Applications with special testing conditions

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bigbuddieMD

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Question. I have a friend who just took the mcat...and got a 40 on it. Wow...you say...however here is the catch. He got double the time on each section + two days to take it in a private room with no distractions...and all it said on his application was "speical testing conditions" in small font where most people probably wouldn't notice it. He got this because he has ADHD...which never seemed to slow him down in the past till he had to take the mcat. He has already gotten into two med schools this year and havn't gotten into any...and I have much higher grades than him. Does that really work...or do med schools just not care? Anyone else have any stories like this...just curious.
 
double the time on each section? wow! i think that is really unfair. i understand that some people need special accomodation, but an extra 10 or 15 minutes on each section seems more reasonable. if someone truly needs THAT much extra time, how will they be able to make it through med school? the mcat people really should review their policy on this in my opinion.
 
my bad...it was time and a half on each section. so like 150 minutes on physical sciences.
 
I would assume, though I have no evidence of this, that the MCAT grade report each school will receive will make a more prominent mention of the special testing conditions than the application that only the applicant sees.

Also, though med schools, like any governmentally funded institution, cannot discriminate based on disability, I would imagine this would be a topic that shows up in his interviews often.

The MCAT is only hard because of the timing, once you get rid of that, the MCAT is a relatively mundane test.
 
Hmm...This might be worth a trip to the neuro:laugh:
 
Given more time would be NICE, but honestly to land a 40 even with time and a half and an extra day is TOUGH, i rememeber doing sectoins, no timing with like my books out, and its not like i was pulling 15s each time. I think 40 is solid regardless
 
I have a friend with ADHD who gets an extra 10 minutes per hour on tests and takes them in a quiet room--and he's got a pretty severe case. Having it spread over 2 days is really unfair to everyone else.

Then again, I knew someone in college who had a very, very mild case of it and took extra Ritalin for every exam ... I'm sure there were perfectly healthy people who took black-market Ritalin for the MCAT ...
 
whatever, I think the mcat is an easy test given no time constraints. I remember giving myself an extra 10 minutes and getting around a 14-15 on each section of some really hard practice tests when in reality i was getting around 10s for the real deal. I think for most people the time is a huge factor. Also, I am pretty sure that they never mentioned this issue to him in interviews...and also did not get anything other than "special testing conditions" written on the amcas...because the mcat service told him that if med schools asked he needed to be honest and report why he had that.
 
Originally posted by Gleevec
Also, though med schools, like any governmentally funded institution, cannot discriminate based on disability, I would imagine this would be a topic that shows up in his interviews often.

That's not totally true. Every school has minimum technical standards which a student must satisfy before matriculating. People who lack the ability to use their senses and communicate with a patient in a manner that the school deems acceptable are not allowed in med school.
 
Wow. That is kind of shocking.
What about when this person has a patient bleeding to death on the table in front of him/her? He/she won't get extra time and special quiet conditions in order to make decisions to save the patient's life.
 
while the 40 is nice, dont forget though that there'll be clear signs of his disability throughout the rest of his app. the OP's allusion to the 40s low grades are a very strong indication of this. plus his LORs would probably make some reference to this.
 
actually, his grades were low...3.1 but not that low. Also, he never got asked about it...and really as far as I can tell has no visible symptoms of ADHD. In fact after getting that mcat score...he went off all his meds and is doing fine in school...top of his class this semmester in fact...doesn't seem to be sweating it a bit. He said basically that he didn't need the meds anymore.
 
Where I went to high school, some parents pushed their children to get tested for LD's, kids who had done fine in school up to that point, so that they would get extra time for the SAT and be competitive for the Ivys. There are even some psychiatrists who are known to sign off on the paperwork "without much testing/hassle." Yes this is unfair, but some people will do anything to get ahead. However, It doesn't bother me that people with legit problems get a little extra time- but then again, time and a half seems like a lot.
 
Originally posted by bigbuddieMD
actually, his grades were low...3.1 but not that low. Also, he never got asked about it...and really as far as I can tell has no visible symptoms of ADHD. In fact after getting that mcat score...he went off all his meds and is doing fine in school...top of his class this semmester in fact...doesn't seem to be sweating it a bit. He said basically that he didn't need the meds anymore.

No visible symptoms of ADHD? What kinda symptoms were you expecting!

Give the guy a break. Your main issue is that he's getting acceptances and you are not. Guess what? It happens! Med schools are MUCH more likely to give an interview/acceptance to a guy who got a 3.1 gpa and a 40 mcat, then a guy with a 27 mcat and 3.9 gpa. You know why? It's called GRADE INFLATION.

If you want to know why you aren't getting accepted, maybe you should look at your OWN application. What are YOUR numbers? What are YOUR extra curricular activities? Quit blaming the poor guy for YOUR lack of acceptances.

If you got interviews you had an equal chance as him to get accepted. Frankly, maybe you blew them by coming across to the interviewer as a pretentious pr*ck.
 
While I am sure there are people who abuse the system, and perhaps do not need the extra time, I for one would rather those people slip through the cracks than have people who legitimately need the time be denied extra time.

It is really not that easy to get extra time on the MCAT, they are very strict about it. I have a friend who has had extra time on tests since 3rd grade for mild dyslexia and she couldn't get extra time. Another friend who did get extra time has not been asked about it at all - and for those who ask what these people would do in an emergency - not everyone has to go into emergency medicine or trauma, and as a 3rd year student doing rotations, I doubt they will have to carry that much responsibility in those kind of situations.

Although this system of getting into schools is unfair in many ways, it is best to not worry about everyone else and just concentrate on doing your best -
the system won't change just b/c we all might be pissed off about it.
 
If one imagines the mission of the U.S. medical schools to produce the best possible class of doctors year after year, it's tough to imagine giving "differently abled" applicants a wide range of leeway. Obviously, MCAT scores are just one aspect of the application - but still a valid measure of some intellectual ability - why not make it a level playing field and then allow a space for applicants to document any disabilities, and then let the medical school make the decision themselves on how that applicant fares in comparison to their applicant pool. Every medical school has a list of technical standards, and dyslexia might be included as a deficiency included in: "a capacity to observe and communicate; sufficient motor ability to perform physical examinations and basic laboratory, diagnostic, and therapeutic procedures; emotional stability to exercise good judgment and work effectively in stressful situations; and the intellectual ability to synthesize data and solve problems."(GWU)

It's only possible to carry the accomodations for disablity so far - it's unfortunate, but we all have our limitations and perhaps we should come to terms with them rather than litigate or demand exception to the detriment of the greater whole.
 
Well, it's difficult to judge the situation from the limited information provided. But I would say categorically that, while a quiet room for a person with ADHD is reasonable, extra time is not.

I'm not sure there's ANY situation where extra testing time on the MCAT is justified. The time limitation is a component of the test that yields useful information to admissions committees regarding an applicant's ability to integrate information and use it to solve problems quickly and accurately. If this is an essential skill of a physician (which I believe it is, for ANY specialty), then extra time on the MCAT removes an essential construct being tested. Changing the test in a manner that alters what is being tested is not considered a reasonable accommodation.


However, I don't think that someone with a disability should be required to document it for the benefit of admissions committees, in order for them to judge whether the applicant is suited to practice medicine. The person with the disability (other than cognitive, of course) is a better judge of his or her physical capacity than anyone else. Other people often have a stereotyped view of a particular disability and the physical limitation it entails, and this may or may not apply to the applicant in question. I would hate to see someone who'd make an excellent physician, not to mention an excellent role model for others with a disability, denied admission because of anyone's preconceived notion of their limitations.

So I agree with the current practice of identifying the essential physical and mental skills required of a physician, and asking applicants to state that they have these capabilities. I would not be averse to requiring formal evaluation of this, once the applicant has been accepted. The acceptance could be contingent on passing the evaluation, as long as EVERY student, and not just those who've identified themselves as having a disability, is required to undergo such an evaluation.
 
It's still unfair. To be legit, a standardized test needs to be just that: standardized. If one person has extra time, then their score is not reflective of their knowledge in the same way it is for someone using the regular amount of time.

-Naphtali
 
If this guy got a 40 with time and a half I am sure he/she could have gotten a 30-32 with regular time. I mean for heaven's sakes if we are assuming things are linear, which they are not, (1.5 time means 1.5 times the points) then they would have gotten a 26 or 27. That is the average at some schools. However it is my guess that those hardest questions are very difficult to get right (the ones that make you get a 40) and take a whole lot of time therefore the person is at least an average standardized test taker. I would say this person will be fine. On the negative side the special conditions would crush my confidence. Just think in the dark hour when you are under stress, you will think to yourself "I couldn't get here the normal way, do I belong here". I just couldn't stand that nagging doubt.
 
Originally posted by heelpain
This is what I learned from working with Learning disabled students at a university center for disabled students.

1) It should not even be considered "extra time." It is the time NEEDED TO COMPLETE AN EXAM. Your one hour exam is equal to their two hour exam. Because they are disabled, they often do not have time to go over their exam and correct mistakes.

well then they won't complete the exam. Too bad. There are tons of students who do not complete the exam b/c of time constraints. Of course it's extra time. Standardized tests are a measure of how well you can do on a particular exam under particular conditions. Anyone who is not under the exact same conditions as everyone else is not taking the same standardized exam and it is completely unfair to compare this person with the rest of the applicant pool. Hardly anyone has time to go over their exam and correct their mistakes on the MCAT...cry me a river.
 
The bigger issue for me is that the guy went off his meds right after the MCAT b/c he didn't need them anymore. Doesn't sound like his disability is all that severe ... like my friend who jacked up his dose of Ritalin for the SAT ...
 
Originally posted by VienneseWaltz
The bigger issue for me is that the guy went off his meds right after the MCAT b/c he didn't need them anymore. Doesn't sound like his disability is all that severe ... like my friend who jacked up his dose of Ritalin for the SAT ...

Well have you considered that maybe he doesn't like taking medications? Perhaps he thought that the MCAT was a big enough deal to warrant his taking Ritalin (even if he detests meds), however once he finished he could no longer justify it?

Have you considered that maybe the SAT forced your friend to undergo long periods of intense concentration that he was unaccustomed to...and perhaps his meds wore off?
 
What do you think is the actual percentage of students allowed extra time? Maybe 0.1 % of all test takers. Give me a break. I don't think AAMC is handing out extra time like porn peddlers handing out pamphlets in Vegas. If you think its unfair, try imagining how your life would have turned out if YOU had ADHD.

Next topic, eliminating 4.0 students who didn't have to work to support themselves as an undergrad...They had an unfair advantage.
 
UCLA2000--

My friend was pretty open about the fact that he didn't really need to be on Ritalin at all anymore, he just wanted the brain boost for the SAT.

From bigbuddieMD's posts, I got the impression that this guy didn't need his meds, either. If his disease doesn't even need medication to control it anymore, we have to wonder whether he really needed the very generous concessions he got for the MCAT.
 
Right on, tms.

VienneseWaltz, you don't seem qualified to make a medical judgment about whether somoene "needs" their medication or does not. If you do not have ADHD, then it is impossible to know what it's like. Having to sit for an exam for an entire day is an entirely different situation than taking a one or two hour exam in college. I don't take medication for ADHD for regular exams, however, there is no way I could sit for the MCAT without taking my meds.
 
I'm not deciding whether anyone needs his meds or not. MY FRIEND said he didn't need his meds, as did bigbuddieMD's friend. If they don't need their meds, do they need special concessions in test-taking procedure? That was the topic here until the last several posts got off-track.

The fact is, as pre-meds, we all know people who would be willing to do something dishonest to get an edge for med school. Getting a doctor to prescribe Ritalin isn't all that hard. I'm not saying that everyone who gets concessions for the MCAT doesn't deserve them, but it is certainly a possibility that at least some of the people who get concessions (really, 2 days to take the test?) do not really need them, or do not need them to that degree.
 
ok....A couple of things...It is really difficult to get special consideration for AMCAS. In my case (also ADD) I requested to wear earplugs during the MCAT - Mind you they give out ear plugs when you take the boards- and in order to do this their were some serious hurdles to jump through.

I also tend to agree with those who said more time is unfair. As someone who has issues with ADD, test taking anxiety, time constraints, etc. I felt the MCAT was really difficult but that was the format/timing was the hardest thing. I agree with the poster who said that having two days to take the test makes it much easier.

I think I would have done much better having more time on the MCAT but not just because I have a hard time taking tests - I think more time for anyone could be really helpful.
 
I'd like to clarify something. Everyone here might not realize that studies have found that normal people who take Ritalin perform exceptionally well on tests. While people with ADD/ADHD might need Ritalin to perform normally, people without these diseases sometimes "dope" on Ritalin to get an edge for standardized tests like the SAT or MCAT. I think most of us would agree that this is NOT fair. By all means, anyone who needs medicine (be it Ritalin, insulin, Advair, Zyrtec, Zoloft, etc) to function normally ought to take it. My problem with my friend's behavior is that, by his own admission, he no longer needed Ritalin for the SAT or any other test--he freely admitted he was doping for the purposes of getting a high score, which he did.
 
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