anyone enter the aoa match

[kumar28]

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[charlottecorday]

I did not enter the AOA match because in the western US there basically are no psych residencies. Arrowhead is new, and seems great. I interviewed there and was impressed with the facilities and the interviewers but Colton, CA does not seem like a nice place to live to me. If I already lived in So. Cal I would go for it but to have to move to the smog ridden Inland Empire and live in a dump with meth fiends as neighbors is less than optimal.

Also, you MUST do an Ob/Gyn rotation in the first year which will probably scare off alot of applicants. I mean, not having to do OB/GYN is definitly on my pro list for psychiatry.

 

[futuredo32]

In addition to the month of OB/Gyn, there's also required month of surgery too🙁. Nevertheless, living in Michigan with the requirement of a D.O. intern year, I'll be applying for an AOA psych residency next year. OB/Gyn will hopefully still be a great learning experience if I can learn a lot about post-partum depression during that time. Surgery, well, hopefully it won't be too painful.

 

[kstotes]

Psychiatry is one of those wonderful fields that does not have strong enough residencies in psychiatry to require osteopaths to fulfill their AOA approved internship year. This is called Resolution 42.

By this resolution you can petition for your internship year at an allopathic residency to be counted as an osteopathic internship. It usually requires you to have six months of primary care in your internship year- most programs do four months of primary care with two months of neuro. Usually the only alteration made to enable the petition is to make one of those neuro months a family medicine month and then you pick that neuro month up again in your 3rd year on elective. Since most programs don't have a family month in their system it usually ends up being a month of outpatient FP with no call... oh darn.

Point being, while there are like 5 or so dedicated osteopathic psych residencies and then a few more dually accredited ones, psych is still so non-competitive that it is in the best interest of one's career to go allopathic. You do basically lose all manipulative training, but that sparks the great debate of whether a psychiatrist should even be using manual contact on their patients (my preference is to refer them to an OMT specialist as an adjunct).

I just finished interviewing at programs throughout Pennsylvania and all have had enough osteopaths to know the process of getting their internship approved. I guarantee this is the case in the other states still behind the time (Michigan, West Va, and Florida).

Now if we can just find out how to get around hurdles like $2000 fees to rotate in Colorado and Ivy League schools that don't interview D.O.'s we'll be all set.

 

[futuredo32]

^I read (on SDN) that in Michigan, psychiatry programs wouldn't even grant DOs an interview because of the whole intern year requirement. Maybe that was incorrect? In Michigan,(I don't know about the other states), the MD/DOpsychiatry residency programs are kinda geographically close together. Doesn't the resolution stipulate that you can get around the DO intern year only if you weren't admitted to a DO program in the vicinity?
I'm not opposed to doing a DO psych residency at all, but being able to apply to allopathic programs in the area would give me a greater choice(and a greater chance of matching🙂 )

$2,000 fees, ouch!

 

[kumar28]

so..if I wanted to do a residency in florida...would I have to do an internship first..or does the aoa board give u automatic approval for that..Thanks

 

[marie337]

I'm trying to figure out this whole residency thing right now. I'm very interested in psych, but I don't fully know what my options are since I'm an osteopathic student. There is a program here at MSU, but the thought of doing surgery and OB as a psych intern just makes me nauseous. What's the point of it? Does anyone know if Univ. of Mich, Duke, Univ of Tennessee can get internship waivers? Man, I should have thought about this more before choosing an osteopathic school!

 

[futuredo32]

Doing a psych residency in an area where there isn't a D.O. psych residency program, I would think it wouldn't be too hard to get a waiver from what I read here. https://www.do-online.org/pdf/sir_postdocres19.pdf
I don't know about U-M though.
If you don't want to do a residency in one of the 5 states that require a DO intern year and don't plan to practice in one of the 5 states, it doesn't matter if you get a waiver or not.
(I'm just a student, I'm guessing and trying to figure it all out as much as everyone).
It looks like they approve more applications for waivers than they deny (pretty vague, but all I could find lately on the subject)
http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/full/106/12/708

 

[marie337]

I don't know about U-M though.
If you don't want to do a residency in one of the 5 states that require a DO intern year and don't plan to practice in one of the 5 states, it doesn't matter if you get a waiver or not.

Yeah...I'm not so sure about U of M either. I emailed them, but I doubt they will give me much info. I'm from MI orginally and my family is here so there's a chance that I'll end up practicing here. My husband and I are planning to move to North Carolina or Tennessee, but I should get the internship covered just in case I end up in MI.

I like the MSU program overall and would love to stay here. But, with the internship requirement you don't see any psych until 2nd year. The interns don't even get any clinic time here at MSU.

 

[futuredo32]

I'm not too great with the search function here, but I remember reading threads that said that most of the people that did a residency in a specific field that didn't have any DO residencies in the area and were denied the waiver didn't really follow through with the paperwork and stuff.
Maybe they'll do away with the requirement to do a DO intern year in Michigan before next year(wishful thinking). What's so special about 5 states that they have to do a DO intern year? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[billypilgrim37]

I do know at least one resident at UM who is a DO who did in fact complete a DO intern year before entering the program at UM as a pgy1. I don't know if her decision to repeat the intern year was hers, or a requirement.

 

[heyjack70]

I'm not too great with the search function here, but I remember reading threads that said that most of the people that did a residency in a specific field that didn't have any DO residencies in the area and were denied the waiver didn't really follow through with the paperwork and stuff.
Maybe they'll do away with the requirement to do a DO intern year in Michigan before next year(wishful thinking). What's so special about 5 states that they have to do a DO intern year? It doesn't make sense to me.

I think the requirement is still in place due to original licensing laws for DOs. Most state laws were written loosely enough that it was either not-applicable or not-enforceable. The 5 states' laws were written more specifically requiring a DO internship to be licensed.

If that's way off base, could someone let me know? thanks.

 

[futuredo32]

I think the requirement is still in place due to original licensing laws for DOs. Most state laws were written loosely enough that it was either not-applicable or not-enforceable. The 5 states' laws were written more specifically requiring a DO internship to be licensed.

If that's way off base, could someone let me know? thanks.

As far as I know, the 5 states still require the intern year, but a waiver is sometimes granted to allow a DO to be licensed without doing the DO intern year and it seems (from reading posts here on SDN and on the AOA website) that it's more likely to get the waiver if one is applying for a residency in a geographic area where a DO residency in the same field doesn't exist.
I was just doing some wishful thinking that they'd change the laws in the five states(or at least Michigan😀) .

To those who are applying in the AOA match, good luck tomorrow.🙂

 

[peppy]

Yeah...I'm not so sure about U of M either. I emailed them, but I doubt they will give me much info.

Please post about it if you can find out anything about U of M. 🙂 I'm in the same boat and haven't been able to confirm anything.

 

[VanillaDO]

hi fellow psych peeps!...back to the original question...i decided to forego all the awesome MD psych programs i interviewed at all over the country and ranked the new AOA psych residency in cali --Arrowhead Regional Medical Center (located in southern CA)...yes it does exist!

Unfortunately, ARMC had some complications & didnt' get approval from AOA till January to start interviewing applicants & weren't able to publicize the residency to get enough qualified applicants. So, if anyone's interested there may still be opportunities to scramble & come to sunny CA!

My main reasons for ranking the program:
1) As a proud DO, I think it would be rewarding (but yes, a lil' scary) to pioneer and shape the FIRST EVER DO psych residency in the West coast. THe PD's are expecting to get dual accreditation, so i'm sure competition for spots will increase over the yrs as the program becomes more well-known.
2) You'll work DIRECTLY w/ the Attendings, who are extremely knowledgeable & excited to teach! As TouroKhoi mentioned in another thread, they did their psych training at Harvard, NYU, Bellevue, UCSF, USC, Loma Linda, to name a few and most are highly ranked members of the APA and serve on national committees.
3)Excellent facilities...Arrowhead is a county hospital so you'll see a wide range of pathology during your intern year (which consists of 4 mos of inpatient psych, 2 mos neuro). Loma Linda psych residents rotate through several of the outpatient facilities as well.
4) I'm from the area (San Bernardino Cty), which is underserved in # psychiatrists.

If anyone's interested, contact Pam (administrative assistant) in behavioral health at (909) 580-1000

 

[JMC_MarineCorps]

hi fellow psych peeps!...back to the original question...i decided to forego all the awesome MD psych programs i interviewed at all over the country and ranked the new AOA psych residency in cali --Arrowhead Regional Medical Center (located in southern CA)...yes it does exist!

Unfortunately, ARMC had some complications & didnt' get approval from AOA till January to start interviewing applicants & weren't able to publicize the residency to get enough qualified applicants. So, if anyone's interested there may still be opportunities to scramble & come to sunny CA!

My main reasons for ranking the program:
1) As a proud DO, I think it would be rewarding (but yes, a lil' scary) to pioneer and shape the FIRST EVER DO psych residency in the West coast. THe PD's are expecting to get dual accreditation, so i'm sure competition for spots will increase over the yrs as the program becomes more well-known.
2) You'll work DIRECTLY w/ the Attendings, who are extremely knowledgeable & excited to teach! As TouroKhoi mentioned in another thread, they did their psych training at Harvard, NYU, Bellevue, UCSF, USC, Loma Linda, to name a few and most are highly ranked members of the APA and serve on national committees.
3)Excellent facilities...Arrowhead is a county hospital so you'll see a wide range of pathology during your intern year (which consists of 4 mos of inpatient psych, 2 mos neuro). Loma Linda psych residents rotate through several of the outpatient facilities as well.
4) I'm from the area (San Bernardino Cty), which is underserved in # psychiatrists.

If anyone's interested, contact Pam (administrative assistant) in behavioral health at (909) 580-1000

Congrats Vanilla! I'm assuming you rec'd word today...

You'll be the Chief Resident in your intern year! Woot woot.

 

[futuredo32]

Congratulations, VanillaDO 🙂.

I did some more searching and it sounds pretty easy to get your intern year approved (if you don't live in Mich 🙁. )
You don't have to do surgery or OB.

Like previous training approval policies, the new "Approval of ACGME Training as an AOA-Approved Internship" policy maintains a consistent theme. That is, to be eligible for AOA internship approval of ACGME training the osteopathic physician must complete all six of the traditional rotating internship's core rotations: 2 months internal medicine, 1 month emergency medicine, 1 month family practice, and two additional core rotations (internal medicine, surgery, female reproductive medicine, pediatrics, family practice, or emergency medicine). https://www.do-online.org/index.cfm?PageID=sir_postdocabtres42

Here's tons of threads too about resolution 42
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/gts...Aipqmsamzet8&cof=FORID:9&q=resolution+42#1141

 

[futuredo32]

The MSUCOM Class of 2009 got a mass email today about how the match went, etc and so on. I thought this part was interesting, though not specific to psychiatry, about getting around the DO intern rule. (It sounds kinda hopeful 🙂 )

Dr. Cummings has indicated that he has worked with 5 – 6 members of the class who will likely apply for and receive AOA credit for ACGME training under hardship or other variant rules.
The most significant change compared to recent years is the number of non-participants, 33 members of the class, and unmatched students, 10. These numbers are at least 3 to 4 times higher than we have noted in the recent past. Preliminary conversation with Dr. Cummings suggests that these changes are probably associated with the relaxed interpretation of Proposition 42 making it easier to gain AOA approval for post graduate year 1 training and the relaxation of rules governing educational licensure in Michigan.

Editing to add:
I found this on the osteo board. Here's hoping the other 4 states are right behind WV.

From the AOA daily report:

"Advocacy for Osteopathic Licensure

President Ajluni wrote to the West Virginia State Legislature on 2/19/08 regarding SB 554, which relates to osteopathic physician and surgeon licensing requirements. President Ajluni expressed the AOA's strong opposition to the bill, which would eliminate the state's requirement that DO graduates complete an osteopathic first-year of postdoctoral training. In addition, the language of the bill itself as submitted contains several inaccuracies, incorrectly listing what entities can approve postgraduate training programs and who administers the osteopathic licensing examination."

Read the full letter for yourself:

http://blogs.do-online.org/media/2/2...8_WVLetter.pdf

Looks like the WV legislature wants to eliminate one of the five states who require that year of osteopathic internship, but the AOA doesn't like it at all.

 

[beezley]

I have a friend of a friend who went to MSUCOM and then did NOT do an AOA internship, did psych residency in another state and is now practicing in MI. Not sure how he got around it, I think it involved money but I think at the point of the end of residency/beginning of practice the money was less of an issue than end of school/beginning of residency.

Also have a DO friend who did here AOA intern year and then 3 years of anesthesia at a non-DO major academic center. But she says now she couldn't have done that since said major center's residency now has a tracked intern year that is of course non-DO.

What a pain. All this stuff is unfortunately the major reason why I went the MD route. That and the fact that all the DO residencies are in armpit/detroit. Sorry, my downstater cousins tell me "Don't knock big D(etroit) but I can't help it.

Happily in the north.