An excellent, but often overlooked point by people wanting the bottom line and a reason why salary discussions usually don't get to far. Thanks for bringing this up because it is truly an excellent point.😀 You forgot to factor sick days and vacation into that, which come out of pocket in private practice. This alone is what drives many to academics.
 
Count Orlok said:
An excellent, but often overlooked point by people wanting the bottom line and a reason why salary discussions usually don't get to far. Thanks for bringing this up because it is truly an excellent point.😀 You forgot to factor sick days and vacation into that, which come out of pocket in private practice. This alone is what drives many to academics.
Click to expand...

I knew I was forgetting something, I guess I take those for granted right now! You also may get paid time to travel to professional meetings and likely reimbursement for your travel expenses. Yes, lots of benefits that come out of pocket in private practice, although the potential to make a lot more money exists in private practice hence more people are attracted to it.
 
Thanks for all the posts! I'm still applying and would love to talk to anyone else who is too. There is a total void of threads on applying for this speciality though.

I hope that I'm gonna be competitive enough. 🙂 I don't think pathology is a field that people go into to make $$$, mostly for people who love pathology. I spent one day at an OP program (cause my school doesn't have one) and I was SOLD.

There are 11 programs witha whole smattering of certificate, masters and PhD requirements.
 
The question was not really answered. Does anyone know what the academic average base salaries are for an assistant, associate and professor in OP (I think they were around 70K 0-5yrs, 90K 5-20yrs, 130K 20-25 yrs respectively for general dentistry professors)?
*Please note these were most likely averages and the extreme highs and lows were probably thrown out

A source would be nice too--even if you just ask your faculty for a range.

Thanks.
 
metamorph said:
The question was not really answered. Does anyone know what the academic average base salaries are for an assistant, associate and professor in OP (I think they were around 70K 0-5yrs, 90K 5-20yrs, 130K 20-25 yrs respectively for general dentistry professors)?
*Please note these were most likely averages and the extreme highs and lows were probably thrown out

A source would be nice too--even if you just ask your faculty for a range.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

It is very hard to answer. ADEA has posted pay scales by region and by public and pvt universities. Those are averages. It depends on supply, demand and the universities financial status. I just heard that due to finances, one university has had to lay off all part time faculty. Several have job freezes. Benefits and "extras" vary - like do you get matching retirement benefits, are you allowed a pvt practice/or biopsy service. Who keeps fees for outside seminars. Some schools will pay you (no vacation time needed) and allow you to keep the honorium - others say all extra pay goes to them.

You also have to remember the cost of living. Some schools seem like they are paying more but it cost so much more to live there.

Also depends if its a 4 day weeks, 5 day week, Full time for a year, full time only for the regular academic years (like Sept - May), how much contact time (some demand near 100% contact, others 50% contact - (in 10 clinic sessions some get development and reseach time).

Also on tenure track vs clinical track, the tenure requirements, vacation time, and i can go on and on.

sorry this does not help much
 
I forgot to add - I love teaching and mentoring. I volunteer to teach internationally. Some of my residents after only a few year make more than me....

If you love what you are doing, and can make a living... life is fun and rewarding.

When I was full time at Louisville, many of the students are in education, and many full time.

If I went into private practice of TMJ/pain or took another specialty besides Oral Path and Oral Medicine... I probably would be so bored that I would have so much money I would retire.

I am not rich, but love what i do.
 
Bump and back to the original topic...anyone else doing oral path next year?
 
I'll be at University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill 🙂
 
Haha thanks! Except I'm like a foot taller than her. 🙂
 
Thanks, rarm1!

Just in case it helps anyone else who applies to oral pathology cause I found no information on SDN, I applied to three programs: Iowa, UNC and Harvard. Pathology has no match and I was lucky enough to be accepted to all three although timing was terrible to coordinate all on my own. All three were excellent and the people in all departments are wonderful. I could have had an excellent residency at any of the three and Iowa and Harvard have surgical rotations at some of the best hospitals in the nation. All the residents seem happy and adjusted and have good faculty support. And it was difficult to turn down Harvard, which is beautiful and possessing some of the top minds in Oral Pathology.

In the end, I chose UNC because I felt it was a good fit for me and my fiancee is practicing in the area. I am a good student (like in the top 10 in my class with good board scores-like low 90s). I don't think you need those kind of grades to be an oral pathologist though.

I have lots of research experience and some science papers and I was a class officer and a national officer for some organizations. I never saw another person be interviewed while I was there and I am not sure if they had interviewed anyone else when I went. I am not a North Carolina resident or an Iowa resident or a Massachusettes resident. I hope that helps someone who wants to be an oral pathologist. 😀
 
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I think Dr. Murrah is a good teacher and you'll enjoy your time there. Also, you are the first person I can remember beig at UNC pathology coming from out of dental school...every other resident I saw during my time there was a second career dentist...practiced general dentistry or OMFS for years before going back for pathology.
 
Congrats jes1ca!

Info is a little scarce on the different OMP programs--the UNC website says the OMP section is under construction.

Will you receive a stipend, do you have to pay tuition, or a combination of the two? Is that typical of most programs? --Just trying to figure out how I would survive without taking on more student loan debt.

Did I miss Harvard on the AAOMP list of accredited training programs? If they are not accredited, does anyone know why?
http://www.aaomp.org/students/omp-training-programs.php

And how does an OP repay ~$320,000 in tuition to Harvard?
http://www.hsdm.harvard.edu/ASP-HTML/PDF-files/ORALPATH-COA-0809.pdf
--estimated tuition link

What are the pros and cons of getting only a certificate/masters vs a PhD?
 
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Both Iowa and UNC pay you a stipend and you pay tuition.
Iowa gives you around $17000 and you pay around 6,000
UNC gives you around $13000 and you pay 4,000 instate and 25,000 out of state

I'm currently working on NC residency.

Iowa and UNC are both MS programs. Harvard is DMSc. I don't know that much about PhD programs.

Jessica
 
rarm1 said:
It is very hard to answer. ADEA has posted pay scales by region and by public and pvt universities. Those are averages. It depends on supply, demand and the universities financial status. I just heard that due to finances, one university has had to lay off all part time faculty. Several have job freezes. Benefits and "extras" vary - like do you get matching retirement benefits, are you allowed a pvt practice/or biopsy service. Who keeps fees for outside seminars. Some schools will pay you (no vacation time needed) and allow you to keep the honorium - others say all extra pay goes to them.

You also have to remember the cost of living. Some schools seem like they are paying more but it cost so much more to live there.

Also depends if its a 4 day weeks, 5 day week, Full time for a year, full time only for the regular academic years (like Sept - May), how much contact time (some demand near 100% contact, others 50% contact - (in 10 clinic sessions some get development and reseach time).

Also on tenure track vs clinical track, the tenure requirements, vacation time, and i can go on and on.

sorry this does not help much
Click to expand...


What do you think about an Oral Pathologist's liability?
Do you ever feel more at risk for larger lawsuits than being a general dentist--ie, more risk for death or bad outcomes?
 
jes1ca said:
Thanks, rarm1!

Just in case it helps anyone else who applies to oral pathology cause I found no information on SDN, I applied to three programs: Iowa, UNC and Harvard. Pathology has no match and I was lucky enough to be accepted to all three although timing was terrible to coordinate all on my own. All three were excellent and the people in all departments are wonderful. I could have had an excellent residency at any of the three and Iowa and Harvard have surgical rotations at some of the best hospitals in the nation. All the residents seem happy and adjusted and have good faculty support. And it was difficult to turn down Harvard, which is beautiful and possessing some of the top minds in Oral Pathology.

In the end, I chose UNC because I felt it was a good fit for me and my fiancee is practicing in the area. I am a good student (like in the top 10 in my class with good board scores-like low 90s). I don't think you need those kind of grades to be an oral pathologist though.

I have lots of research experience and some science papers and I was a class officer and a national officer for some organizations. I never saw another person be interviewed while I was there and I am not sure if they had interviewed anyone else when I went. I am not a North Carolina resident or an Iowa resident or a Massachusettes resident. I hope that helps someone who wants to be an oral pathologist. 😀
Click to expand...
Hi jes1ca,
I am planning to apply for university of north carolina pathology program for this summer.on website it was given they give consideration to people who apply by dec 16,do you think they review applications sent after that date.I don't have any research or publications in my profile,but did few externships in few colleges hear.Do they consider such profiles.
 
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