Anyone live in NYC doing premed courses?

[loren646]

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Where are you guys taking it? recommend?

Were you instate or out of state?

 

[EyEnStein 07]

Im an undergrad student at an nyc college. If money is an issue, if you have good work ethic, and are "smart" meaning you can keep up with science courses with not top notch professors, then look into CUNY schools.

The CUNY (city univerities of new york) offer low tuition and various courses that you may be interested in to raise your GPA or do pre-reqs. Of all CUNYs, probably the best ones to take these courses are:

Hunter College
City College
Brooklyn College
Queens College


If you want to go to more prestigious places...probably the top 3 in NYC are
Columbia, NYU, Fordham

 

[student1799]

I more or less agree with the previous post. Strongly agree that CUNY is worth looking into, especially Hunter (which has by far the best reputation of the CUNY postbacc programs). Hunter's rep is so good that it's seen as a close rival to Columbia, and at a fraction of the cost.

I went to Columbia myself, and I frankly don't think I'd do it over in hindsight. It cost a fortune ($1200 per credit, or $58,000 for a standard 48-credit postbacc), and I'm not sure anything could ever live up to that price tag. And based on what I've learned about Hunter, the two programs are probably virtually identical in quality and results. Columbia likes to boast that its postbacc students have a 90%+ success rate in getting into med school, but that doesn't take into account the fact that a substantial number of students (I'd estimate 30-50%) drop out of the program before reaching the point of applying. So if you compute their success rate using all students who started the program on day 1, as the FDA does for drug trials, their "true" success rate would be only 45-60%. As far as I know, other postbacc programs compute their success rates the same way Columbia does, but I'd be surprised if they all had such high attrition rates.

I do differ slightly with the idea expressed by the previous poster that any NYC schools other than Hunter or Columbia have much of a reputation for postbacc. I'd say that none of them do, whether public or private. That's not to say that you won't get into med school if you take your prereqs at one of the other schools, but if you're interested in well-known programs, I'd stick to these two.

 

[EyEnStein 07]

I more or less agree with the previous post. Strongly agree that CUNY is worth looking into, especially Hunter (which has by far the best reputation of the CUNY postbacc programs). Hunter's rep is so good that it's seen as a close rival to Columbia, and at a fraction of the cost.

I went to Columbia myself, and I frankly don't think I'd do it over in hindsight. It cost a fortune ($1200 per credit, or $58,000 for a standard 48-credit postbacc), and I'm not sure anything could ever live up to that price tag. And based on what I've learned about Hunter, the two programs are probably virtually identical in quality and results. Columbia likes to boast that its postbacc students have a 90%+ success rate in getting into med school, but that doesn't take into account the fact that a substantial number of students (I'd estimate 30-50%) drop out of the program before reaching the point of applying. So if you compute their success rate using all students who started the program on day 1, as the FDA does for drug trials, their "true" success rate would be only 45-60%. As far as I know, other postbacc programs compute their success rates the same way Columbia does, but I'd be surprised if they all had such high attrition rates.

I do differ slightly with the idea expressed by the previous poster that any NYC schools other than Hunter or Columbia have much of a reputation for postbacc. I'd say that none of them do, whether public or private. That's not to say that you won't get into med school if you take your prereqs at one of the other schools, but if you're interested in well-known programs, I'd stick to these two.

There isnt a "post-bacc" program per say at Hunter, its just a pathway. People that i took courses with (im an undergrad) were ALL NON MATRICULATED students. Meaning they had last dibbs on the "good" professors, and last dibbs on registration.

Like i said, if you have strong worth ethic and can teach a lot of the material to yourself, then you will be fine anywhere. Dont except Hunter to be better in terms of education, or easier because its not a "prestigious" institution. The education quality is fair, im personally not inlove with it, but its good enough for you to take your courses and move on to med school.

I cannot speak for Columbia, however i would imagine that columbia would work you harder than Hunter, and that most of the teachers in columbia are PhD holders. You will sadly find, that a lot of teachers (in some subjects, besides bio and orgo they each have 1 distinct professor) are masters / phd candidates. Either way, if your looking for a good pricetag, and decent quality , you can go to a CUNY school.

Im very familiar with CUNY and im not sure whats good about Hunter...in fact a lot of undergrads are unhappy there. You should definately check out Hunter, but also check out some of the others if you have time. Either way they all will give you the required courses you need to move on.

Hunter's rep is so good that it's seen as a close rival to Columbia, and at a fraction of the cost.

Just curious, where do you get this from? Close rival in a post-bacc sense?

 

[student1799]

There isnt a "post-bacc" program per say at Hunter, its just a pathway.

I'm sorry, but I think you don't have the whole picture. Yes, you can take premed courses at Hunter as a non-matric student, but they also have a formal postbacc program which has existed for a long time. Here is a link to its information page:

http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/studentservices/prehealth/postba

In addition, the Hunter postbacc students have their own discussion group on Yahoo. Here is its home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PreHealthPostBacc/?yguid=160606853 This is a members-only group, but any prospective student is allowed to join if they email the moderator. I still belong to it myself, having joined while checking out postbacc programs.

People that i took courses with (im an undergrad) were ALL NON MATRICULATED students. Meaning they had last dibbs on the "good" professors, and last dibbs on registration.

I have heard the same thing about the experiences of non-matric students, but the postbaccs have higher registration priority so that they can get through the prereqs in the standard 2 years. In fact, a nontrad posted here that he had called Hunter to inquire about premed classes as a non-matric, and they advised him that he'd have a very hard time registering for those classes unless he was in the postbacc program.

Quote: Originally Posted by student1799:
Hunter's rep is so good that it's seen as a close rival to Columbia, and at a fraction of the cost.

Just curious, where do you get this from? Close rival in a post-bacc sense?

From residents and attendings at the hospital where I volunteered. From people I personally know who graduated from the program and got into med school.

Im very familiar with CUNY and im not sure whats good about Hunter...in fact a lot of undergrads are unhappy there.

My mother and sister both got their undergrad degrees from Hunter in the not-too-distant past (both were nontrad students), so I'm pretty familiar with Hunter as well. The fact is, there are unhappy students everywhere--including Columbia, where there were quite a few. Every school has its hassles and limitations; Hunter is overcrowded and the facilities are fairly run-down, but (according to my mom and sis) there are many wonderful profs there who genuinely care about the students. And if you take a look at the postbacc forum on Yahoo, the postbacc students seem to have a nice, supportive community spirit.

Columbia costs many, many times what Hunter does (the 2-year postbacc program cost me $58,000, and there's no almost no financial aid), so you'd expect it to be outright luxurious. But guess what? Many of the problems are EXACTLY the same: rundown facilities (almost nonexistent heat and cooling in many lecture halls, broken seats that go years without being fixed), outdated equipment (some of our physics labs used equipment that was 50 YEARS OLD and barely functional), and even difficulty getting required classes. (I was never totally closed out of a class I needed, but I know others who were. I had no idea this could happen when we were paying $1200 per credit.) And, contrary to what you might assume, the fact that the faculty holds PhD's doesn't necessarily make them good at teaching OR interested in their students--in fact, some were the exact opposite.

Trust me, more expensive doesn't always mean better.

 

[EyEnStein 07]

I have heard the same thing about the experiences of non-matric students, but the postbaccs have higher registration priority so that they can get through the prereqs in the standard 2 years. In fact, a nontrad posted here that he had called Hunter to inquire about premed classes as a non-matric, and they advised him that he'd have a very hard time registering for those classes unless he was in the postbacc program.

They might have higher priority registration but i doubt its before undegrads, so still....they will get classes toward the end.

Also i recently found out that they are changing and offering a certificate, i guess that's a bonus now.

From residents and attendings at the hospital where I volunteered. From people I personally know who graduated from the program and got into med school.

Oh ok, i thought you meant statistically.

My mother and sister both got their undergrad degrees from Hunter in the not-too-distant past (both were nontrad students), so I'm pretty familiar with Hunter as well. The fact is, there are unhappy students everywhere--including Columbia, where there were quite a few. Every school has its hassles and limitations; Hunter is overcrowded and the facilities are fairly run-down, but (according to my mom and sis) there are many wonderful profs there who genuinely care about the students. And if you take a look at the postbacc forum on Yahoo, the postbacc students seem to have a nice, supportive community spirit.

The facilities part is true. It is overcrowded, and the teachers try there best no doubt. I just feel that there should be more classes offered due to the amount of students. Its pretty annoying when one (some of my friends) cant register for a class period due to space issues...

Hunter is also a little "mean" when it comes to transfering over sciences classes that people took. For example i spoke to someone (postbacc maybe he was a post bac non matric) last week who needs to retake bio because Hunter wants all students to take there own bio. Now im sure this is for a bio major they would need to...but to not give the credit to a post bacc is kind of "mean"

Columbia costs many, many times what Hunter does (the 2-year postbacc program cost me $58,000, and there's no almost no financial aid), so you'd expect it to be outright luxurious. But guess what? Many of the problems are EXACTLY the same: rundown facilities (almost nonexistent heat and cooling in many lecture halls, broken seats that go years without being fixed), outdated equipment (some of our physics labs used equipment that was 50 YEARS OLD and barely functional), and even difficulty getting required classes. (I was never totally closed out of a class I needed, but I know others who were. I had no idea this could happen when we were paying $1200 per credit.) And, contrary to what you might assume, the fact that the faculty holds PhD's doesn't necessarily make them good at teaching OR interested in their students--in fact, some were the exact opposite. Trust me, more expensive doesn't always mean better.

This is completely conceivable however does columbia offer more advantages than Hunter in any way that you may think? (again im an undegrad, i have no intention of going to columbia, im just asking for general knowledge since you attended). Also does columbia have a sufficient amount of classes for post bacc? This means, the day registration opened, did your friends try register for the classes and couldnt because they were full? Or did they wait a few days before registering? When i talk about registration at Hunter, im talking about the day. It gets frustrating only because everyone has different registration times.

It is probably possible that they dont allow the post baccs to use the "nicer" labs, i mean im sure they have much better updated ones.

in regards to the PhD things, ofcourse there are cases where what you say can happen, but from my experience, its best when someone has finished the boundaries of the subject as opposed to those who are still schooling. This is also because many of the ones that hold MS or MA"s have school them selves and dont always look out for there students in class.

Also, i never assumed that the more expensive the school the better it is (by no means actually, i can spit out 10 private schools in NYC right now that are sub par to cuny). As i put in my first post, i told OP to look into CUNY's. I actually just find it sad that those types of conditions exist when you basically have to pay full tuition.

Also if you dont know, NYC only has 4-5 post bacc programs, all of which are non degree with the exception of 1, and now Hunter is added as they will provide a certificate.

 

[NJ BK]

I'm taking pre-reqs at a community college, part of the CUNY system. Although I want to get into allied health and the consensus here seems to be against community college for medical school

 

[student1799]

This is completely conceivable however does columbia offer more advantages than Hunter in any way that you may think?

People always say that Columbia has "prestige," but there's no way to tell just how much this is worth in the med school admissions process. My experience suggests that it might be worth a little, but not a whole lot--your GPA and MCAT score seem to be much more important than the school you attended.

Also does columbia have a sufficient amount of classes for post bacc? This means, the day registration opened, did your friends try register for the classes and couldnt because they were full?

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Columbia uses computerized registration, and students are assigned "registration appointments," or time windows when they can log onto the registration computer and pick classes. I'm sure they use priorities in assigning these appointments, but I don't know exactly what they are. (I have been told, though, that postbaccs have relatively high priority.) Even so, there have been some problems with postbaccs getting classes, especially labs. I knew several people who had to take orgo lab over the summer because they were closed out in the spring, despite registering at the first possible time. I myself got stuck with a horrible time slot for that same lab because that was all I could get, despite logging on the first possible minute.

It is probably possible that they dont allow the post baccs to use the "nicer" labs, i mean im sure they have much better updated ones.

No, this is not the case. There are no special postbacc classes at Columbia--the students take the regular undergrad classes. So I suffered through chem lab and physics lab with freshmen and sophomores at my side.

Also if you dont know, NYC only has 4-5 post bacc programs, all of which are non degree with the exception of 1, and now Hunter is added as they will provide a certificate.

Sorry to be so blunt, but the certificate ain't worth **** if you don't get into med school. Columbia gives a certificate, and most of the students don't even bother to request one.

 

[EyEnStein 07]

People always say that Columbia has "prestige," but there's no way to tell just how much this is worth in the med school admissions process. My experience suggests that it might be worth a little, but not a whole lot--your GPA and MCAT score seem to be much more important than the school you attended.

I think its only worth something if you do well, because it shows that you are capable of doing well at an institution that is "highly ranked."
Obviously, if you dont do well, it doesnt say much, just as someone who doesnt do well anywhere else. GPA and MCAT are always more important.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Columbia uses computerized registration, and students are assigned "registration appointments," or time windows when they can log onto the registration computer and pick classes. I'm sure they use priorities in assigning these appointments, but I don't know exactly what they are. (I have been told, though, that postbaccs have relatively high priority.) Even so, there have been some problems with postbaccs getting classes, especially labs. I knew several people who had to take orgo lab over the summer because they were closed out in the spring, despite registering at the first possible time. I myself got stuck with a horrible time slot for that same lab because that was all I could get, despite logging on the first possible minute.

Hunter does the same, and its not great.

No, this is not the case. There are no special postbacc classes at Columbia--the students take the regular undergrad classes. So I suffered through chem lab and physics lab with freshmen and sophomores at my side.

I find this very awkward, as most private/ivy leagues are given lots of funds and have huge endowments to improve conditions of there equipment.

Sorry to be so blunt, but the certificate ain't worth **** if you don't get into med school. Columbia gives a certificate, and most of the students don't even bother to request one.

It doesnt mean anything, my mistake if i made it seem like it does. IM just saying that Hunter is going to start offering one, which probably is another way to prove to a school that you finished a "program." However there are other certificates that ARE worth something. For example a masters completion that is offered through other Post bacc programs or SMP's.

According to AAMC, columbia does not offer anything, its non-degree. Unless its just a regular certificate saying you passed. Thats probably required for all "post bacc" programs.

 

[EyEnStein 07]

I'm taking pre-reqs at a community college, part of the CUNY system. Although I want to get into allied health and the consensus here seems to be against community college for medical school

That is what most people say. For some reason Medical Schools look down on community college preparation... But why take the risk? Im assuming your either at qcc, bmcc, or kingsborough. Just transfer to one of the 4 years, there is a 4 year near any of the CUNY CC's. CCNY and Hunter both have post bacc programs that you might be interested in. The tuition is very similar as well.

 

[NJ BK]

That is what most people say. For some reason Medical Schools look down on community college preparation... But why take the risk? Im assuming your either at qcc, bmcc, or kingsborough. Just transfer to one of the 4 years, there is a 4 year near any of the CUNY CC's. CCNY and Hunter both have post bacc programs that you might be interested in. The tuition is very similar as well.

Yup, @ BMCC. But I think for Allied Health it may not make that much a difference where pre-reqs are taken. I've spoken to 2 students at 2 different programs I'm interested in and they both said they didn't think it matters. Also it's more economical for me. But if I was shooting for med school I would probably try one of the established post-bacc programs.