Applying for specialty you overqualify for

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JP2740

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What is the general opinion on this? Would you do it, what do you think about the people who do it?

Let's just take an example like you get above 250 on Step 1 and apply for peds? You get the point of the thread (I am M1 and haven't taken anything, so this doesn't apply to me!).
 
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JP2740 said:
What is the general opinion on this? Would you do it, what do you think about the people who do it?

Let's just take an example like you get above 250 on Step 1 and apply for peds? You get the point of the thread (I am M1 and haven't taken anything, so this doesn't apply to me!).
Click to expand...

There's no such thing as overqualified. You should apply to whatever field you can see yourself in 20 years from now. Your board score shouldn't determine your interests.
 
southernIM said:
There's no such thing as overqualified. You should apply to whatever field you can see yourself in 20 years from now. Your board score shouldn't determine your interests.
Click to expand...
Exactly. A 250+ may very well open up doors in any specialty, but if you don't want to practice in one of the more competitive specialties... why would you try to match into one?
 
I've heard it go both ways. Some people think if you are a 250+ step1/step2 with multiple pubs and you apply to a community program you are taking it as a backup. Others suggest that this is non-sense. I think if you are a 250+, 4.0 GPA, multiple pubs going into peds/family/psych/whatever that isnt' competitive or you want to go to a small, less prestigious program in a more competitive specialty, a program would be remiss to not invite you for an interview. Once you are there, you just have to explain that the program is where you want to be.

Don't sweat it, just worry about getting great grades this year. Then focus on summer. Then on M2. Then Step1.....you see the trend. There isnt a lot of sense in worry about things that are outside of your control for the time being while you have plenty to do.

Whether or not you are religious, I think this is particularly germane:

Matt 6:34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Good luck!
 
JP2740 said:
What is the general opinion on this? Would you do it, what do you think about the people who do it?

Let's just take an example like you get above 250 on Step 1 and apply for peds? You get the point of the thread (I am M1 and haven't taken anything, so this doesn't apply to me!).
Click to expand...

The top programs of all specialties are filled with applicants that, by your definition, are overqualified. As others have said, there is no such thing.
 
JP2740 said:
What is the general opinion on this? Would you do it, what do you think about the people who do it?

Let's just take an example like you get above 250 on Step 1 and apply for peds? You get the point of the thread (I am M1 and haven't taken anything, so this doesn't apply to me!).
Click to expand...

Wow you sound like an M1. Seriously, a score on exam makes you "overqualified" to practice a type of medicine. Huh, I'm going to see if I can just "test-out" of residency then.
 
JP2740 said:
What is the general opinion on this? Would you do it, what do you think about the people who do it?

Let's just take an example like you get above 250 on Step 1 and apply for peds? You get the point of the thread (I am M1 and haven't taken anything, so this doesn't apply to me!).
Click to expand...

Dude, you need to outgrow this whole "I'm going to go for the most prestige I can get" mentality and start to realize that it doesn't matter. You need to pick a field you enjoy. That's the point now. The game has changed. At most med schools some of the top percentile of every med school will go into less competitive fields, like IM. Could they get derm? Absolutely. Could they get rad onc? Absolutely. Then why did they pick IM? Because it's what they want to do for a living. They still may need a top score to train at a better program within that field, but there is no point spending the next 40 years of your life at a job you don't find interesting because somehow you feel that your board scores qualify you. Please. Nobody can be this naive, but if you are, third year probably will be a wake- up call.
 
JP2740 said:
What is the general opinion on this? Would you do it, what do you think about the people who do it?

Let's just take an example like you get above 250 on Step 1 and apply for peds? You get the point of the thread (I am M1 and haven't taken anything, so this doesn't apply to me!).
Click to expand...

248 Step I, 252 Step II, All honors in everything (except surgery). I am a resident in internal medicine. I am not at a name brand school (Yale, harvard, UCSF, etc).

You choose the field that you want, the field that feels the way you feel, that lets you do what you want to do. You will choose the program that feels right. Their morals match yours. Their purpose matches yours. If the direction and purpose of the field matches with your direction and purpose, then it is irrelevant what your scores are.

"Overqualified" means "has really high scores so won't get screened out of a competitive speciality." Often people who are "overqualified" are infromation machines, memorizes, and people who do well on multiple choice exams. This often does not correlate to real life. So someone might be "overqualified" and end up sucking in their "easy" field (I see this often in medicine), whereas someone might be "underqualified" by scores, and end up dominating in their chosen field (I see this, in particular, with one surgery intern this year).

I built my resume as if I was going into Optho. I cared about my board scores, I cared about my class rank, I cared about getting honors, I got research and I got published. Why? Just in case. Then, when I applied to residency in "easy medicine" people looked at my resume and say "well, if THAT guy wants to come to OUR program, lets take him! He's totally overqualified!" and I won. Sure I got interviews at some (definitely not many) of the name brand places, but I ended up choosing where values matched.

And I love it.
 
DreamingTheLive said:
Wow you sound like an M1. Seriously, a score on exam makes you "overqualified" to practice a type of medicine. Huh, I'm going to see if I can just "test-out" of residency then.
Click to expand...

I put overqualify in " " so that people wouldn't make assumptions. I'm just asking about people's opinions on it because the question has crossed my mind before. I obviously don't mean you over-qualify to practice a certain type of medicine. I have a feeling less people would take it wrong if I said if you are way above the averages for the field?
 
OveractiveBrain said:
248 Step I, 252 Step II, All honors in everything (except surgery). I am a resident in internal medicine. I am not at a name brand school (Yale, harvard, UCSF, etc).

You choose the field that you want, the field that feels the way you feel, that lets you do what you want to do. You will choose the program that feels right. Their morals match yours. Their purpose matches yours. If the direction and purpose of the field matches with your direction and purpose, then it is irrelevant what your scores are.

"Overqualified" means "has really high scores so won't get screened out of a competitive speciality." Often people who are "overqualified" are infromation machines, memorizes, and people who do well on multiple choice exams. This often does not correlate to real life. So someone might be "overqualified" and end up sucking in their "easy" field (I see this often in medicine), whereas someone might be "underqualified" by scores, and end up dominating in their chosen field (I see this, in particular, with one surgery intern this year).

I built my resume as if I was going into Optho. I cared about my board scores, I cared about my class rank, I cared about getting honors, I got research and I got published. Why? Just in case. Then, when I applied to residency in "easy medicine" people looked at my resume and say "well, if THAT guy wants to come to OUR program, lets take him! He's totally overqualified!" and I won. Sure I got interviews at some (definitely not many) of the name brand places, but I ended up choosing where values matched.

And I love it.
Click to expand...

How did you pinpoint the program that was just right for you? Was that finalized after the interview, or is there more than enough information out there on programs to make a decision like that?

I agree with you on a lot of your ideas.
 
OveractiveBrain said:
248 Step I, 252 Step II, All honors in everything (except surgery). I am a resident in internal medicine. I am not at a name brand school (Yale, harvard, UCSF, etc).

You choose the field that you want, the field that feels the way you feel, that lets you do what you want to do. You will choose the program that feels right. Their morals match yours. Their purpose matches yours. If the direction and purpose of the field matches with your direction and purpose, then it is irrelevant what your scores are.

"Overqualified" means "has really high scores so won't get screened out of a competitive speciality." Often people who are "overqualified" are infromation machines, memorizes, and people who do well on multiple choice exams. This often does not correlate to real life. So someone might be "overqualified" and end up sucking in their "easy" field (I see this often in medicine), whereas someone might be "underqualified" by scores, and end up dominating in their chosen field (I see this, in particular, with one surgery intern this year).

I built my resume as if I was going into Optho. I cared about my board scores, I cared about my class rank, I cared about getting honors, I got research and I got published. Why? Just in case. Then, when I applied to residency in "easy medicine" people looked at my resume and say "well, if THAT guy wants to come to OUR program, lets take him! He's totally overqualified!" and I won. Sure I got interviews at some (definitely not many) of the name brand places, but I ended up choosing where values matched.

And I love it.
Click to expand...

Nice post. You're almost always spot on w/ your posts. I'll be coming to you for advice as I get further along! Doing it this way makes the most sense. Just be the best you can be and go where you feel is right. I'd have to go in to a specialty I love. I would never choose a specialty just because of money or prestige if I hated it. You've gotta enjoy going to work everyday.
 
JP2740 said:
I put overqualify in " " so that people wouldn't make assumptions. I'm just asking about people's opinions on it because the question has crossed my mind before. I obviously don't mean you over-qualify to practice a certain type of medicine. I have a feeling less people would take it wrong if I said if you are way above the averages for the field?
Click to expand...

Averages are in the middle of a range. Some large chunk of people will be above average. That's how averages work.

Also, within any given specialty, there are more and less competitive programs. If you feel like you're hot **** for IM or peds or whatever, why not aim for Mayo or MGH or somesuch? I guarantee you won't be overqualified amongst their candidate pool.
 
I heard that if you apply to community programs in less competitive specialties with a 250+ on Step 1, the PD personally comes and picks you up from the airport....

...Anyone else heard something like it?
 
Rollo said:
I heard that if you apply to community programs in less competitive specialties with a 250+ on Step 1, the PD personally comes and picks you up from the airport....

...Anyone else heard something like it?
Click to expand...

Yeah. Then I took one of the life-flight choppers directly to 'the pad' and all the attendings stood outside, clapping, as I walked in.
 
FSU2013 said:
I've heard it go both ways. Some people think if you are a 250+ step1/step2 with multiple pubs and you apply to a community program you are taking it as a backup. Others suggest that this is non-sense. I think if you are a 250+, 4.0 GPA, multiple pubs going into peds/family/psych/whatever that isnt' competitive or you want to go to a small, less prestigious program in a more competitive specialty, a program would be remiss to not invite you for an interview. Once you are there, you just have to explain that the program is where you want to be.

Don't sweat it, just worry about getting great grades this year. Then focus on summer. Then on M2. Then Step1.....you see the trend. There isnt a lot of sense in worry about things that are outside of your control for the time being while you have plenty to do.

Whether or not you are religious, I think this is particularly germane:

Matt 6:34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

I faced that while applying for radiology this year. I applied to 45 programs and had a pre-invite rank list based on prestige/competitiveness and location (to make it easier to make decisions when faced with conflicting dates). I got 13 of my top 30 and only 1 of my bottom 15 (and many were in my region). Of course I wasn't overqualified for those programs but they may have correctly assumed they were lower on my list and that's why they decided not to offer me an interview.
 
tunechi said:
Yeah. Then I took one of the life-flight choppers directly to 'the pad' and all the attendings stood outside, clapping, as I walked in.
Click to expand...

I heard some places will give you (250+ scorer) a nice piece of filet mignon for lunch while all the other *******es who scored <220 get McDonald's chicken nuggets....

...is this true?
 
Rollo said:
I heard some places will give you (250+ scorer) a nice piece of filet mignon for lunch while all the other *******es who scored <220 get McDonald's chicken nuggets....

...is this true?
Click to expand...

Yeah. And they had to sit at the peds table while the grown ups talked doctor stuff
 
JP2740 said:
I put overqualify in " " so that people wouldn't make assumptions. I'm just asking about people's opinions on it because the question has crossed my mind before. I obviously don't mean you over-qualify to practice a certain type of medicine. I have a feeling less people would take it wrong if I said if you are way above the averages for the field?
Click to expand...

There's no such thing as "overqualified for the field". This is implying that on average, ALL people from a certain specialty are somehow brighter and better than ALL people from another specialty and that's just ridiculous. People at the top of the field are going to be the world's best and brightest, regardless of what specialty you're looking at. Furthermore, this phenomenon of competitive self-selection into certain specialties is reflective of recent trends and the "lifestyle specialties" tend to shift over one's career as new technology/costs/reimbursements change. For example, 25 years ago, radiology and GI were not nearly as desirable as they are to applicants today. Therefore it only makes sense to pick fields based on your interest in them as you have no idea how they will evolve over the course of your career, especially with regards to lifestyle and income.
 
Rollo said:
I heard some places will give you (250+ scorer) a nice piece of filet mignon for lunch while all the other *******es who scored <220 get McDonald's chicken nuggets....

...is this true?
Click to expand...
That's actually a trick--if you pick the filet they know you're a cocky sonofabitch. I chose the mcnuggets and afterward the chair told me that's how they knew I was the one.
 
Rollo said:
I heard some places will give you (250+ scorer) a nice piece of filet mignon for lunch while all the other *******es who scored <220 get McDonald's chicken nuggets....

...is this true?
Click to expand...


Actually heard something similar. If, god forbid, you score sub 200 then I heard they had a 220er cut your nuggets into bit sized pieces lest you forget to chew....
 
JP2740 said:
What is the general opinion on this? Would you do it, what do you think about the people who do it?

Let's just take an example like you get above 250 on Step 1 and apply for peds? You get the point of the thread (I am M1 and haven't taken anything, so this doesn't apply to me!).
Click to expand...
You're going to need more than a >250 step score to get into some "less competitive specialty" residency programs (even peds!)

Try matching at a place like CHOP
 
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Some of the most "overqualified" applicants on paper have the personality of a wet sock so even they have troubles getting into some "less prestigious" specialties. Just food for thought.
 
I would and did do it. Every specialty needs smart people, and as many have already pointed out there is no such thing as overqualified.

Again, it comes down to doing what you love. Personally I would find it weird if you loved PM&R but decided that your board scores 'forced' you into doing an optho residency that you weren't too excited about. It really only makes sense the other way around.
 
I know an attending at U of M that scored over 260 on her step1, and chose to do a pediatric residency (at U of M). Even though she could have done something far more competitive, that would have a higher salary, so she wouldn't be getting crushed by her tremendous loans, she wanted to do peds because she wanted to help kids. No idea if she'll go for a fellowship, but atm, I don't think she's going after anything, and is happy (well as happy as you can be working her insane hours).
 
mishaS said:
I know an attending at U of M that scored over 260 on her step1, and chose to do a pediatric residency (at U of M). Even though she could have done something far more competitive, that would have a higher salary, so she wouldn't be getting crushed by her tremendous loans, she wanted to do peds because she wanted to help kids. No idea if she'll go for a fellowship, but atm, I don't think she's going after anything, and is happy (well as happy as you can be working her insane hours).
Click to expand...
That warmed the cockles of my heart.
 
xanthomondo said:
You're going to need more than a >250 step score to get into some "less competitive specialty" residency programs (even peds!)

Try matching at a place like CHOP
Click to expand...

This. I have my sights set on a less competitive specialty (realizing, of course, that I may change my mind in the next year as I go through rotations), but my dream residency is at one of the top hospitals (in this field) in the country, which means it will likely be as competitive as some of the more competitive specialties. Even moreso because it's the only residency program in that specialty in the state.
 
lol @ letting your step1 score decide your future career
 
FSU2013 said:
I've heard it go both ways. Some people think if you are a 250+ step1/step2 with multiple pubs and you apply to a community program you are taking it as a backup. Others suggest that this is non-sense. I think if you are a 250+, 4.0 GPA, multiple pubs going into peds/family/psych/whatever that isnt' competitive or you want to go to a small, less prestigious program in a more competitive specialty, a program would be remiss to not invite you for an interview. Once you are there, you just have to explain that the program is where you want to be.
Click to expand...

If it were just a couple of applicants with those stats, it would most likely be the case. The problem is that even the community programs get hammered with high end apps as backups. These programs have to make interview decisions with the highest yield for the limited number of spots and interview days they have. Every stellar applicant that goes to the interview of a "lower quality" program takes that interview spot away from someone else and may just put it on the bottom of an excessively long ROL for safety. If they have too many applicants that do that, the program runs the risk of not matching slots and possibly nobody or a scramble taking that slot.

It is a definite risk/reward scenario for many programs.
 
MossPoh said:
If it were just a couple of applicants with those stats, it would most likely be the case. The problem is that even the community programs get hammered with high end apps as backups. These programs have to make interview decisions with the highest yield for the limited number of spots and interview days they have. Every stellar applicant that goes to the interview of a "lower quality" program takes that interview spot away from someone else and may just put it on the bottom of an excessively long ROL for safety. If they have too many applicants that do that, the program runs the risk of not matching slots and possibly nobody or a scramble taking that slot.

It is a definite risk/reward scenario for many programs.
Click to expand...

Yeah we went over this extensively in the Rads applicants thread. Programs outside of the good to great programs in good locations do have to yield protect when sending out invites. They need a good number of interviewees who will actually rank them highly. This strategy can ead to an interesting mix of rejections and invites. I believe regional bias is much more rampant at mid tiers than top tiers because the top tiers know/think they can get whoever to come.

There are a few programs who just take the shotgun approach and will interview ~150 folks for like 6 spots.
 
mishaS said:
I know an attending at U of M that scored over 260 on her step1, and chose to do a pediatric residency (at U of M). Even though she could have done something far more competitive, that would have a higher salary, so she wouldn't be getting crushed by her tremendous loans, she wanted to do peds because she wanted to help kids. No idea if she'll go for a fellowship, but atm, I don't think she's going after anything, and is happy (well as happy as you can be working her insane hours).
Click to expand...

The year I started med school, one of our 4th years who apparently had the highest step 1 in the country (I think it was 285 or higher, can't remember the exact #) chose to do family medicine.
 
Although I was near the top of my class, I had to to my residency in Family Medicine, because of (Canadian) military commitments. I haven't looked back since. There is a lot more excitement in my field that can be seen in most other specialties. Also, because of military commitments, I have to work the ED in civilian hospitals, where I meet challenging and, sometimes, flat-out bizare cases. I also moonlight at a local jail for more experience and $uch. The pay is still pretty good, the bennifits are outstanding and I have none of the worries of running a business. I could have specialised after four years, but chose promotion and added re$ponsibilitie$ instead. I cannot imagine staring at film and computer screens, doing gas, chipping at bone and screwing plates, or removing warts and injecting tetracycline in zits all day, regarless of the salary. So I would say you are not over-qualified for any residency.
 
I have nothing against family medicine and I think their knowledge base is fantastic.

But, I wonder how one could chose FM right now. Medicine is moving towards specialization. Even sub-specialties are specializing more today than ever.
 
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