anyone heard of this?

[oreosandsake]

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Members don't see this ad.

http://www.ndanerve.com/

I was studying at a starbucks today and a sales rep for this company was determined on educating me about his product.

he states that it "will be replacing EMG's in the future." 😕

I don't know if that will happen, but was wondering if this is really being used by physicians.

 

[lobelsteve]

As useful as Acuspina and Vax-D.

There's a sucker born every minute.

Notice there is no name on the website, just a company with info.
If there was even an air of legitimacy, the owner of the company would be proud to share who he is and how he came to develop or manage such a wonderful product. It's a scam.

 

[bry22]

I have seen and spoken with the reps for neural scan at multiple meetings (Pain, PMR). After every discussion and question, they just tell me to refer back to Guyton's Physiology but they never give an answer themselves. I don't need someone to tell me to re-read the same pathophysiology of pain and neuroanatomy that I've studied for the past 8 years. I just want answers regarding their product but they won't (or can't) give any specifics. I know this does not necessarily mean it must be a scam. But I believe (like Dr. Lobel above has stated) that you can tell it's a scam by the demeanor of the reps and the lack of substantive information given (on the website and by the reps). It just seems too shady and sketchy. If it were legitimate, they would be marketing the crap out of this thing with extensive detailed information.

Brian Trussell MD
UofLouisville PMR (2005-2008)
MCV Interventional Spine (2008-2009)

 

[drusso]

It's pure bunk and their sales people are annoying.

 

[ShrikeMD]

http://www.ndanerve.com/

I was studying at a starbucks today and a sales rep for this company was determined on educating me about his product.

he states that it "will be replacing EMG's in the future." 😕

I don't know if that will happen, but was wondering if this is really being used by physicians.

The only thing that will be replacing an EMG machine for the forseeable future is a better EMG machine.

 

[Nico47]

"Yes, I love technology (but not as much as you, you see)."

I agree that all that stuff looks like bunk, but I strongly believe that the EMG as we know it will be replaced with something eventually.

When you step back, you can see how jabbing a needle into the body isn't the most friendly test to patients. Someone will come up with a way to get the same results in a less invasive way.

My hope is that it will come from someone in the field, and when this technology does arrive we as physiatrists will embrace it and own it.

I can see it now: "Oh, PM&R? Yeah, that's the specialty with all those tech savvy, really good looking people." (I had to throw that last part in there).

 

[ShrikeMD]

"Yes, I love technology (but not as much as you, you see)."

I agree that all that stuff looks like bunk, but I strongly believe that the EMG as we know it will be replaced with something eventually.

When you step back, you can see how jabbing a needle into the body isn't the most friendly test to patients. Someone will come up with a way to get the same results in a less invasive way.

My hope is that it will come from someone in the field, and when this technology does arrive we as physiatrists will embrace it and own it.

I can see it now: "Oh, PM&R? Yeah, that's the specialty with all those tech savvy, really good looking people." (I had to throw that last part in there).

Yes, eventually something will replace it.

I can see it now: Dr. McCoy will hold this cool little device, about the size of a ping-pong ball, and as it whines he tells Captain Kirk: "Jim, you have carpal tunnel syndrome. Take a couple of these pills and your hands will feel good as new."

Only problem with that future is that I never saw Dr. McCoy dictating a procedure in the entire series of shows, not even once. The captain dictates a "Captain's Log", but what about medical records? How is he supposed to be reimbursed? THAT is how I knew that Star Trek wasn't real.

 

[Jumpu]

Yes, eventually something will replace it.

Only problem with that future is that I never saw Dr. McCoy dictating a procedure in the entire series of shows, not even once. The captain dictates a "Captain's Log", but what about medical records? How is he supposed to be reimbursed? THAT is how I knew that Star Trek wasn't real.

Well that sort of was the premise of the star trek universe, that money did not exist anymore? So reimbursement is never an issue, it's "universal" healthcare!😀

 

[oreosandsake]

http://www.ndanerve.com/downloads/NeuralScan_Study_PredictingNerveRootPathology.pdf

the reason why I was asking if physicians are really using this thing.

since it seems that there are very reputable docs out there endorsing it (maybe they have financial gain...)

interestingly, when I pubmed searched R Cork none of his published articles were regarding this machine.

maybe the physiatrists from LSU have input.

 

[ampaphb]

http://www.ndanerve.com/downloads/NeuralScan_Study_PredictingNerveRootPathology.pdf

the reason why I was asking if physicians are really using this thing.

since it seems that there are very reputable docs out there endorsing it (maybe they have financial gain...)

interestingly, when I pubmed searched R Cork none of his published articles were regarding this machine.

maybe the physiatrists from LSU have input.

LSU Shreveport is a different institution from LSU New Orleans, where the PM&R program is located. It is 350 miles northwest of New Orleans, and is physically much closer to Dallas (175 mi)

Jacques, if you read this, maybe you could run it past Norbert, and fill us in on his opinion of Dr. Cork.

 

[lobelsteve]

The Internet Journal of Anesthesiology 2002.

Dept of Anesthesiology

Reputable Journal?
Within the scope of Anesthesia?

Cork is not listed on the LSU Shreveport Anes page.
http://www.anesthesia.lsuhsc.edu/Faculty.html

The big question is to see if you can tie the money fom the manufacturer/distributor to the authors.

 

[Ludicolo]

Yeah, the "Internet Journal of (insert medical specialty here)" is usually not listed in PubMed.

I recommend checking out the "American Association of Sensory Medicine", of which Dr. Cork is listed as the president. His CV is posted there for your perusal. He seems to be quite...prolific.

Caveat emptor.

 

[drrinoo]

Dr. Cork is a good man with a good heart. He was a consummate researcher in anesthesiology and pain. I met him a few years ago
He was a former chairman at LSU Shreveport in the Dept of Anesthesiology and correspondingly, the head of the pain fellowship.

He had an interest in figuring out a way to correlate pain with C-fiber dysfunction. This was a popular area of interest in mid to late 1990s.
Arguably, as a pain specialist, back then you were presented with patients with complex pain problems wherein imaging and emgs were normal. At that time, we had nominal understanding of rsd and other neuropathic pain syndromes. In fact, an editorial was published in NEJM in the late 1990s stating that RSD was exclusively as psychological problem.
Hence there was 'diagnostic' void and efforts were underway to find a tool that could validate these 'psychological' problems.

Neural scanning was developed to study C-fiber involvement

Unfortunately, it never took off...this also happened to thermography....

Now we have fMRI and a basic science understanding of most pain conditions.

Hats off to Dr. Cork for being an innovator.

IF any of you bump into him at a meeting, please say hello to him on my behalf.

 

[briandavis]

We currently are researching the utility of the Neural Scan. I have met the reps and several physicians involved in using the device.

The first question that we are trying to answer is whether or not the results can be standardized in any way. IF this can be done, then we need to compare the Neural Scan of individuals with documented injury to the gold standards available. Only if a correlation can be determined can the device be considered to be valid.

This looks like it may be a tall order. I'll keep any judgement open until we finish our study.

Brian A. Davis, MD, FABPMR
Assoc. Prof., Dept. of PM&R
Assoc. Prof., Dept. of Anesthesiology & Pain Mgmt.
UC Davis, Sacramento, CA

 

[ampaphb]

We currently are researching the utility of the Neural Scan. I have met the reps and several physicians involved in using the device.

The first question that we are trying to answer is whether or not the results can be standardized in any way. IF this can be done, then we need to compare the Neural Scan of individuals with documented injury to the gold standards available. Only if a correlation can be determined can the device be considered to be valid.

This looks like it may be a tall order. I'll keep any judgement open until we finish our study.

Brian A. Davis, MD, FABPMR
Assoc. Prof., Dept. of PM&R
Assoc. Prof., Dept. of Anesthesiology & Pain Mgmt.
UC Davis, Sacramento, CA

Dr. Davis, first let me say thank you for your participation on this forum.

I am curious - when you and your residents &/or fellows review journal articles, and see that the device under review is a product of the same manufacturer which sponsored the study, do you discount the findings, particularly if the article finds that the device is efficacious?

 

[briandavis]

I am always concerned about an article being 'published' by the company promoting the product. It is very well known in the medical industry that negative studies about their own products rarely see the light of day. With new drugs and devices, the FDA does not get access to all studies and therefore some positive studies that are published come after several failures.

With the Neural Scan, it did not have to meet any criteria to be permitted use, only to show that no one will be harmed by its use. We are trying to conduct our study without any influence from the company.

Brian A. Davis, MD, FABPMR
Assoc. Prof., Dept. of PM&R
Assoc. Prof., Dept. of Anesthesiology & Pain Mgmt.
UC Davis, Sacramento, CA

 

[Ludicolo]

Side rant

Had a patient call me yesterday. Wondering if I could do an EMG on her for a "pinched nerve". She is asymptomatic. She had a Neural Scan performed on her by her internist. As part of her yearly physical. As a screening exam. She faxed over the Neural Scan report (which, if you've never seen one, is quite confusing). Looks like her internist tested every nerve (cervical, thoracic, lumbosacral dermatomes) and told her the test showed she had a "pinched nerve". Didn't tell her where. Even the patient was wondering if all that was really necessary.

Whether or not Dr. Davis' study pans out - and I would like to think that the Neural Scan designers didn't intend for the machine to be used in this manner - what irks me is when this kind of thing falls into the wrong hands. Gizmo idolatry. http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/299/15/1830

Rant over

 

[ShrikeMD]

Side rant

Had a patient call me yesterday. Wondering if I could do an EMG on her for a "pinched nerve". She is asymptomatic. She had a Neural Scan performed on her by her internist. As part of her yearly physical. As a screening exam. She faxed over the Neural Scan report (which, if you've never seen one, is quite confusing). Looks like her internist tested every nerve (cervical, thoracic, lumbosacral dermatomes) and told her the test showed she had a "pinched nerve". Didn't tell her where. Even the patient was wondering if all that was really necessary.

Whether or not Dr. Davis' study pans out - and I would like to think that the Neural Scan designers didn't intend for the machine to be used in this manner - what irks me is when this kind of thing falls into the wrong hands. Gizmo idolatry. http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/299/15/1830

Rant over

Thanks for the ref on "Gizmo idolatry." Thought-provoking little article.