Apply agian...or give up already?

[Leukocyte]

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Dear fellow peers,

I am Family Medicine physician who is fellowship trained in preventive medicine and public health (with an MPH). My experience is in acute ambulatory medicine and urgent care, and have been working as an urgent care physician for the past 3 years since graduation from residency.

Problem is I am not very interested in FM, public health, nor urgent care. I do not see myself working as a FM doc in the long term. I want to be a Radiologist or a Pathologist (as a back-up). I have applied to Radiology and Pathology residencies 3 times now since graduating from my FM residency...but I never get any interviews. When I applied I had no radiology or pathology LORs (only FM LORs from my former faculty). My Stats are:

-IMG
-Average USMLE scores (failed Step 2 once)
-No Radiology LORs
-No Publications

Do you think I should apply again for Radiology residencies in the next Match round this year? Will my probability of success increase if I apply again in this Match season with a few Radiology LORs? Or should I just see the writing on the wall, and give up?

Any advice is appreciated. Thank You.

 

[rule out normal]

Dear fellow peers,

I am Family Medicine physician who is fellowship trained in preventive medicine and public health (with an MPH). My experience is in acute ambulatory medicine and urgent care, and have been working as an urgent care physician for the past 3 years since graduation from residency.

Problem is I am not very interested in FM, public health, nor urgent care. I do not see myself working as a FM doc in the long term. I want to be a Radiologist or a Pathologist (as a back-up). I have applied to Radiology and Pathology residencies 3 times now since graduating from my FM residency...but I never get any interviews. When I applied I had no radiology or pathology LORs (only FM LORs from my former faculty). My Stats are:

-IMG
-Average USMLE scores (failed Step 2 once)
-No Radiology LORs
-No Publications

Do you think I should apply again for Radiology residencies in the next Match round this year? Will my probability of success increase if I apply again in this Match season with a few Radiology LORs? Or should I just see the writing on the wall, and give up?

Any advice is appreciated. Thank You.

Sorry to be blunt here, but did you randomly capitalize nouns in your personal statement?

 

[Baller MD]

Tough situation man. The odds are clearly stacked against you esp. since you applied 3 times already. If it were me, I would just grind it out in the position you are currently in right now or find another job opportunity elsewhere if it can be better. Keep in mind that you're going to lose money doing this too by going from an attending's salary to a resident's salary.

 

[radman123]

Have you asked for feedback from residency coordinators?

Be sure you want to undertake radiology. Visit some of the other discussions. If it is patient interaction you do not like than radiology will be better. Otherwise tread carefully. Consider administration or other non clinical jobs first.

The field is terribly glutted. Long shot to get a job right now in a decent place. Quality of few jobs available is poor with employee type jobs, night shifts, etc predominating.

Training is long and surprisingly difficult. There is an alarming trend towards doing 2 fellowships to compete for the best jobs.

Attending work at least in the community is very tough. Non stop cases with little time to breathe. Terrible hours with weekends, nights, holidays etc. in many practices. You will get burned out and your enjoyment of this field will fade with time. Not sure there is anything I could do non stop for 9 hours a day and like. Sitting is the new smoking and this field will have no scarcity of that.

Pay is still good for established rads but those who are coming out are seeing lower salaries and less vacation. Reimbursements keep going down. Little chance for independent practice and fewer opportunities for true partnerships.

 

[Baller MD]

Have you asked for feedback from residency coordinators?

Be sure you want to undertake radiology. Visit some of the other discussions. If it is patient interaction you do not like than radiology will be better. Otherwise tread carefully. Consider administration or other non clinical jobs first.

The field is terribly glutted. Long shot to get a job right now in a decent place. Quality of few jobs available is poor with employee type jobs, night shifts, etc predominating.

Training is long and surprisingly difficult. There is an alarming trend towards doing 2 fellowships to compete for the best jobs.

Attending work at least in the community is very tough. Non stop cases with little time to breathe. Terrible hours with weekends, nights, holidays etc. in many practices. You will get burned out and your enjoyment of this field will fade with time. Not sure there is anything I could do non stop for 9 hours a day and like. Sitting is the new smoking and this field will have no scarcity of that.

Pay is still good for established rads but those who are coming out are seeing lower salaries and less vacation. Reimbursements keep going down. Little chance for independent practice and fewer opportunities for true partnerships.

What field would you recommend to average medical students who can't match into the big guns like Derm, Ortho, Rad Onc, etc.?

 

[radman123]

What field would you recommend to average medical students who can't match into the big guns like Derm, Ortho, Rad Onc, etc.?

I am approaching mid career status. If I could go back would seriously consider not doing medicine. Radiology has been good to me financially but I came out when things were better, much lower debt than average, and live frugally. Likely would turn out much worse if I came out last 4 years or so. I am increasingly becoming dissatisfied with the field and my job. I look forward to the day when I reach financial independence and can cut back hours or walk away, I can not recommend radiology in its current form to medical students. I do not see it changing any time soon. Sorry for the pessimism but I am being honest.

With that being said, choosing a field for current med students is a compromise like many things. If I was an average med student, I would choose a field that would give me job location and practice type flexibility. A field that has not had these crazy boom and bust cycles. A field that can not be outsourced to the lowest bidder, sometimes hundreds of miles away. A field that can not be taken over easily by pseudo doctors.

 

[Substance]

I am approaching mid career status. If I could go back would seriously consider not doing medicine. Radiology has been good to me financially but I came out when things were better, much lower debt than average, and live frugally. Likely would turn out much worse if I came out last 4 years or so. I am increasingly becoming dissatisfied with the field and my job. I look forward to the day when I reach financial independence and can cut back hours or walk away, I can not recommend radiology in its current form to medical students. I do not see it changing any time soon. Sorry for the pessimism but I am being honest.

With that being said, choosing a field for current med students is a compromise like many things. If I was an average med student, I would choose a field that would give me job location and practice type flexibility. A field that has not had these crazy boom and bust cycles. A field that can not be outsourced to the lowest bidder, sometimes hundreds of miles away. A field that can not be taken over easily by pseudo doctors.

gen surg then?

 

[tco]

Sorry to be blunt here, but did you randomly capitalize nouns in your personal statement?

Capitalizing fields in medicine shows respect for the field. I did it every time I wrote "Radiology" in my personal statement. Also, The Match is proper.

Also, what does this have to do with the OPs question? Or were you just trying to be sly and hint at the fact that they might not have good grammar?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[radman123]

gen surg then?

Like I said a compromise, no perfect choice. If I was not derm or surg. subspecialty material, would look into psych, PMR, EM, FM/IM, occ. med. Gen surg. has a low ROI for the effort in my opinion.

 

[DermViser]

What field would you recommend to average medical students who can't match into the big guns like Derm, Ortho, Rad Onc, etc.?

PM&R

 

[Baller MD]

PM&R

I frequent the PM&R forum sometime and apparently the job market isn't so hot?

 

[DermViser]

I frequent the PM&R forum sometime and apparently the job market isn't so hot?

Funny, I got the exact opposite impression.

 

[Baller MD]

Funny, I got the exact opposite impression.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/pm-r-job-market-in-ca.1073334/

According to that it seems like it's hard to find a job in a desirable location.

 

[DermViser]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/pm-r-job-market-in-ca.1073334/

According to that it seems like it's hard to find a job in a desirable location.

Unless you're doing primary care (and even then), all jobs will be harder to find in California.

 

[Substance]

Dear fellow peers,

I am Family Medicine physician who is fellowship trained in preventive medicine and public health (with an MPH). My experience is in acute ambulatory medicine and urgent care, and have been working as an urgent care physician for the past 3 years since graduation from residency.

Problem is I am not very interested in FM, public health, nor urgent care. I do not see myself working as a FM doc in the long term. I want to be a Radiologist or a Pathologist (as a back-up). I have applied to Radiology and Pathology residencies 3 times now since graduating from my FM residency...but I never get any interviews. When I applied I had no radiology or pathology LORs (only FM LORs from my former faculty). My Stats are:

-IMG
-Average USMLE scores (failed Step 2 once)
-No Radiology LORs
-No Publications

Do you think I should apply again for Radiology residencies in the next Match round this year? Will my probability of success increase if I apply again in this Match season with a few Radiology LORs? Or should I just see the writing on the wall, and give up?

Any advice is appreciated. Thank You.

rads is in a slump now so you should be able to get into a low quality appalachian program with those stats. that step 2 fail is concerning.

 

[Baller MD]

Unless you're doing primary care (and even then), all jobs will be harder to find in California.

What do you think is good about PM&R? Also, what are your thoughts on psych and anesthesia?

 

[Kaputt]

What do you think is good about PM&R? Also, what are your thoughts on psych and anesthesia?

Pick a specialty you like, not the one that has the ideal lifestyle or job market currently. Things can change drastically for lots of specialties in 5 years.

Derm is essentially the most (if only) immune specialty because they can do whatever the heck they want since there is demand and you can always just stick to cosmetic issues.

 

[shark2000]

What do you think is good about PM&R? Also, what are your thoughts on psych and anesthesia?

If you are choosing between radiology, general surgery, anesthesiology, PM&R and .... you either don't know yourself or don't know medicine.

The way you are choosing your residency, the likelihood of being happy in the future is less than 5%.

 

[Baller MD]

Common guys. Stop BS.
If you tell me


If you are choosing between radiology, general surgery, anesthesiology, PM&R and .... you either don't know yourself or don't know medicine.

The way you are choosing your residency, the likelihood of being happy in the future is less than 5%.

I'm only a M2 at the moment. Chances are, I'll probably narrow it down by the end of 3rd year. Besides, what's wrong with going in with an open mind?

 

[shark2000]

I'm only a M2 at the moment. Chances are, I'll probably narrow it down by the end of 3rd year. Besides, what's wrong with going in with an open mind?

Oops, Sorry I was wrong. I though you are applying now and still thinking.

If you are MS2, then you have to keep your options open and what you do is the right thing to do.

 

[Taurus]

Dear fellow peers,

I am Family Medicine physician who is fellowship trained in preventive medicine and public health (with an MPH). My experience is in acute ambulatory medicine and urgent care, and have been working as an urgent care physician for the past 3 years since graduation from residency.

Problem is I am not very interested in FM, public health, nor urgent care. I do not see myself working as a FM doc in the long term. I want to be a Radiologist or a Pathologist (as a back-up). I have applied to Radiology and Pathology residencies 3 times now since graduating from my FM residency...but I never get any interviews. When I applied I had no radiology or pathology LORs (only FM LORs from my former faculty). My Stats are:

-IMG
-Average USMLE scores (failed Step 2 once)
-No Radiology LORs
-No Publications

Do you think I should apply again for Radiology residencies in the next Match round this year? Will my probability of success increase if I apply again in this Match season with a few Radiology LORs? Or should I just see the writing on the wall, and give up?

Any advice is appreciated. Thank You.

Since your question wasn't clearly addressed, I'll pipe up.

Radiology PD's don't give a horse's a** about LOR from radiologists. They're useless because a radiologist cannot really gauge how well you perform because most non-radiologists have minimal training in interpreting imaging studies. Most med students or non-radiology residents sit next to the radiologist and try their best to look interested without falling asleep. If anything, most radiologists like me get annoyed if you make a peep. So the non-radiologist adds ZERO value except to shoot the breeze and talk about the basketball game last night.

Therefore, the writing is on the wall. For many reasons, radiology is not desperate enough to want to even send you one invitation. There's still enough interest from med students.

Try pathology but the job market for that is god awful.

 

[CopperStripes]

Dear fellow peers,

I am Family Medicine physician who is fellowship trained in preventive medicine and public health (with an MPH). My experience is in acute ambulatory medicine and urgent care, and have been working as an urgent care physician for the past 3 years since graduation from residency.

I find it surprising that, with your experiences, you have no interest in applying your preventive medicine training to a career. The field is so broad, and there are a lot of jobs that don't have much (or any) of direct patient care (which is seems that you're looking for, as you're interested in rads and path). Just some examples - medical director for a health insurance company, medical writer, safety/pharmacovigilance for a pharma company, any number of physician positions in health IT or informatics, medical officer with any part of HHS (FDA, CDC, CMS...). None of those appeal to you??

Just seems like you're spending a lot of time chasing after another residency when you could be trying out real jobs that not only give you experience but help you figure out exactly what type of role and job setting would be ideal.

 

[Lavan]

What field would you recommend to average medical students who can't match into the big guns like Derm, Ortho, Rad Onc, etc.?

Psychiatry is extremely underrated as career choice due to physician-physician stigma. I would highly consider it.

 

[shark2000]

Psychiatry is extremely underrated as career choice due to physician-physician stigma. I would highly consider it.

It is a real life style field, is in high demand, you can get job wherever you like and the pay is good. But it needs its own personality. Not for everyone.
I never liked it. But, if it fits your personality, then go for it. Better than many other fields. My suggestion: Don't give a $hit about what other people think or say about you. You live once and you have to choose what you like.

 

[DermViser]

There's still enough interest from med students.

I wonder why that is.

 

[radman123]

I wonder why that is.

High salaries listed on surveys for established rads ( No surveys I know of for those coming out last 5 years.)

Can get away from the drudgery of clinical medicine.

Love the rotation and its hours.

Think technology is cool.

Rad attendings are so laid back when I am around them.

Looking at pictures is way cooler than getting an h&p from an 80 year old.

Doctors cant be unemployed or have terrible jobs- bad job market is not real. All the fellows got jobs... just trolls on auntminnie and here like me perpetuating this falsehood.

System will take care of me. Can not be unemployed or have low salary for such a long residency especially with these huge loans. Rads still make more coming out than primary care and many other specialists (not for long).

What can be bad or hard about reading films right?

It will be so cool to be in peace and quiet reading films at a leisurely pace. Or better yet, on a tropical island in my flip flops on the beach.

I will be a specialist which is better than a generalist.

IR is so cool. You can do surgery without the pain of residency.

The hours are great. It is a friendly lifestyle field.

 

[DermViser]

High salaries listed on surveys for established rads ( No surveys I know of for those coming out last 5 years.)

Can get away from the drudgery of clinical medicine.

Love the rotation and its hours.

Think technology is cool.

Rad attendings are so laid back when I am around them.

Looking at pictures is way cooler than getting an h&p from an 80 year old.

Doctors cant be unemployed or have terrible jobs- bad job market is not real. All the fellows got jobs... just trolls on auntminnie and here like me perpetuating this falsehood.

System will take care of me. Can not be unemployed or have low salary for such a long residency especially with these huge loans. Rads still make more coming out than primary care and many other specialists (not for long).

What can be bad or hard about reading films right?

It will be so cool to be in peace and quiet reading films at a leisurely pace. Or better yet, on a tropical island in my flip flops on the beach.

I will be a specialist which is better than a generalist.

IR is so cool. You can do surgery without the pain of residency.

The hours are great. It is a friendly lifestyle field.

I realize some of your reasons are tongue-in-cheek, but why do you @radman123, hate it so much? Would you rather do General IM or even worse, Hospitalist?

 

[samurai7]

I realize some of your reasons are tongue-in-cheek, but why do you @radman123, hate it so much? Would you rather do General IM or even worse, Hospitalist?

This guy (radman123) is just an a** trying to scare away competition from this wonderful field. Do not listen to him if there are any med students out there considering radiology as a career. Each and every graduating fellow from my program has landed a job within an hours drive from their preferred location. Most of them have been 300k+ with some even touching 400k.

The job market is tight but there are plenty of jobs out there provided you are willing to show some flexibility. And please, do not let people talk you away from the field. The job market is tight but nearly not as bad as some people on this forum are making it seem like.

Thank You

 

[DermViser]

This guy (radman123) is just an a** trying to scare away competition from this wonderful field. Do not listen to him if there are any med students out there considering radiology as a career. Each and every graduating fellow from my program has landed a job within an hours drive from their preferred location. Most of them have been 300k+ with some even touching 400k.

The job market is tight but there are plenty of jobs out there provided you are willing to show some flexibility. And please, do not let people talk you away from the field. The job market is tight but nearly not as bad as some people on this forum are making it seem like.

Thank You

But if I'm not mistaken, @radman123 is an attending. I understand however job prospects can vary greatly for rads now based on:

1) The specific residency program one graduates from -- university vs. a no-name community hospital
2) The specific fellowship one gets which is affected by 1), since it seems like a fellowship has now become an unsaid requirement to getting a job.

 

[greg1184]

Theres always working at McDs as I wait for the job market to open.